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another WAR 2003 Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1st April 2003
  #541
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by hodad
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts this is fake. I may be wrong, but the language sounds a bit too informal and, umm, contemporary for 1944 journalism.
You may be right. I don't lay any claims to it's authenticity, as it was just emailed to me by a friend. I don't know how to check it out either, but I wish I could. I suppose you'd have to have a subscription to Nexus or something.

Now that I look it over again, the "weapons of mass destruction" reference really doesn't sound right for 1944, but who knows?
Old 1st April 2003
  #542
Schnert
Guest
Killahurts,

Even though I'm not American, this can not possibly be the language from 59 years ago? In addition to that, it seems very strange to me that the only references to sources are as follows:

"said one well-connected former State Department official"

"It was pointed out to this reporter by a prominent former US ambassador"

"said one exasperated presidential advisor"

"Some have even suggested"

"One Senator who has been deeply involved in the discussions within the Administration said"

Smells like bad fake.
Old 1st April 2003
  #543
Lives for gear
 
littledog's Avatar
 

As a US citizen, I'd like to weigh in by saying:

I LOVE Canada and Canadians. One of my favorite places and some of my favorite people.

BUT NO WAY COULD I EVER LIVE THERE!!!!

Of course, I should add, this has nothing to do with lifestyle, politics, social systems, etc.

It's just TOO DAMN COLD up there!

Bad enough i live in Boston. If i ever get the chance to escape, I'm going to some island with no snow...

Watch how fast I'd become an ardent Bahamanian given the chance to never have to deal with another winter like this last one! Patriotism is one thing, but staying warm blows it away!!!
Old 1st April 2003
  #544
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally posted by littledog

It's just TOO DAMN COLD up there!

[/B]
Well even the crappy beer is pretty good, and the guys wearing balaclavas are harmless. Snowing here, at the moment. The real locals just kind of go slack jawed when it starts to get cold and start looking for a pond where they can play a little shinny 'til they get frost bite on their noses and can't feel their feet anymore, then we snowshoe over to the clinic and take advantage of our free health care. take care Logan
Old 1st April 2003
  #545
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by hodad
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts this is fake. I may be wrong, but the language sounds a bit too informal and, umm, contemporary for 1944 journalism.
I agree. My jive meter went to +3.

BT
Old 1st April 2003
  #546
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

oh it's fake alright....or I'm french (and malice doesn't want that)heh
Old 1st April 2003
  #547
Lives for gear
 

OK, check the article HERE for an interesting twist.

The Saudis are suggesting Saddam step aside, provoking a harsh response from Iraq. OK, that's interesting in itself.

But what I find extremely unusual is the following quote from the Saudi foreign minister:

"Saud also lashed out at unidentified American "prognosticators and advisers who have covered the wavelengths of all media stations" for giving the impression that Washington intends to change the geopolitical map in the region, feeding Arab fears that Iraq is the first U.S. step toward controlling the area.

Saud, a graduate of Princeton University, said it is "not within the character of the United States, at least not the United States that I know," to do that.

"This is creating great confusion that exists in the Arab world about the motives of the United States," Saud added. "I think and this country thinks, as a friend of the United States, that this image must change and the true nature of the American people should emerge from this fog that was created by these few individuals."

Here is the Saudi foreign minister commenting that the Arab world's anger is being unjustly fed by the more sinister (and untrue) accusations against the Bush admin, by some Americans.

Hello? Can you say Michael Moore, etc? I just find this an extraordinary situation.

Regards,
Brian T
Old 1st April 2003
  #548
Schnert
Guest
Quote:
Originally posted by recorderman
what bull****....they do not know haow to run there own lives period. The only thing that keeps them together is their common hatred for Isreal.
Oh, wise one, teach me more....
Old 1st April 2003
  #549
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Why have we (British) lost more soldiers at the hands of dumbass American soldiers, who also seem to like shooting Arabs in cars, than to the "enemy" in this "war"?
Old 1st April 2003
  #550
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT

Here is the Saudi foreign minister commenting that the Arab world's anger is being unjustly fed by the more sinister (and untrue) accusations against the Bush admin, by some Americans.

Hello? Can you say Michael Moore, etc? I just find this an extraordinary situation.
Can you say William Kristol? I happened to catch a few minutes of him today on Fresh Air, & he said that he thought Iran & South Korea should be next. He said he thought there was hope for diplomacy in Iran, but nonetheless, he was advocating getting rid of Iran's current govt. & he is, after all, one of the think-tankers whose ideas became a blueprint for the Bush foreign policy.
Old 1st April 2003
  #551
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
Why have we (British) lost more soldiers at the hands of dumbass American soldiers, who also seem to like shooting Arabs in cars, than to the "enemy" in this "war"?
"Dumbass American soldiers" "who seem to like shooting Arabs in cars"

Dude, that's an extremely lame thing to say. (I edited out harsher language here). Extremely. People are out there shooting and bleeding and dying, trying their best to do the right thing under tougher circumstances than you'll ever see. What a small minded affair to sit in your safe little spot and pontificate about it from the back seat.

Do you think in some insane firefight in the desert at 5AM with no sleep, that somebody thought, "Yeah, I'll kill some of my own guys. That will be great." No, that person will live in a nightmare of guilt, likely forever, from a decision they made in a split second, in the most intense danger a human can know. Hey, but don't let that stop you from your second guessing. It's easy....nobody is shooting at you.

Friendly fire is tragic and we anguish when it happens. And if you could talk to the shattered soldiers who accidentally killed those women and children in the van, maybe you would be less cavalier about it. Never mind that hundreds of marines have died over the years from car bombs driven by Islamic fundamentalists, including 4 this week.

For sentiments from all over the world, expressed in individual's posts on the BBC, those interested can try this Link. I found the condolences and kindness from so many different countries towards the loss of British, American and Iraqi lives to be encouraging about the world.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 1st April 2003
  #552
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bassmac's Avatar
 

BrianT = Good.

Messiah = Bad, very bad.

Nuff said.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #553
"What a small minded affair to sit in your safe little spot....."

Excuse me, I have noticed it a vauge trend of the Hawks round here to use this "saftey of your own home" accusation against the peacenicks. Almost as if they themselves are on the 'front line'. Errrr.... Unless I am mistaken, NO ONE here is on combat duty, so in that respect, it's a level playing field.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #554
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
"What a small minded affair to sit in your safe little spot....."

Excuse me, I have noticed it a vauge trend of the Hawks round here to use this "saftey of your own home" accusation against the peacenicks. Almost as if they themselves are on the 'front line'. Errrr.... Unless I am mistaken, NO ONE here is on combat duty, so in that respect, it's a level playing field.
You're focusing on the wrong portion of my statement, IMO:

"What a small minded affair to sit in your safe little spot and pontificate about it from the back seat. "

I'm not belittling and denigrating the soldiers out there doing the bleeding and dying from my "safe little spot". Messiah is. Therein lies the difference, with all due respect, Jules.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd April 2003
  #555
Lives for gear
 
Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 

Beer accepted...pipe passed as I have no interested...

Apologies to all if my anger earlier came out...I don't generally like a harsh tone amongst friends...

Jules, some of us have been on the front lines...my time was mostly Cold War stuff, although there are a few memories of loading the launchers, if you know what I mean...these are the precise memories that cause me to take the stand I take...not just because of my patriotic feelings...and no gas mask, duct tape, or plastic sheeting on windows could protect from the weapons of mass destruction involved in these exchanges...

Curious: liberals worldwide have had a chant of 'spend whatever it takes to free the oppressed,' and society has benefitted from their efforts...the only difference between freeing Bosnians, securing Kosovo, and freeing Iraqis is the President odering the activity...just food for thought ...

"No one wants peace more than the soldier who fought for it"
Old 2nd April 2003
  #556
Lives for gear
 

A poll of French opinion, taken in Le Monde, showed that 1/3 of those polled wanted Saddam Hussein to win this war.

Incredible. I think the intensity of this issue is bringing to the surface all manner of heretofore hidden feelings, all over the world. In one sense, it's probably a good thing to know what other people really think.

There is much food for thought these days. I can't seem to get much done in the studio.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd April 2003
  #557
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by recorderman
oh it's fake alright....or I'm french (and malice doesn't want that)heh
Are you kidding ? you are welcome heh

malice
Old 2nd April 2003
  #558
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
A poll of French opinion, taken in Le Monde, showed that 1/3 of those polled wanted Saddam Hussein to win this war.
mmh, that is stupid, I agree...

But you know, you gotta be here to see how americas reaction toward France was felt by the people. That include listening to americans stating that France should be bombed next after Iraq in the evening news

I was also concerned by a small group of mindless idiots that wrote anti american inscription in one of the UK soldiers WW2 memorial in Pas de Calais.

Everyone are getting a little too emotional about this war, and I guess we have to admit it, we are as well.

For that matter, I won't conclude to quick that France is merely hoping that this scumbag Saddam would win.

malice

( why do I feel like an ambassador here ? )
Old 2nd April 2003
  #559
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malice's Avatar
 

is it possible to delete post here ?
Old 2nd April 2003
  #560
Lives for gear
 

Hey Malice,

FWIW, there is no way I would hold the French people responsible for some idiots who decided to defile that British gravesite. Yes, it's awful, but every country has a lunatic fringe. I don't think reasonable people take that to represent the many fine people in your country.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd April 2003
  #561
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malice's Avatar
 

thanx for those words Brian.

I think Chirac is about thinking about an official press conference to remind some of the french population were our feelings and support goes in this matter. He always opposed to the war, but as made it rather clear that since US are in Iraq, he would welcome the end of Saddam regime gladdly, he even said that in case of a chemical attack from Iraq, France would engage the conflict in the coalition.
How come people wouldn't understand such simple statement ?

best regards

malice
Old 2nd April 2003
  #562
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by malice
is it possible to delete post here ?
Yes,
when you click on "edit" of the post in question, after the editing window has opened in the upper part on the left and right corner there are the corresponding buttons for deleting.

Greets,

Ruphus
Old 2nd April 2003
  #563
How do you "attach strings" to a flying carpet?

"Incredible. I think the intensity of this issue is bringing to the surface all manner of heretofore hidden feelings, all over the world. In one sense, it's probably a good thing to know what other people really think"

Brian it's all action & reaction and in a state of flux.

In Vietnam I am sure you could fill a clipboard quickly with names of people that hated the USA for its actions at the time, but years on after that conflict, I am sure you could tear up many pages of that long list...

Instead of compiling a hatred directory for future reference and future punitive sanctions how about pausing instaed to examine the cause of it? Or do you find that unreasonable because American tax payers might have bought that country something or may have sent aid to it in the past?

Should aid to foreign countries come with a contract attached? Many of your posts allude to this IMHO.

EG

"In accepting this parcel or assistance you agree to turn a blind eye to future actions by the USA you might otherwise find abhorrent, states taxes & statutory right apply"

Does all help have to have a "catch"? I dont feel that is very 'Christian' and certainly, it's no definition of the word charity.

Right now a LOT of 3rd world countries are forming opinions and you simply have to forgive them for not having an "I borrowed your lawnmower last weekend, here is it back" American style debt honour. It's different cultures and social styles we are dealing with nowadays..

Your thoughts?
Old 2nd April 2003
  #564
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Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 

With a mouth the size of Texas, I'll give this is shot...

Quote:
Should aid to foreign countries come with a contract attached? Many of your posts allude to this IMHO
Simply put, yes. Aid is essentially the US taxpayers digging into our pockets a bit more and providing money and services to those who don't have what we consider basic essentials. I assume that even the most US-hating fanatic would say this is a decent thing to do (although to some, what we give to other nations is never enough...like THEY would ever fork over a Dollar/Euro/whathaveyou).

That being said, the US is under no obligation to provide financial aid to anyone...if we are kind enough to provide billions of dollars to help a nation, the LEAST that nation could do in return is support the US when we need it, even if through no other actions as public support for policy. I don't think its unreasonable for a bank to demand that when a customer gets money for free the customer will refrain from running around and advertising how the donor bank is evil and using bank funds to terrorise the lending/giving establishment, or support those who do.

I would suspect that when the war is over and Saddam is nothing more than dust, the US will seriously revise our foreign aid policies; no assistance=no money other than food...passive aggression against the US=no money whatsoever...hostile aggression=that nation has defaulted and we're coming to repo...

Perhaps if we started using the biliions and billions of foreign aid gifts internally, we could address many of our own issues instead...I for one have a real hard time sending money to feed hungry people in (fill in the blank) when there are hungry kids at home...
Old 2nd April 2003
  #565
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT
"Dumbass American soldiers" "who seem to like shooting Arabs in cars"
Yes, as in the idiots I've recently seen jumping up and down on the tops of tanks whilst sprouting absolute unintelligable bull**** ("it was like...whoaahh, and I was like,er....whoahh"). Those types of dumbass'.

Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT

Do you think in some insane firefight in the desert at 5AM with no sleep, that somebody thought, "Yeah, I'll kill some of my own guys. That will be great." No, that person will live in a nightmare of guilt, likely forever, from a decision they made in a split second, in the most intense danger a human can know. Hey, but don't let that stop you from your second guessing. It's easy....nobody is shooting at you.
How do you know this? Second guessing?
I went to a wedding last year in Cambridge, UK, with my brother. It was my brother's good friend and colleague who was getting wed and my brother was best man.
It was quite a "military" wedding, full of uniforms, as my brother is an Avionics Engineer with the RAF and the groom just so happened to be the co-pilot of the Tornado that my brother maintained, and treated like his own at RAF Marham. As you can imagine, the relationship becomes quite personal between guys in this situation.
This was the same Tornado that was shot down by a US patriot missile ("friendly fire") on Mar 23 and onboard was my brother's good friend. My brother was understandably deeply upset, even devastated, by what happened, and his first thoughts were to get himself down to RAF Marham to be with his friends wife and kids, and to await and assist in the returning of his body. My brother was not himself when he left on Mar 25 for Marham, I knew it and I wasn't surprised when I received a phone call from the Police telling me he'd had a car crash, not 20 miles from home. Thankfully, he was moved from intensive care last night to a recovery ward having had his spleen removed and internal bleeding stemmed.
Yesterday I answered the phone to the Co-Pilot's widow asking how my brother was. I found it hard to know what to say to her.
All in all, a pretty ****ed up couple of weeks that has all been caused due to this war, in my eyes.

BrianT, it would be easy to turn your "second guessing" statement back to you, but I really wouldn't want to do that to you or anyone as it's unfair to use the above on someone who doesn't know the background, but at present I can't see it from the point of view of the American guy who "has to live with his actions" because there are things happening closer to home that effect me directly. It is currently the same with my brother, he's not blaming whoever unleashed a missile at his friend but he's not "feeling for him" either. I agree that those responsible for "friendly fire" will have to face up to their own demons. However, when I see footage of US troops giving each other high fives standing on tops of tanks this annoys the f%*k out of me. I know they are probably in the minority and the media are portraying everything in an unbalanced fashion, but it annoys both me and my brother.

Incidentally, my brother also knows I'm opposed to this war and he has told me on numerous occassions that "he has a job to do", which is the same response of several other guys I know who are involved in the war, which means they tend to feel the same as I do.
So, to me, the irony of being told that it's easy for me to be a "backseat driver", or whatever it was, is that it is the US regime and our own lapdog Blair-lead government who can make the decision to send my family and friends into this, whilst they keep their suits and hands clean. It is not I who is the backseat driver/armchair general, it's the ****ing asshole politicians, as usual.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #566
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 

Ditto... Midlandmorgan (re: US taxpayers & foreign aid)
Old 2nd April 2003
  #567
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

What I know about foreign aid is that it is an easy way to transfer tax money into private money.
The rest goes for a big part in the pockets of the lackeys and "friends" in the corresponding countries, thus what you finally can expect gratefulness for is what remains as actually handed over to the deserving people.

I don´t think people are all so ungrateful, especially those lackeys and friends. You could ask e.g. Shell & co. They should be confirming how nicely they have been treated, - if they´d trusted the questioner.

Ruphus
Old 2nd April 2003
  #568
RE - Should aid to foreign countries come with a contract attached? Many of your posts allude to this IMHO

"'Simply put, yes. Aid is essentially the US taxpayers digging into our pockets a bit more and providing money and services to those who don't have what we consider basic essentials. I assume that even the most US-hating fanatic would say this is a decent thing to do"

Dont hold your breath!

"That being said, the US is under no obligation to provide financial aid to anyone.."

This is incorect. The bill for reconstruction of an invaded country legally falls squarely on the invaders. USA & UK.

"If we are kind enough to provide billions of dollars to help a nation, the LEAST that nation could do in return is support the US when we need it , even if through no other actions as public support for policy"

Would you suggest every school kid gets a "who helped you" training course? perhaps with some American history thrown in too? Some basic education on how America is "number one" or "the greatest nation on earth" Who Abrham Lincoln & George Washington are? What do you think?

"I don't think its unreasonable for a bank to demand that when a customer gets money for free the customer will refrain from running around and advertising how the donor bank is evil and using bank funds to terrorise the lending/giving establishment, or support those who do."

"Unreasonable"?, OK how on earth do you feel this should be enforced?

I would suspect that when the war is over and Saddam is nothing more than dust, the US will seriously revise our foreign aid policies; no assistance=no money other than food...passive aggression against the US=no money whatsoever...hostile aggression=that nation has defaulted and we're coming to repo..."

Scary as kicking stuff, no wonder diffrent cultures grow to despise US forign policy.

This long term plan presumes

Americans go along with a "worlds police" global policy and continue to fund it.
Americans are willing to fund global aid to 'the good guys'
Americans are willing to suffer casualties while global 'punishment' is meeted out to those that don't toe the line
Americans are willing to assume the mantle "leaders of the world" and deal with hatred that is bound to accompany that.

I frankly doubt the next US president will get voted in on that ticket, but I could be wrong.
Old 2nd April 2003
  #569
Lives for gear
 

Carl,

I appreciate your sentiments. But I still have one question for you.

Do you really think American soldiers enjoy shooting Arab women and children in cars? Do you? Or was that just anger speaking, maybe understandably?


Regards,
Brian T
Old 2nd April 2003
  #570
Some cheery observations for a change!

Firstly - the dusting off, "go on, f**k off and don't come back" hand motions I see Iraq'is making when showing soldiers what they think of Saddam is encoraging!

Secondly - The young black army spokesperson giving out the daily reports at the coalition HQ is a MASTER of public speaking, the skill with which he fields questions from reporters is truly astounding. Rumsfeld & Fliesher come off as smug PITA's but this guy has a BIG future I am sure.

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