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another WAR 2003 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 4th March 2003
  #211
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 

One last thing, I'm watching the news right now.
Apparently Turkey has been victim of a little crash on it's financial market.
This was caused by a sanction from US that decided to stop trading (buying) with Turkey because they refuse to allow US military to stand on their country. I need more time to think of it, but I'll let you discuss about that new event ... Really gotta go ...

malice
Old 4th March 2003
  #212
Turning down $30 billion!

back to this

"In the USA, is the populous vibe:

Bin Laden & his cronies planned and commited the Sept 11th atrocities
We didn't get him for certain in Afghanistan.
We must have revenge, liberating Afghanistan wasn't enough.
Saddam is a well known Arab baddie, lets get him instead.
We claim that as our rightful vengeance.

???
------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is wrong.
The U.S. intentions to take care of terrorist states was declared soon after 9/11 and prior to Afghanistan.
This is a long term policy.
Prevention is the best medicine.
If you want peace..prepare for war.
The U.S. has been sustaining hits for awhile now....U.S.S. Cole, African embassies, etc...and then 9/11..and now that terrorism can hit us at home we have decided to nip it in the bud...."

The Sept 11th atrocities were perpetrated by a terrorist GROUP, not state!

There was no logical jump to Bush pulling out a list of world leaders he doesn't like post Sept 11 saying "and we are going after these guys too". It is clear that the US are now using Sept 11th and the terrorist group attacks listed above, as some sort of validation to kick 'general ass' worldwide. There is a huge risk to that policy. Especially if it becomes clear that controlling oil is more of a priority than the "world justice" advertised.

There are a lot of positive qualities in the list American character, pioneering spirit, generosity, warmth, friendliness, ambition, bravery. But I don't really see "resilience to being hated world wide" as a strong point. From a global viewpoint, one of the less attractive American character qualities is the "we are number one" vibe. This situation is changing. I think Iconic images of US popularity world wide like an African tribesman smiling having just drunk a can of Coke or Russian students biting into a McDonalds may get relegated to to history books. There are simply parts of the world where a Mc bacon double cheese burger, coke & fries ain't ever gonna be on the menu!

Julian Standen is an American living in London since 1968, with no wife, no kids, and lots of dirty laundry. He also writes for the Why Cant I Sleep? gazette and Coffee Lovers monthly.
Old 4th March 2003
  #213
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Julian Standen is an American living in London since 1968, with no wife, no kids, and lots of dirty laundry. He also writes for the Why Cant I Sleep? gazette and Coffee Lovers monthly.
Good post Jules, I agree with what you wrote.
Old 4th March 2003
  #214
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up


maybe somebodys shooting you in the head some day , cause he wanted your 7 bucks ... hrhrhr

WHAT YOU GIVE IS WHAT YOU GET
Maybe...no one gets out of here alive.

....you'll have to sneak upon me though.fuuck
Old 4th March 2003
  #215
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

"The Sept 11th atrocities were perpetrated by a terrorist GROUP, not state!"

Just because it doesn't fit with your paradigm doesn't mean that other people do not get it. Iraq, Iran, North Korea and some other states DO support terrorism. Lybia used to BIG time (and probably still does to a lesser)...until he got some sense nocked into him....

...If you are so blind to beleive that saddam lives in a vacuum and has no connections & supports terror, thats fine.

... So sit on you little couch, listen and work on your music...all afforded you by the sacrifice and creativity of the American People...Still The Greatest Country in The World
P.S....who gave ya' Rock 'n' Roll (surely not the germans.....ya' gotta have feel...)
Old 4th March 2003
  #216
Gear Head
 

saddam & terror

recorderman again:
"...If you are so blind to beleive that saddam lives in a vacuum and has no connections & supports terror, thats fine."

Here's the deal: the connections that the US govt. has made between Iraq and al Qaeda are few and rather tenuous at best. That chemical weapons plant in northern Iraq? Turned out to be a collection of ramshackle little buildings--no evidence of chemical weapons manufacturing. And how many Iraqis were among the 9/11 terrorists? Umm, none? Did you know that bin Laden has called S. Hussein "apostate" & various other less than wonderful things?

If you were to rank countries in order of their al Qaeda ties, Saudi Arabia would probably be number 1. Iraq is, as far as anyone knows (including the US govt.), at most an extremely minor player in the whole al Qaeda thing.

And yet, in spite of this lack of evidence, we're supposed to believe that Saddam is the root of all our current woes & must be dealt with. Why? Well, because Bush & co. say so, that's why.

more recorderman:
"... So sit on you little couch, listen and work on your music...all afforded you by the sacrifice and creativity of the American People..."


recorderman, don't get so wrapped up in the US's past glory to think that our govt. is incapable of a misstep. I think the US is a great country as well, and for that reason I'll not sit silently by while our govt. takes us ever closer to a war that is so incredibly hard to justify.
Old 4th March 2003
  #217
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Re: saddam & terror

Hodad are you still mad about the civil war?heh
Old 4th March 2003
  #218
Gear Head
 

Re: Re: saddam & terror

Quote:
Originally posted by recorderman
Hodad are you still mad about the civil war?heh

I don't know. Are you?
Old 4th March 2003
  #219
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Re: saddam & terror

Quote:
Originally posted by hodad
I don't know. Are you?
nah...I'm not mad....although I have family that fought on both sides of that one...couldn't make up their mind either....

...just so you know where I'm comin' from:
in college I was a memeber of Earth First, supported demonstrations against US involvement in El Savador, at the time. Former long time subscriber of KPFK (Pacifica radio in LA). Read tons and tons of books/tracts/articles/white papers by the likes of Chomsky, Michael Parenti, Dave Emory (boy...if you want to listen to the GOD of great conspiracy stuff...check out this guys research and tapes, ect http://archive.wfmu.org:5555/archive/DX/), Craig Hewlette, Helen Caldacott (spelling?Aussie anti-nuke doctor), ect.

...So...I was for most of my life where alot of you are at now...I just (in my opinion) grew up. I have four children here in LA. I realized that you don't live for ever...but you live on through your decendents..therefore, any one life is not as important as the majority. NAFTA, etc, amny things...to my local situation may not seem in the short term to be in MY best interest, per se, but I believe that in the long run...many if not most of the policies that the U.S. has suported are the right ones or the lesser of tw evils.

Do you seriously think that France, Germany & Russia give a **** about us going to war for any humanitarian reason? Come on...do jsut a little research...they have way more monetary incentive for their position than we do. Uor governments poilicy has been to pretty much look the other way, ect.
But 9/11 was the line. Once you cross it we will take you out.
Five years from now the overwhelming majority of people living in IRAQ will be thanking us...period.
For those of you in France and Germany (as well as Great Britian and the rest of europe)...do you seriously regret our "imperialist" agression and regime change of **** Germany? How about the Japanese...I don't here any regrets from sony-land.
Up until 9/11..when we had states as our adversaries, and since WWII when we were/are the only "deep water navy" (that is a millitary term refering to the ability to control the oceans outside of coastal control) we could afford a certain amount attcks. Our homelands were not threatened.
Remeber....how many of us (U.S.) felt threatened by terrorists before 9/11?
It's the same with the rest now. anyway...
....fun debate
Old 5th March 2003
  #220
Lives for gear
 

A couple of random thoughts and pieces of info.

Check THIS out. Apparently, there was a N Korean warhead from a missile test firing found in Alaska! The article states that the US has underestimated how advanced N Korea's missile technology is. FWIW, the article is from the Korean Times, and as such, displays somewhat the S Korean perspective, I would presume.

I really don't know what N Korea is playing at, but I think they want to make enough international worry to be paid to chill out. It worked in 1994. I believe their intensity and aggresiveness now is based primarily on their possesion of nuclear weapons. I don't see how the world can allow nuclear proliferation to continue without some big time kimchi hitting the fan sooner or later.

Also, the latest info from Pakistan (thank you guys for nabbing "the Brain") shows Iran is where Bin Laden's family has been given refuge. You know, the guys with the shiny new nuclear reactor, courtesy of the Russians. Yeah, they really need a nuclear reactor so they won't run out of energy, since they're already sitting on 10% of the world's total energy resources. No, they wouldn't think about doing anything naughty with that plutonium now, would they?

So Saddam has been building prohibited weapons (including missiles) and pays the suicide bomber's families, Iran is housing Bin Laden's family and cranking up it's own nuclear program, and an absolute dictator with a terminal bad hair day in N Korea is lobbing test missiles at Japan and the US while threatening to use nuclear weapons at any point he chooses.

For all the fun people want to make of President Bush, the "axis of evil" term looks pretty spot on to me, a year later.

Lastly, did you guys see the most recent poll from the UK today? It shows support for using force in Iraq is up at 75% in the UK now, FWIW.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 5th March 2003
  #221
Gear Head
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: saddam & terror

Quote:
Originally posted by recorderman

Five years from now the overwhelming majority of people living in IRAQ will be thanking us...period.
Just as the folks of Iran so graciously thanked us for our support of the Shah?

As to the "who benefits" question: I don't doubt France & Russia have financial reasons for their stand. They happen to be on the right side regardless. As to US benefits, you & I aren't gonna see squat, but VP Cheney's former employer Halliburton & the ubiquitous Bechtel are already negotiating for billions in contracts just to rebuild Iraq's oil infrastructure. More and more billions will go to other US oil interests as well.

Now, I think it's fair to say Bush & co. think they're doing what's "right" (according to Plato we all do what we think is "right"), but I also think it's fair to say Bush has a rather petro-centric world view--what's right for the oil bidness must be right for everybody. Now, Saddam is a nasty cat for sure, but he gets attention because of his position relative to the world's oil reserves. If he had the same weapons but were the leader of Papua New Guinea, he would be a mere blip on the radar.

Since Brian threw out tidbits, I have a couple too:

1. Though this may not be true today, as recently as six months ago well over half of Iraq's oil exports came to the US.

2. As to the axis of evil: to some extent that almost seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. (I personally think that North Korea was thrown in there to allow the use of that really cool catchphrase "axis of evil.") At the time of that particular speech North & South Korea were in the midst of some fairly serious talks about improving relations. Bush's description of N. Korea as "evil" pretty much put the kibosh on that. I tend to agree with Brian that Kim Jong Il is looking for a payoff. But I think that a much more graceful and meaningful payoff could have been engineered had Bush not needed a hot new buzzword.
Old 5th March 2003
  #222
I have come to realise overnight after watching a cool program on TV that most of my opinions are typical European ones.

With no cold war & with getting on well with most of our our neibours now, we arent scared of much. Including terrorism (which most europeans have experienced and gotten used to over the last 20 years (ETA, the IRA, Red Brigade, Bader Meinhof gang etc)

Add to this that we didnt ever like or appreciate the "my missile is bigger than yours" bul**** that the US and Russia got into during the cold war, particularly as we were always more in the fireing line for it all than the US.

Heres' a good quote. "If you have a big hammer (army), you tend to see all problems as nails. If you dont have a big hammer you dont like to see nails"

That, IMHO seems sum up pretty fairly, the pro war / US view and anti war / European view.

I guess I am a European American!

Sting? Write me a song on that!

Wo oh!
Old 5th March 2003
  #223
Here for the gear
 

Bush is a dumbass!

It is so frustrating to me that all of the millions of people in this country (US) that we couldn't come up with a better leader than this dillweed! I have no doubt that Saddam is a thug that should (or should have) been removed, but we don't have the support to do it now. If we do beat up on Iraq, then we are perceived as cocky, aggressive assholes. The majority of Americans don't want war, but Bush and his crew aren't willing to back down - I guess the money is spent (pronounced borrowed from future generations), and the troops are there. Might as well use them sense they are already in place. For the people, by the people eh??? I think Bush has forgotten that part of our history (maybe he never knew it).dfegad
Old 5th March 2003
  #224
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thats what i am saying jules ...

and recorderman ... ac/dc , rolling stones , led zeppelin , david bowie , the beatles, u2 ... ALL AMERICAN fuuck

the best country in the world so far is AMSTERDAM even if its just a city ... lol heh
i dont have nothing against america , to be honest , i like it a lot .
you are talking historical all the time , but you never talk about that the US was discovered by europeans ...
so dont talk that bad about europe ...
i mean you can if you want to ...

i stay on my lane ,

P E A C E is the way to go ...

if you want a war , go play nintendo heh
Old 5th March 2003
  #225
SawSlut
 
OzNimbus's Avatar
 

A friend of mine in the USAF forwarded this to me. Even though I'm a Canadian, I can certainly sympathise with the American's feelings.
Attached Thumbnails
another WAR 2003-frenchcoastline1.jpg  
Old 5th March 2003
  #226
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5down1up's Avatar
 

i am american , i am canadian , i am german , i am french , i am italian , i am african , i am chinese ... ???

i am white , i am black , i am yellow , i am red ????

i am i am i am i am i am i am ...



we are all the result of an average fun time from lets say 5 minutes . theres nothing special about that . heh


we come and we go , some of us earlier ... some of us later
Old 6th March 2003
  #227
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up
thats what i am saying jules ...

and recorderman ... ac/dc , rolling stones , led zeppelin , david bowie , the beatles, u2 ... ALL AMERICAN fuuck

the best country in the world so far is AMSTERDAM even if its just a city ... lol heh
i dont have nothing against america , to be honest , i like it a lot .
you are talking historical all the time , but you never talk about that the US was discovered by europeans ...
so dont talk that bad about europe ...
i mean you can if you want to ...

i stay on my lane ,

P E A C E is the way to go ...

if you want a war , go play nintendo heh
All of the groups you mentioned are (as all the rest of you are) fans and students of the american artforms: Jazz/R&B/Rock'n'Roll...there not palyin' Wagner or Debussy bro....get it?
We will remeber who our friends were....
go program some techno on your daw...fuuck
Peace comes from strength...it ALWAYS has.
Sadam would more likelybe backing down if the Governments of France, Germany and now Russia and China really wanted him to....they are disengenuous and dishonest...they leave the illussuion of an out for saddam that he is capitalizing on. If they didn't want a war they would be holding firm on all of the resolutions they already passed. The truth is that saddam is a BIG customer of france. They ALL voted yes on 1441...and the new resolution they're all yelling about vetoing only says that Iraq is in material breach...AND THEY ARE...they LIED about what they have...spending months claiming they ahve nothing...and we haven't even looked at any millitary instalations....
OH well...the REALITY of it all is that in the end (ywo weeks max..we're taking sadam out..wether the ineffectual governments of france/germany/ect like it our not.
Talk is cheap...but that's all they can afford.
Old 6th March 2003
  #228
Well its oficial, Saddam has zoomed up the ranks as the new "number one baddie" stateside. Folks in the US are now all expert in 'freedom for the Iraqi peoples'

Sigh.....

Well perhaps they will support freedom in Tibet next.. wooops no oil! Doh!

B.T - re the 75% in Britain backing actaion against Iraq, that was for UN SANCTIONED action, not for a signing up to Bush's McForiegn policy!

BTW the US has been in breach MANY TIMES on UN resolutions, it's only now that it suits them that they point to Iraq's UN issues.

Anyhow the pro war PR job is total it seems.... Grim news.

I dont think the US is prepaired for how unpopular this may make them globally. The US is used to the role of 'hero'
Old 6th March 2003
  #229
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5down1up's Avatar
 

hrhrhr , recorderman , I LOVE YOU heh

there is nobody who invented something musicalwise , its evolution . no wagner no hendrix ...

dont you have to agree that some of the important folks you are talkin bout arent the typical americans ??? either they are black , sound italian or southamerican . its nice that you treat em all on that topic like if they were " real americans " . but you know that they arent fuuck .

so to keep it short , america is europe , europe is america .
i dont like the idea of taking out anything thats good and blaming the rest you dont like . you have to get along with both sides .

and why are you talking " WE " take em out ??? are you going to fight there or are you doing your thing in front of the TV ???
dont you agree that its for real that the britain goverment lied to their own people in fact of getting more " pro-wars " on their side ???

and dont get it wrong , i am not a friend of saddam . basically i could think as well , WHO GIVES A **** . but thats not my idea about solving problems . theres no power without having people support those head . and myself as 1 out of 6 000 000 000 i belong to

P E A C E , let the people decide if they want a war and not some jerks who are getting a hard one when they say

" WE , THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BLABLABLA "










Old 7th March 2003
  #230
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jules


I dont think the US is prepaired for how unpopular this may make them globally. The US is used to the role of 'hero'
Jules, have you forgotten the massive European demonstrations over many of the US decisions during the Cold War? Basing cruise missiles in Europe was about as unpopular as the current situation with Iraq. It was "certain doom and the coming of WWIII". There were huge anti-American demonstrations on a number of occasions in Europe on a variety of issues. Check any news archives for some nice photos.

Reagan was a "war monger" as well. But he stayed the course, in spite of all of the European critics and naysayers, and the rest is history. The Berlin Wall came down, the USSR folded, the Cold War ended, Germany was reunited and the rest of Eastern Europe was set free. But not if Reagan had listened to the Europeans. How many tens or hundreds of millions of lives have been bettered by Ronald Reagan ignoring his European critics? Ask around in the former Soviet satellite countries.

Notice that the main nations who were signers of the recent letter in support of the US were former Iron Curtain victims who clearly remember these things. And I surely appreciate them for remembering.

Check the history of the 20th century a bit more closely. You'll find that in the second half, the US was not used to being the "hero". No, we were mostly used to being the ones getting flamed as bullies, even as the free world often benefitted greatly from our efforts, thankless though they often were. Any mistakes we made, and there were plenty to be sure, were noticed immediately, however.

I think many Americans feel we are "damned if we do and damned if we don't", simply because we are so high profile. It's impossible to please everybody, and the whole world seems to have a national pastime of watching our every move to see where they can bust our chops. Read news from around the world. What's happening in the US is often front page. Of course they resent us. I probably would as well, from their viewpoint.

I wonder how many other countries would wear our level of irresistable military power as gracefully for this many decades. Surely not the French or Germans, if history is any guide.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 7th March 2003
  #231
Gear Head
 

shoes for industry

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT

Reagan was a "war monger" as well. But he stayed the course, in spite of all of the European critics and naysayers, and the rest is history. The Berlin Wall came down, the USSR folded, the Cold War ended, Germany was reunited and the rest of Eastern Europe was set free. But not if Reagan had listened to the Europeans. How many tens or hundreds of millions of lives have been bettered by Ronald Reagan ignoring his European critics? Ask around in the former Soviet satellite countries.


Any mistakes we made, and there were plenty to be sure, were noticed immediately, however.

First, I think giving Reagan credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union is a bit generous. The USSR was headed for collapse all on its own--we now know that the CIA consistently (and intentionally) overestimated the military might of the Soviets--if the military budget had stayed at the same level as in the Carter administration, the USSR would most likely have fallen apart anyway.

Of course, now Russia is an utter mess, & it's hard to say for certain that folks there are better off now than they were under, say, Brezhnev. Folks in Poland & the Czech Republic are better off. Folks in the former Yugoslavia--hard to say.

Now the thing about mistakes made: there were plenty, and most of them were intentional. I don't know how rapidly they were all noticed in any general way--mention the overthrow of the Arbenz govt. in Guatemala to someone old enough to remember & your comments will more likely than not be greeted with a blank stare; mention Iran-Contra & you get to hear what a hero Ollie North was; mention the assassination of Salvador Allende or the bombing of Cambodia & you might see the glimmer of something half-remembered but better forgotten.

But that's not really my main point. My main point is that unless the Bush admin is far luckier than they are good, they're on the verge of making another one of those mistakes. And it could be a pretty damn big one. Since war seems imminent and inevitable, I hope I and all the other naysayers are wrong(or, a more likely scenario, Bush & co. get lucky & don't screw the pooch).

I guess that's it for now.
Old 7th March 2003
  #232
SawSlut
 
OzNimbus's Avatar
 

Here's some interesting quotes I got from one of my Air Force buddies:


"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure"
---Jacques Chirac, President of France

"As far as France is concerned, you're right."
---Rush Limbaugh


here's another one

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag."

--David Letterman


and, because this is a musical forum,

REPLACEMENTS FOR THE
FRENCH NATIONAL ANTHEM:
"Runaway" by Del Shannon,
"Walk Right In" by the Rooftop Singers,
"Everybody's Somebody's" Fool by Connie Francis,
"Running Scared" by Roy Orbison,
"I Really Don't Want to Know" by Tommy Edwards,
"Surrender" by Elvis Presley,
"Save It For Me" by The Four Seasons,
"Live and Let Die" by Wings,
"I'm Leaving It All Up To You" by Donny and Marie Osmond,
"What a Fool Believes" by the Doobie Brothers,
"Don't Worry, Be Happy" by Bobby McFerrin
"Raise Your Hands" by Jon Bon Jovi
Old 7th March 2003
  #233
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5down1up's Avatar
 

some of you are still sticking to an old picture about how

" A MAN HAS TO ACT "

i am repeating myself , but the most brave men came to the conclusion that violence isnt a solution .
some of you have some good arguments about talk aint worth **** . and maybe , they are right !?!?

a lot of rules f.ex death row in the u.s is a good example for unhumanity . its proofen that INNOCENT people die in fact of a law that doesnt work in the real - world .
the basic thought of a law like this is to provide criminal actions ,
cause the criminals should be scared , but still , they arent .
so what are you gonna do , start killing those guys who are stealing a car ??? send the prositutes or maybe the weed smokers into the chamber ???

it needs a lot of skills to come up with the real solution .
as far as we still have problems like that , we really should focus on whats happening in front of our doors instead of trying to control a country thats almost 10000 miles away .
Old 7th March 2003
  #234
The news reporting in Europe is biased towards peace and anti "world war 3 disaster scenarios".

Still America got to see some European style questions at yesterdays press conference Bush gave.

He didn't stutter or get a word wrong this time, but his oration skills were only basic compared to the articulate journalists he faced, kinda grim! He referred to diplomacy like it was something 'other people' were doing.

"we godda lotta food going in"

???

"Starving Iraq" now?

Waddevah!

grudge

Here's an easy way to get a feel for the European perspective, - it's the same as American TV journalists concerned with the bad effects of war.

US media has always been more Democrat than Republic hasn't it?

Well same here in the UK.
Old 7th March 2003
  #235
Here for the gear
 
Plus6's Avatar
 

Jules,
When the people of Iraq are dancing in the street and hugging American soldiers after they are freed, I will be looking forward to your "European style" Thankyou.
Old 7th March 2003
  #236
I will rush to thank every one if this whole barrel of monkeys doesnt start off world war 3, rest assured! The old 'European short memory" will no doubt come in usefull!



Meanwhile, where DID I put that gass mask?

Old 7th March 2003
  #237
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up
hrhrhr , recorderman , I LOVE YOU heh

there is nobody who invented something musicalwise , its evolution . no wagner no hendrix ...

dont you have to agree that some of the important folks you are talkin bout arent the typical americans ??? either they are black , sound italian or southamerican . its nice that you treat em all on that topic like if they were " real americans " . but you know that they arent fuuck .

so to keep it short , america is europe , europe is america .
i dont like the idea of taking out anything thats good and blaming the rest you dont like . you have to get along with both sides .

and why are you talking " WE " take em out ??? are you going to fight there or are you doing your thing in front of the TV ???
dont you agree that its for real that the britain goverment lied to their own people in fact of getting more " pro-wars " on their side ???

and dont get it wrong , i am not a friend of saddam . basically i could think as well , WHO GIVES A **** . but thats not my idea about solving problems . theres no power without having people support those head . and myself as 1 out of 6 000 000 000 i belong to

P E A C E , let the people decide if they want a war and not some jerks who are getting a hard one when they say

" WE , THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BLABLABLA "










Hey..Love you too....that's what "real" americans are...all types.

A hard concept for people from other countries to understand, I know...most countries have/are mono culture, mostly..especially in comparison to the melting pot of the U.S. ...where I live (LA) there are litterally hundreds of languages & cultures represented...I doubt that there is such cultural richness near you.
...debate on....

heh

P.S. As far as "we"...I'm to old to enlist to fight...I would If I could...I'm very sincere in my beliefs...keep driveing you're idealist/appeasement bandwagon to your own ruin...just get out of "our" way. Hows the techno going?
Old 7th March 2003
  #238
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

5down1up...have you eevr been to the U.S.?
Just curious...'cause I've been to Germany. It's really hard to get a good breakfast there..and the supermarkets (that's over stating it) are like big 7-11's....
...and try and find a place to cut drums....
Old 8th March 2003
  #239
Here for the gear
 

I have been going out of my mind this past week and it hasnt been about which microphone sounds better or which cable to use. I am really alarmed and depressed that a man that wasn't really elected is about to unleash a massive war for unclear reasons. You can cite daddy, oil, possibly even the liberation of Iraq, and probably all of the above somewhat apply. However, this is a global community we live in and it is extremely dangerous when one nation decides to defy the world, let alone its own citizens, and attack another (I never thought I would have to characterize the US in these terms) Given the probelms brewing in Korea, the middle east, and the various terrorist groups scattered across the world, I find it very disturbing that the leaders of the United States have determined a war with Iraq is the best course of action. Perhaps its because no one has a clue on how to deal with the real problems, and out of all them, Iraq offers the unique solution in that it is a war we can win. However, that doesn't make it right...

Kaiser
Old 8th March 2003
  #240
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 

Oz,

about your posts and picture : fuuck

As a french citizen, and even as a human being, I'll pass on thoses jokes.
May be I'm over reacting, but I do believe this conversation is not nice anymore. If you think you'll need new friends, good for you, but I don't feel you are representing a majority in US or Canada.
As I see WWII debt from my country, well, I owe US, canada, Russia, UK etc.
That does not mean I should shut my mouth and blindly follow what GW Bush orders us. I don't see direct menace from Iraq, end of the question. If France had to follow every orders from every country that helped us liberating from the ****s, we might have just been communists after the war.
I'm a little sick about theses jokes, as well as the attitude of US and UK medias recently, as well as some of the members of US administration.
I was hoping the tone of this board would be a little more mature.

May be it is time I quit this thread for good: it is getting nowhere now.
The point was not to change anyone's mind. Just to exchange point of views, and make us understand why we were thinking differently.
I was pleased that Brian wrote a great post about that, and I'm thankfull to him he did.
But that kind of crappy tasteless propaganda is just useless **** in this discussion.

As someone from this board pointed out : a friend is somebody that warn you if you make a mistake...

Well, I just did it .

Good day

malice
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