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Whatever Happened to Punk/DIY/Indie...
Old 9th September 2007
  #1
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Whatever Happened to Punk/DIY/Indie...

here's a question. Whatever happened to the DIY, punk and indie ethic? i know alot of people won't even give this thread another look, but im sure there are a few out there who remember the old school hardwork/DIY ethic of small indie bands back in the day. the Chicago and Kansas/Midwest scene.... I mean, whatever happened to the rough recordings done in 24 hours, or the hand screen printed tshirts from the salvation army.... and VINYL.... 7"s and 10"s... crappy vans that bearly made it accross country, and labels that DIDN'T make stupid amounts of money, and didn't "own" their bands. it seems like that type of stuff has gone out the window with myspace, hot topic and ashlee simpson. i just think it's too bad. those were fun times.
Old 9th September 2007
  #2
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My nephew's band is a good example of a DIY ethic. They're everything you said, except for the vinyl. They're young, have a very dedicated following, tour in mom's old stationwagon, screenprint their own shirts, hand out homemade, hand-drawn, recordings at gigs. etc. They even open for themselves sometimes as a a tongue-in-cheek, alter ego band called "Genital Uppercut" where they all play different instruments.

MySpace.com - Revolta - ARNOLD - Thrash / Metal - www.myspace.com/revolta <== He's the drummer.

I don't think myspace has much to do with the perceived lack of a DIY ethic. If anything it's magnified it, co-opted it, and given kids like my nephew the hope that they can play the music that they want to play and find an audience that will listen without selling their soul to a label.

Personally, I'm not sure I even know what selling out means, but "not" doing it seems to matter to him.
Old 9th September 2007
  #3
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backplay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewsLaneRec. View Post
here's a question. Whatever happened to the DIY, punk and indie ethic?
It died when Green Day & The Offspring became punk

No really... It still exists, but at a much smaller scale than it used to.
And the scene has shifted a bit here in europe. It isn't per se only punk & rock orientated. It is more DIY related than it is music related, let me explain.
I used to play in a punk-crustcore band (the guys who look like they have pineappels on their head ), we played for beer, gas and food in squads and autonomous centers. Played alot of benefits for all kinds of organisations, human & animal rights, well you know the kind... Recorded our stuff in no time, all with people with alot of love for the music, NOT the money.
Alot of these people i now see in the electronica - breakcore scene (NOT dance or house music or all that other stuff commerce has put their hands on), who still have the same mentality of just having fun without all the money ****. They are alot of labels and artist who now instead of their guitars travel with their laptops and do the same stuff as we did with our instruments: make noize, entertain people, DIY and just have fun!

I am really happy that the old wall between guitars and synths has broken down and the DIY mentality still stands. No more predjudice about that a laptop or a synth isn't a real instruments.I can understand that in the US there may still be that wall.
Old 9th September 2007
  #4
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I think what happened to the DIY scene is that it succeeded. Many services that were controlled only by record labels have become available to the bands themselves. For example, there are a few local T-shirt printers that can produce shirts cheaper than if their clients bought the materials and did it themselves.
I play in a band that has managed to make it somewhere using some of the DIY mentality. I think it is a lot easier than most people realize. It just takes some hard work and education.
Also, I think that there are a good number of bands that follow the DIY ethic that may not seem like it due to professional looking products. It is getting easier and cheaper to make decent sounding recordings than it was back in the 80s.

If you're bored, check out MySpace.com - Endive - SUNY Fredonia / Ithaca / Syracuse, New York - www.myspace.com/endive We have some stuff up that I think would be classified as DIY (It was recorded ourselves and mixed by a close friend).
Old 9th September 2007
  #5
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I
Quote:
t died when Green Day & The Offspring became punk

No really... It still exists, but at a much smaller scale than it used to.
And the scene has shifted a bit here in europe. It isn't per se only punk & rock orientated. It is more DIY related than it is music related, let me explain.
I used to play in a punk-crustcore band (the guys who look like they have pineappels on their head ), we played for beer, gas and food in squads and autonomous centers. Played alot of benefits for all kinds of organisations, human & animal rights, well you know the kind... Recorded our stuff in no time, all with people with alot of love for the music, NOT the money.
Alot of these people i now see in the electronica - breakcore scene (NOT dance or house music or all that other stuff commerce has put their hands on), who still have the same mentality of just having fun without all the money ****. They are alot of labels and artist who now instead of their guitars travel with their laptops and do the same stuff as we did with our instruments: make noize, entertain people, DIY and just have fun!

I am really happy that the old wall between guitars and synths has broken down and the DIY mentality still stands. No more predjudice about that a laptop or a synth isn't a real instruments.I can understand that in the US there may still be that wall.
to an extent electronic music is the new punk. it sounds that most people don't understand. but the diy ethic is going strong with independent songwriters and musicians. i was into the hardcore scene in the early 80's and that has had a great influence on me to continue to create for the rest of my life regardless of any commercial success. now that's punk ethics 101.

MySpace.com - Snuzz - Winston Salem, North Carolina - Alternative - www.myspace.com/snuzz
Old 10th September 2007
  #6
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snüzz View Post
electronic music is the new punk.

I don't think so.
Old 10th September 2007
  #7
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DIY is going strong in Olympia WA. DIY is still going strong in the midwest last time I checked too. have friends in Iowa that play tons of DIY shows.

I think you've just lost track of it. perhaps you don't know where the house shows are happening... or the scene shifted and you missed it.
I assure you that it IS still happening.
Old 10th September 2007
  #8
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lucey's Avatar
On the one hand, we're in an 80s like environment where commercial is cool, and there is no innocence to punk/DIY ... it's now a genre. On the other, it's gone further underground as the pop-ier elements were absorbed by labels. In many respects it's been tainted by the success of a few. Unfortunately around here what used to be an open scene can have an attitude that real punk never had. You actually can play? Threatening. Some of the guys over 40 are still doing it.
Old 10th September 2007
  #9
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in 21 years of being in nyc, i feel like less people care about music now that
at any other point in my life and in my life in nyc.......
the ball was dropped.

lots of bad indie diy bands got publicists and became as fraudulent as their
major label counterparts

the kids who care really care as they always have, i just think the music
business as a whole - both the major labels and the "indies" did not deliver
too much over the past 15 years - they did not inculcate a suspense or
an anticipation.......
as in all relationships, trust is a result of work and must be earned - the
greatest record label could be born in the next five years if the right people
stumble upon one another......and agree to an unbetrayed standard
two generations of kids raised on **** and not real playing, make it lost, and
mysterious like alchemy....



be well


- jack
Old 10th September 2007
  #10
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by backplay View Post
It died when Green Day & The Offspring became punk
Beat me to it...
Old 10th September 2007
  #11
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Quote:
I don't think so.
i was trying to acknowledge the post above mine that some of the energy from the underground has shifted from punk to electronic music. that has happened. you took my post out of context. maybe you should look into politics.
Old 10th September 2007
  #12
Gear Addict
 

I think DIY will make a huge comeback in the next few years. With record labels crumbling, someone is going to have to pick up the slack. It will revert to people who really want to do it for the love instead of people trying to do it to make as much money as possible. All business models will still be around, but there IMHO be a shift. I think myspace is a great DIY tool. More people owning their own recording rigs, right or wrong, will contribute to the DIY eithic.

Someone in a simliar chat room brought up the fact that punk is not around anymore, which I thought ubsurd. He said there was no largescale genre that was called punk. I think to a point he is right, but I dont think punk as a whole does things "mainstream". Alot of punk bands are still DIY and tour on their own buck. The target their fans and play the heck out of venues. Just becuase a band isnt on MTV doesnt mean its not out there making music and fans.
Old 10th September 2007
  #13
Gear Head
 

I wonder if the RIAA will find a way to charge DIY/Indie projects (sh*t . . . I don't want to give them any ideas . . . )?

RIAA: DIY/Indie projects will now be monitored by the RIAA to make sure these DIY/Indie projects are paying dues. If the aforementioned DIY/Indie projects are not paying, then the RIAA has the right to pursue legal action. The recording labels, namely Sony BMG, EMI, Universal, and Warner, and the recording industry in general, fear that DIY/Indie projects are hurting their businesses.
Old 10th September 2007
  #14
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by backplay View Post
It died when Green Day & The Offspring became punk
I remember seeing Green Day when they were pups. They were about as D.I.Y. as you could get.
Old 11th September 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
I remember seeing Green Day when they were pups. They were about as D.I.Y. as you could get.
Saw them at Gilman St. in the late 80s, where they'd just made some salvation army shirts with stencils, threw out a bunch of the glow-in-the-dark juice out of Cylume light sticks calling it a "laser light show that'll knock your socks off" --total mess, then chucked a garbage bag full of packing foam bits to sop it up from the middle of the pit.

Good times.

Something changed along the line.
Old 11th September 2007
  #16
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Green Day & The Offspring are amazing (except for the Offspring's last 3 albums.)

What happened to Punk/DIY? Crush studios is cheaper?
Old 11th September 2007
  #17
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no, i know it's still going on, but i think it's changed. it's not so DIY anymore, Punk Planet is no longer (RIP), once indie magazines are now owned by bigger publishers, etc.... trust me, i know things are going on... it was just my little niche that i feel has changed so much. i mean, i've been playing in hardcore and indie bands for almost 10 years now, and it's definitely changed. it seems like it's more about fashion, and tattoos, and who knows who, as opposed to how tight and original your music is.
Old 11th September 2007
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hangman View Post
DIY is going strong in Olympia WA. DIY is still going strong in the midwest last time I checked too. have friends in Iowa that play tons of DIY shows.

I think you've just lost track of it. perhaps you don't know where the house shows are happening... or the scene shifted and you missed it.
I assure you that it IS still happening.
i wouldn't exactly say STRONG... i mean most of the good stuff (casket lottery, Get Up Kids, Sunny Day, etc... are no longer) oh, and chicago lost punk planet. that in itsself is a weakness!
Old 11th September 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

The DIY ethic is still alive, but it has mutated. Most of the kids in the 'punk' scene now came up on Green Day, and the Offspring. So to them DIY means taking mom's visa to GC and buying an SG, dual Rectifier, Mbox, and some cheap mics. voila instant band. No more workin your ass off to save up for one day of studio time. No more long nights at kinko's cut and pasting together flyers and inserts for 7"s that you had to pawn your tv to press. I'm 39 now, and have been active in the punk scene on and off since 1982. Now I play in a rockabilly/rock and roll band. It's totally a DIY entity. We don't have management, publicists, or booking agents. We all take a hand in booking and promoting. We do our recording in the attic of our drummers garage. (thanks to a meager inheritance he has some nice gear). We roll around in a 1991 ford econoline that until last week didn't have air conditioning. And amazingly enough, we make a living.


I guess what I'm saying is that DIY is not dead, I just think that you have to look outside the so-called 'punk' scene to find it. Most of the kids that were really into the DIY thing, have grown up and moved on to different musics.

cheers
g
Old 12th September 2007
  #20
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-silent-sam-'s Avatar
 

There is a strong DIY / Indie in Canada. More so in Winnipeg and Montreal
Old 12th September 2007
  #21
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLakis View Post
Green Day & The Offspring are amazing (except for the Offspring's last 3 albums.)
How can you be amazing if your last 3 albums have sucked?
Old 12th September 2007
  #22
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by snüzz View Post
i was trying to acknowledge the post above mine that some of the energy from the underground has shifted from punk to electronic music. that has happened. you took my post out of context. maybe you should look into politics.
I took it out of context because that is not what you said.

Why do you think I'm not up on politics?
Old 12th September 2007
  #23
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AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
How can you be amazing if your last 3 albums have sucked?
I dunno, is Paul Mccartney an amazing songwriter? What about his last 50 albums? Is "Across the Universe" any less of a song because Lennon released a bunch of later stuff with Yoko screaming all over it?

Bands can fall from grace, but does that degrade the quality of their earlier work somehow?

It's not like the Offspring were amazing musicians, but I think Dexter's songwriting on their first five albums was excellent.

So, I guess if you wanna play semantics, The Offspring were amazing, at least to me. Better?

P.S. Are there still a lot of strong 'Zine scenes around? I remember there used to be a couple around here and now there's, like, none...
Old 12th September 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLakis View Post
P.S. Are there still a lot of strong 'Zine scenes around? I remember there used to be a couple around here and now there's, like, none...
After i don't remember how many years Profane Existence is still strong!

https://www.profaneexistence.com/
Old 12th September 2007
  #25
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I think you may all be missing it. How old are all of you? DIY is alive and well and probably bigger and wider than it ever was. It's EVERYWHERE, not just certain big city or college scenes. Bands from every nook and cranny and backwood. Amazing bands. Epic instrumental bands that would make Daniel Lanois cry, electronic hardcore bands, and the vast metalcore groups who've taken punk, metal, hardcore, whathaveyou and discarded the posturing and politics and simply rock out. I came across a couple that really knocked me out and that led me to more. Fear Before the March of Flames record The Always Open Mouth was on auto repeat in my place for a couple weeks. I don't know when the last time I kept listening to an album over and over again like that.Yes it will make you feel old if you're over 25. I'm 36. Most of these folks were in diapers when I first picked up an instrument and it makes me feel ancient but the music is good. Quit complaining. If you don't know just find yourself some 15 year olds in your neighborhood on their bmx bikes with and ask them what they're listening to. Emo or whatever schlock that's floating on the pop culture surface is probably conspicuously absent. Sure some of the music may not lift you if you grew up on Fugazi, Black Flag, and the first couple Metallica albums but it's just as good. Then there are some that don't echo anyone. I was also laughing having a conversation with the studio owner's 15 year old son about bands and it was a little odd that we had a few things in common. The kids are definitely alright.
Old 12th September 2007
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grahluk View Post
I think you may all be missing it. How old are all of you? DIY is alive and well and probably bigger and wider than it ever was. It's EVERYWHERE, not just certain big city or college scenes. Bands from every nook and cranny and backwood. Amazing bands. Epic instrumental bands that would make Daniel Lanois cry, electronic hardcore bands, and the vast metalcore groups who've taken punk, metal, hardcore, whathaveyou and discarded the posturing and politics and simply rock out. I came across a couple that really knocked me out and that led me to more. Fear Before the March of Flames record The Always Open Mouth was on auto repeat in my place for a couple weeks. I don't know when the last time I kept listening to an album over and over again like that.Yes it will make you feel old if you're over 25. I'm 36. Most of these folks were in diapers when I first picked up an instrument and it makes me feel ancient but the music is good. Quit complaining. If you don't know just find yourself some 15 year olds in your neighborhood on their bmx bikes with and ask them what they're listening to. Emo or whatever schlock that's floating on the pop culture surface is probably conspicuously absent. Sure some of the music may not lift you if you grew up on Fugazi, Black Flag, and the first couple Metallica albums but it's just as good. Then there are some that don't echo anyone. I was also laughing having a conversation with the studio owner's 15 year old son about bands and it was a little odd that we had a few things in common. The kids are definitely alright.
dude, it's the moan zone. i'll complain if i want to. All im trying to say is that it seems like being in a subculture scene has changed. like that other guy said.... no more long nights at kinko's pressing inserts and flyers... no more selling fake drugs at a Phish concert to press your split 7"(cave-in).... it seems like everything has gotten SOO accessable to the world, and what was a small niche that i loved and enjoyed... is now either huge or gone. and to everyone else, like i said... I KNOW it's still around. i know DIY exists. i mean, my studio is right outside a nice little artist town where alot of the musicians there are still very DIY, etc... but again, it feels like it's changed, or the newer generation of kids in the scenes im used to are doing it completely differently, and even have the nerve to turn their noses up to what came long before them.
Old 30th September 2007
  #27
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Makinithappen's Avatar
 

It's still there. I know plenty of bands still scraping together cash for split 7"s and screening shirts in their basement. Man... that was a fun scene.
Old 30th September 2007
  #28
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PhilR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewsLaneRec. View Post
here's a question. Whatever happened to the DIY, punk and indie ethic? i know alot of people won't even give this thread another look, but im sure there are a few out there who remember the old school hardwork/DIY ethic of small indie bands back in the day. the Chicago and Kansas/Midwest scene.... I mean, whatever happened to the rough recordings done in 24 hours, or the hand screen printed tshirts from the salvation army.... and VINYL.... 7"s and 10"s... crappy vans that bearly made it accross country, and labels that DIDN'T make stupid amounts of money, and didn't "own" their bands. it seems like that type of stuff has gone out the window with myspace, hot topic and ashlee simpson. i just think it's too bad. those were fun times.
Seems pretty alive and well here in the UK. Nearly all my studios business has been for that kind of band.
Old 30th September 2007
  #29
Gear Addict
 

You're lucky man. everyone's either got their own recording rigs or they've gotten picked up by labels and gotten sent somewhere else. i think the diy scene has just kind of gone south here.
Old 1st October 2007
  #30
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Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascottk View Post
I wonder if the RIAA will find a way to charge DIY/Indie projects (sh*t . . . I don't want to give them any ideas . . . )?

RIAA: DIY/Indie projects will now be monitored by the RIAA to make sure these DIY/Indie projects are paying dues. If the aforementioned DIY/Indie projects are not paying, then the RIAA has the right to pursue legal action. The recording labels, namely Sony BMG, EMI, Universal, and Warner, and the recording industry in general, fear that DIY/Indie projects are hurting their businesses.
Well that's already happening to some degree...

iTunes, Digstation... Tunecore... they all report to Soundscan.

Personally I see it as a GOOD thing.

The interknot has leveled the playing field.

Well, not entirely yet... but it's getting closer!

If the majors were putting out "good" music and letting bands break the way there were 20 years ago rather then forcefeeding the public through Clearchannel then things might be different.

They wouldn't have to fear the attack of the indies.
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