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another WAR 2003 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 9th April 2003
  #631
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Little dog,

Forget about what you think of anthropologists.
I know about the struggles there bound to personal image obsessions and such. Just like with other scientific departments. But what I was talking about is not too much of a question nowadays. Especially since the reactionary league has lost their arguments through discoveries of the last decades.

In the last few years there have come out certain new insights about humans development that none of the old believers would doubt on anymore. That´s e.g. why they not long ago took a hammer and chiseled away the backhead on the first found neandertaler face bone which had been wrongly attached by former colleagues in the form of a gorilla skul.

The primitive predecessor can´t be hold up by none of the prejudiced individuals of that profession anymore.
There have been found graves where crippled member who had been feeded by the tribe to above average age and beded on flowers and other testimonies of very social behaviour.

And it isn´t hard to understand anyway. Men has not been superior hunter like it has been told all the time until only a few years back, instead men has actually been prey in the first priority.

Hominids used to live in small groups of 10 to ~ 30 members in a very rough environment. Landscapes were literally crowded with huge carnivors like big cats with shoulder hights of over 2 meters and bears with shoulderhights to 5 meters.

To find carrion and later to hunt by themselves also early men had to roam through vegetation sorts higher than them where you could stand before your hunter at anytime. No doubt about the fact that every member was conscious about the fact that the loss of only one of his fellows would lessen the surviving chances of all considerably. That is why they must have been defending their people to the utmost. This is why they must have lived with a solidarity that we today can´t even imagine. And that is why they adorned and cared very much for their children. This is also why and how they developed speech and ethics.

Dig it. With the poor empathic abilities that civilized populations have today there would be no homo sapiens on earth.

The science might be discussing whether mens development started 5 or eight million years ago, they might also doubt about how many sub species there have been running around and they might be e.g. in controversy about the question whether neandertaler ceased because of infererior culture, because of having merged with us ( very likely not ) or having been pushed back by homo sapiens, but the anthropologist who would still doubt on the socilogical high status of hominids would had not updated his knowledge since the seventies at the latest.

And finally the controversy among anthropologist is getting less and less from year to year as findings grow.

For your record.

Ruphus
Old 10th April 2003
  #632
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Messiah's Avatar
 

There's a political debate program on in the UK right now that had a member of parliament firmly stating and emphasizing that Russia, France and Germany supplied Saddam with as much as 50% of the weapons he had. One presumes he meant the other 50% came from a make up of US and UK contributions, which is what he seemed to be trying to illustrate when he was asked "how can we take the glory for the regimes defeat when we armed them in the first place?".......

What's bothering me at the moment is the coalition's "revelling in glory", it just seems wrong to me. The goalposts have been moved, and moved, and moved by the Bush admin as to the reasoning and justification behind this invasion.

First was the sickening and insulting (especially to those who lost their lives on 9/11) attempts to tie Saddam in with 9/11 and OBL.

Then came the attempts to shift the focus to Saddam's breach of the UN resolution regarding the weapons inspectors instead, which was followed by Bush's call for action because Saddam must have WMD's.

This was all then followed by the current card that is being held aloft....now our forces were really there to liberate the Iraqi people all along, who we care so deeply for ("ahh.....look how happy all those little Iraqi's are now...").

It all stinks, there's nothing glorious about this.

I watched live pictures this afternoon with Sky's (Fox to you US dudes) David Chater walking freely around the center of Baghdad after the Marines got there. He was stopping and talking to various Marines asking them their names, ranks, experiences so far and if they have any message for people back home... As anti-war as I am and as anticlimactic as I find it I was pleased to see the obvious relief/ restbite at least in the faces of these soldiers, who are, after all, only doing their job. I have also seen the same reaction from UK troops in Basra in the last few days and feel the same way towards them.

It made me realise that if we were in genuine danger and involved in a justified war, these guys would be doing exactly the same jobs, regardless, as they're doing now and I would be extremely grateful and supportive, and as such, I appreciate all the soldiers involvement on our behalf and I honestly wish for their speedy and safe return to their loved ones.

Is anyone else missing the broadcasts of the Iraqi Information Minister, Mohammed Saeed al Sahhaf? In a totally media dominated war, he's had one of the most entertaining and charismatic roles...
Old 10th April 2003
  #633
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
Hey guys...... none of them are American made. They are all Russian , with the exception of a few French planes. Which, to tell the truth, is a part of why we were able to prevail so easily. Sorry, but it's true.
WRONG! they have been finding stashes of american made weapons, that WE supplied them when they were going at irans throats. i seen it on the news so it must be true.
Old 10th April 2003
  #634
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Brian, those are remarkable facts but are you trying to side step the point that the US backed Saddam & muslim extremists in the past when it suited them?


Not a bit, Jules. You can easily read my posts and note that I agree the US has made some grevious errors in judgement. Just like everybody else. It's just that I also take time to note the good done as well.

My post was merely pointing out the (at least to me) obvious issue that there is a glaring factual challenge to the hackneyed argument that the US "armed" Iraq.

We did not. The Russians (actually the USSR) and the French armed Iraq. That is plainly evident by simply observing the weapons themselves. It's not hard to do.

Why this fact is not noticed is beyond me, being somewhat of a gearhead.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th April 2003
  #635
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
WRONG! they have been finding stashes of american made weapons, that WE supplied them when they were going at irans throats. i seen it on the news so it must be true.
Oh, come on. I know a little about Soviet vs US weapons. All of their tanks are Soviet T-55s and T-72s. The USA makes no AK rifle variants, which is all the Iraqis use. Every single rifle you see carried by an Iraqi is a Russian design.

Their multiple rocket batteries, artillery, RPGs, armored personnel carriers, mortars, SAM missiles, antiaircraft guns and machine guns are Soviet.

The only warplanes they flew, both in 1991 and now, were Russian Migs and a few French Mirages.

So, alpha, that's a pretty complete, though not exhaustive, list of the weapons used in modern warfare. Those are the weapons they have been shooting at US and British soldiers.

Now exactly which US made weapons have they found? Could you elaborate a bit? Speak knowledge.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th April 2003
  #636
Lives for gear
 

Here is a Link to an article from the French publication, Le Monde. It is originally in French, but translated to English in the link page.

A fascinating article, which quotes a German publication that recently interviewed several UN weapons inspectors who were in Iraq. Interestingly, the inspectors were not supposed to discuss the inspections in Iraq, though the inspection process is obviously over. These particular inspectors were apparently bothered enough about the subject to talk about it anyway.

Feel free to read it for yourself, but my summary is that these inspectors felt very strongly that by indicating an unwillingness to use force, and by fracturing the UN Security Council, France, Germany and Russia had effectively thwarted the very peaceful solution they sought.

The inspectors believed it was only the credible threat of the use of force that Saddam responded to, and once that was undermined, in particular by Germany's position, the inspections became ineffective.

Please keep in mind that this is a French publication quoting a German publication's interview. Little chance of American media bias here, I would think.

I just found the whole thing tragically ironic. Some people only respond to force, sadly.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th April 2003
  #637
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Quote:
I want to help others, contribute to solving world problems, and even bring freedom to others. If you don’t agree with those things , I can only say that we indeed see the world differently.
Mack,

this sounds great ( without being sarcastic ).

But I with best will can´t get how you then defend what we are having right now.

"I'd say more like BIG evidence, not interest, from the history of mankind!"

What is referred to with this statement can only be about the last 5, maybe even 8 to 12 thousand years. While I throw in another amount for you to ensure about the last 30,000 years, although would by far not yet mean "history of menkind".

Menkind has developed through millions of years ( Evolution takes place very slow. Homo saphiens´ steps of development are counted in 100,000 years.) and as I said above, as a physically weak creature that men is the only chance to survive was strong solidarity within groups together with developing consciousness which again came from high priority on social interaction.

Meanwhile we have been passed since the period of your "history of menkind" by inferior species though like the Suricata suricatta who are considered the most social creatures on earth. ( Please chime in laughing, you are invited. )
Here is the outperformer.


You may call me what you want I am ok with Jean-Paul Sartre, Utopia and whatsoever. What I see is that you are not logical.

Your wishful interpretation collides fundamentally with your goal.

Ruphus
Old 10th April 2003
  #638
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
"

Brian, those are remarkable facts but are you trying to side step the point that the US backed Saddam & muslim extremists in the past when it suited them?

Duh.... What are you saying? that you or anyone else around here; or any other nation of people do not act in there self interest? Remember that only in heaven (presumably) are things perfect. Considering the rulers that have been in power in the middle east for the last 80+ years(who were principle set-up I might add by the British and the French after WWI) there are precious few "good"choices to make. Are you being selective or outright false in your aggenda laden analysis? Let me remind you that The Sha of Iran (yes we had good relations with him) was overthrown by the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979. At that time our Embassy was sacked and our diplomats taken hostage. Therefore we had a proveoked reason to have differrences with Iran. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Uncomfortably so. You and your ilk overstate your case whever you make the weak allegations that me "created Sadam". We didn't become deeply in involved in the Iran / Iraq war until 1987, in response to Iranian attacks on Kuwaiti oil tankers traveling in the Persian Gulf.
Conspiracy theory is like an addiction with pokeman cards. You have to base it all on a few simple precepts, and then you have to keep getting new "cards" (i.e. "facts" & "details") to support your thesis. It makes life so much easier...everything that is bad is because of someone else...the grand cabal who received there secret power and wisdom thousands of years ago inside of a pyramid from cloned aliens. It make the conspracy addict feel superior, because they know the answer. It's the "evil and greedy" American administrations that are the root of all problems. [side note: most of these "theories" are rehashes of earlier anti-jewish propaganda, so richly developed in germany, france and the soviet union overb the alst couple of hundred years) There are many instances where we (U.S.), as well as every country through-out history, has had to pick the lesser of two evils to work through a situation. You can pick facts to support your paradigm however you see fit. But don't pretend that every other nation doesn't do the same thing.

Just do this. Make two collumn seach for every major nation overb the last two-thousand years. In one collumn right don't pluses-things that that nation and/or it's inhabitants have don to progress human civiliztion...in the other collumn place negatives. Once your done (if you honest) I think you'll find that the west hasn't been so bad after all.

Over the last 50 years the world as a whole as had the greatest standard of living and freedom increase in history, afforded it by who's leadership? The U.S.S.R.? China? Japan? Germany? France?....




Oh.......how many of you would wish to live in either: A.) Iran or North Korea....or B.)US and Europe? It's not the geography that makes the choices so striking. It's the make-up of the freedoms afforded to it's citizens.

Rave on.......

Old 10th April 2003
  #639
Here for the gear
 
Plus6's Avatar
 

the Òanti-liberationÓ crowd

recorderman, your above statements are absolutely brilliant. I wonder if any of the so-called Òanti-warÓ, or shall we say Òanti-liberationÓ crowd are brave enough to admit that they may have been wrong about this war?
Old 10th April 2003
  #640
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Messiah's Avatar
 

I will....straight after you admit that you were wrong to believe all the bull**** you were fed about the Iraqi regime/Osama Bin Laden/Al Qeda links and the bull**** you believed about this regime having weapons of mass destruction.
Thinking about it, we're not wrong until the reasons for this war are justified and proved via solid evidence. So fuuck to you on that one.

Getting rid of Saddam through diplomatic skill would have brought real glory and sent a positive message to the world, not this ****, but, of course, this current US regime couldn't talk candy from a child, they'd rather shoot first and find an excuse later.
Old 10th April 2003
  #641
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bassmac's Avatar
 

Re: the Òanti-liberationÓ crowd

Quote:
Originally posted by Plus6
I wonder if any of the so-called Òanti-warÓ, or shall we say Òanti-liberationÓ crowd are brave enough to admit that they may have been wrong about this war?
Don't hold your breath - they always find something to bitch about. dfegad

Good post Recorderman.

This thread should be renamed "The spin zone". heh

Old 10th April 2003
  #642
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bassmac's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
I will....straight after you admit that you were wrong to believe all the bull**** you were fed about the Iraqi regime/Osama Bin Laden/Al Qeda links and the bull**** you believed about this regime having weapons of mass destruction.
Do you have some sort of proof to the contrary? And don't forget, it ain't over yet. They've only been there three frickin' weeks...jeez!

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
Getting rid of Saddam through diplomatic skill would have brought real glory and sent a positive message to the world, not this ****...
um... they've been trying to do just that for the last thirteen or so years.

It doesn't matter anyway... your hatred began long before the war.

Old 10th April 2003
  #643
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Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
I will....straight after you admit that you were wrong to believe all the bull**** you were fed about the Iraqi regime/Osama Bin Laden/Al Qeda links and the bull**** you believed about this regime having weapons of mass destruction.
OK. I'm hanging on to this one. Now that we finally have unfettered access to Iraq, we will see how the weapons inspections go this time around.

Maybe you're right and it's all been BS. Could be. Or maybe you've prognosticated a bit prematurely and we'll see how that plays out now. I admit there have been a number of false alarms involving supposed WDM so far, mostly by reporters. And to be fair (if that's OK as far as the US goes), the US has debunked all of them and stated they were false when that was the case.

So anyway, I'm thinking your post regarding the WDM is going to look pretty silly within a week or so, now that we can look wherever we want, unimpeded. But I could absolutely be wrong.

But any way you slice it, those are some pretty happy Iraqis celebrating the fall of Saddam. Whatever else is right or wrong here, and I'm not dismissing the potential validity of your points, I'm happy for them.

Are you?


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th April 2003
  #644
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by bassmac

It doesn't matter anyway... your hatred began long before the war.

You know what, the sad thing about this is that you're totally wrong.

I, and I think if it's applicable to me it will be to others too, have had my ill feelings (not hatred, btw) towards the US come about as a direct result of the Bush administration's recent hostile actions towards the rest of the world, except for, funnily enough, the country in which I'm from.

Then there's the inevitability of this war that bugs me too.
Has everyone forgotten the talk around the time of the election he stole, the talk about W wanting to finish what his daddy started, etc.. it was all obvious as **** from day one when the election was rigged. It amazes me how unstoppable the whole thing has been.

As I said, I don't hate the US, I just don't like the bunch of warmongering cowboy ****wits who are bringing millions of Americans down to their cancerous ways.
Old 10th April 2003
  #645
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
OK. I'm hanging on to this one. Now that we finally have unfettered access to Iraq, we will see how the weapons inspections go this time around.

Maybe you're right and it's all been BS. Could be. Or maybe you've prognosticated a bit prematurely and we'll see how that plays out now. I admit there have been a number of false alarms involving supposed WDM so far, mostly by reporters. And to be fair (if that's OK as far as the US goes), the US has debunked all of them and stated they were false when that was the case.

So anyway, I'm thinking your post regarding the WDM is going to look pretty silly within a week or so, now that we can look wherever we want, unimpeded. But I could absolutely be wrong.
What about 'innocent until proven guilty', Brian. Is your constitution wrong, or just selective?

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT

But any way you slice it, those are some pretty happy Iraqis celebrating the fall of Saddam. Whatever else is right or wrong here, and I'm not dismissing the potential validity of your points, I'm happy for them.

Are you?
Of course I am, but it's a small part of the picture, particularly in the context of the region. This is still a very superficial reaction for what has happened, and it's the only positive that can be grasped from the countless civilian casualties, the military casualties, the billions of dollars spent, the harm it has done for relations with other Arab nations (none of which are democracies I might add), etc..
Old 10th April 2003
  #646
Lives for gear
 

"What about 'innocent until proven guilty', Brian. Is your constitution wrong, or just selective?"


You apparently don't get it. Iraq signed a document to end the war it had started in 1991. Part of the conditions that Saddam agreed to was that the burden of proof was on him to demonstrate that he has, among other things, disarmed from these specific weapons.

This was not an "innocent till proven guilty" case. This was the already proven guilty agreeing in writing to being put on probation with the condition that he continue to meet certain requirements, some of which he never did. Otherwise, why do you think the UN inspectors were there?


"Of course I am, but it's a small part of the picture, particularly in the context of the region."


It may be a small part of the picture for you, but a pretty huge part of the picture for 27,000,000 Iraqis, most of whom seem to think this is a pretty big deal.

Funny, you don't seem too happy. What is it with you negative types?


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th April 2003
  #647
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
You know what, the sad thing about this is that you're totally wrong.

I, and I think if it's applicable to me it will be to others too, have had my ill feelings (not hatred, btw) towards the US come about as a direct result of the Bush administration's recent hostile actions towards the rest of the world, except for, funnily enough, the country in which I'm from.

Then there's the inevitability of this war that bugs me too.
Has everyone forgotten the talk around the time of the election he stole, the talk about W wanting to finish what his daddy started, etc.. it was all obvious as **** from day one when the election was rigged. It amazes me how unstoppable the whole thing has been.

As I said, I don't hate the US, I just don't like the bunch of warmongering cowboy ****wits who are bringing millions of Americans down to their cancerous ways.

Careful, you're beggining to froth at the mouth a little bit.

I take it you're not real tolerant of people you disagree with? Because I'm pretty sure you just pegged those Americans you disagree with right here in this thread as being guilty of "cancerous ways".

Boyz n Girlz, read the thread. Am I crazy, or are the war opponents pretty consistently more likely to insult and curse others in their posts?

That seems weird to me.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th April 2003
  #648
Gear Addict
 

We'll see in 6 months when there is civil war in Iraq and the turks and the Kurds are at one anothers throats, whether the ill conceived bluddering around in foriegn states, that you are to dumb or to ignorant to understand , will still be the unqualified success it's being trumpeted to be. Do you realise that when a group of the guys jumping around on the statue, that was so balyhooed yesterday, were interviewed about their reactions they replied that they were happy because they now could form a real muslim state.
It would be a real mistake to give the current American administration, much credit for having any plan beyond the scam that they are pulling on the american public. Once again, this is about one thing and one thing only, extracting 174 billion from the american tax payer for the benefit of Dubya and his friends. End of story. These guys are heavily into arms and arms trafficking and contracting services to the military. They are playing on the concerns and patriotism of a slightly uninformed american public, who are 1: not inclined to be that interested in the rest of the world and 2: somewhat socialised to defer to their leadership on foriegn policy and military issues and 3: inclined to believe that everyone else is out to get them and that everyone who disagrees with them is a communist. And everyone knows that communists are out to take away all your stuff and make you stand in lines. So if a communist, brings up any facts like the american VP's company selling the raw materials for chemical weapons to the bad guys, you should immeadiately yell you're a communist then proceed to stick your head up your ass so you can't hear any more of their propaganda. Take care Logan
Old 10th April 2003
  #649
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Logan
We'll see in 6 months when there is civil war in Iraq and the turks and the Kurds are at one anothers throats, whether the ill conceived bluddering around in foriegn states, that you are to dumb or to ignorant to understand , will still be the unqualified success it's being trumpeted to be.

See what I mean? First of all, what a cheery and optimistic post in general. Hey, here's hoping for pure hell for millions of people in about six months so you can be "right". Hey, Logan, I know you're probably a great guy. I'm a pretty nice guy too. Remember the Firewire thread? Maybe a little less of inflexible dogma and a little more "in my opinion" would help out here. Opinions are fine. Can we leave a little room for some disagreement?

Am I really "to dumb or to ignorant to understand"? Or do I just happen to disagree with you, but without any tolerance on your part for my disagreement? I mean, is that not how wars start? And is this not becoming a war in this thread?

Since it's been about 18 months now, I wonder if the Afghanis currently wish the Americans had never shown up? I don't think so. Perfect? No. But so far, the tragic predictions there have failed to materialize. May the same be true for the Iraqis.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 10th April 2003
  #650
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
It may be a small part of the picture for you, but a pretty huge part of the picture for 27,000,000 Iraqis, most of whom seem to think this is a pretty big deal.

Funny, you don't seem too happy. What is it with you negative types?
"You negative types"? What, you mean us negative types who gave a **** about the 27,000,000 Iraqi lives BEFORE yesterday?

I have shown positivity to US involvement in this war, apart from to the US admin (cancerous), at one time or another, along with the criticism I have expressed. I have been quite torn at times during this war, I now personally know/knew 2 people who have been killed and as such for me to be, or feel, totally negative would be unjust to people who I know who are involved a lot more deeply than I.

Negativity, Brian, is the zealous nature in which you cannot see ANY wrong in the actions of your leaders. You would have been one of the first to point out this sort of trait in members of the Republican Guards defending Saddam.

And I'm not frothing at the mouth at all, far from it. I fully appreciate the sanctuary and freedom I have in my country and in an ideal world we'd all have the same liberties. The thing is, I was happier with the state of the world before Bush stole the election. For all his faults, I think Clinton would have handled the post 9/11 world more diplomaticly had he still been in office (a fault in the US system,IMO). This isn't a left wing/right wing differences observation either, it is based on my belief, as I said, that the current Bush admin is a cancer.
Old 10th April 2003
  #651
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bassmac's Avatar
 

I'll bet a new HD3 that if Clinton were in office today, nobody would be questioning any of this! Especially all the anti-war "movie stars". Bush was "pre-judged" before he was ever sworn in.
Old 11th April 2003
  #652
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by bassmac
I'll bet a new HD3 that if Clinton were in office today, nobody would be questioning any of this! Especially all the anti-war "movie stars". Bush was "pre-judged" before he was ever sworn in.
You may well be correct, and I'd love to disagree and take a HD3 off you.

So, go on, continue because you're onto something here, WHY was Bush pre-judged before he was sworn in?
Old 11th April 2003
  #653
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bassmac's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
Iraq signed a document to end the war it had started in 1991. Part of the conditions that Saddam agreed to was that the burden of proof was on him to demonstrate that he has, among other things, disarmed from these specific weapons.
This is the basic fact that everybody here seems to be missing.

Old 11th April 2003
  #654
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

While the war defenders accuse us to neglect, it is them who hardly accepted any of the many points we delivered and those few circumstances some of them accepted still were not taken into their further conclusions, better to say believe.

What will happen now to that "freed" country? The same pattern that happened to other "freed" places.

First the US industry will open a calculation that will say that building up the oil scoop facilities and pipe lines would cost more than half of the resource being worth.
From what is left after "amortizing" a few Iraqies will get really fat earning some cents per dollars safed on barrels that will be sucked away for almost free, and the rest of the population will they have a better living?

Sure, they will be fed with the fact that they can say almost everything they want, as long as it won´t cut on profits.

Let´s see how oil export will bring benefits to Iraqs majority.

And about the other populations ... I think Logan already mentioned what is to be awaited.

Ruphus

PS: If the US troups would also invade the Iranian part of the oil fields they would have the biggest source of finest oil quality in the world for not much more than the expense for ( environment spoiling ) transport. It wouldn´t make me wonder if there would come up urgent reason soon to go in there too.
Old 11th April 2003
  #655
Gear Addict
 

Brian
This isn't some polite formal debate, where we can agree to disagree, at least not for millions of folks with bombs falling on them. We are talking about whether or not a small group of people should be allowed to manipulate international events with force , for their own benefit. It's not lines on a map, it's civilians dying, or international press, if some cowboy wants to lob a tank shell into their hotel. It's the hundreds of thousands whom have died since Desert storm from sanctions. It's the obviously, at least in your myopic view, extstatic Afghans, running around in a country full of land mines, at the mercy of warlords, with no rights schools or food. I have friends there at this moment trying to deal with the chaos and starvation, you can't even take a walk in 70% of the country.
But you would have me allow you, your opinions, to be polite, to give you the benfit of the doubt sometimes. Sorry your country is killing people illegally and immorally and I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I gave quarter on that issue. Accusations have been made and your answer always has not been, "no that didn't happen", but, "guys don't like us and besides your just a bunch of niave, cynical left wingers, and nothing we do will ever please you".
Quit pissing around in other peoples lives at the point of a gun. and I'll give you all the credit in the world. Keep it up and I'll lend my efforts and voice to trying to stop you. 'cause there just ain't no compromise on those issues.
I remember the Firewire thread well and as I've stated before and Jules emphasised, I've got nothing against you as a person and hold your accomplishments, and your giving nature and your insights in the area of audio, in high regard..I hope some day to have the pleasure of buying you a beer, coffee or poison of your choice. But on this issue you're wrong and your ideas are leading very directly to people dying, and that I will never accept. take care Logan
Old 11th April 2003
  #656
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5down1up's Avatar
 

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

WHOS NEXT

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


WAR IS NOT AN OPTION
Old 11th April 2003
  #657
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Logan,

So the bottom line is that if someone disagrees with you, then they are categorically wrong. There is no room allowed for disagreement. Millions who may disagree are simply dupes with either no discernment, or else willing participants in whatever you percieve to be wrong. In either case, incapable of seeing with your clarity.

By implication, you know what is best and everyone else should recognize that and agree, otherwise, you will unwaveringly condemn them and their actions. This is your moral duty.

Scary.

But on the flipside, hey, if you could just get ahold of a country you could run, you'd be set.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 11th April 2003
  #658
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

I´ll be his first citizen.
Hey Logan, I think around the Caribbean Sea there could be some island relatively cheap to get.
Maybe one of the upper folks might lend us his daily budget for a while ..., but I fear he just wouldn´t.

Anyway, years ago there was a project there ( I think near Venezuela ) like that. I signed for it, but received no answer and havn´t heard anymore how things went.

Should anybody know, I´d like to know too .

Ruphus
Old 11th April 2003
  #659
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

exactly BRIAN ,

on elementary questions like this one ,
there is just one point of view ,
you CAN NOT have an opposite opinion .

if you pick violence as an option to solve personal belongings where will that lead us as those who support those actions ?
i expect a little more intellectual skills from those people who call themself leaders .
and i expect a little bit more emotinal skills from us , who sit at home and talking plain theory about the sence of PEOPLE dying .

you dont suffer , you dont bleed , so it sounds like you dont give a **** .
Old 11th April 2003
  #660
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

reply number 666 is mine

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