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get RID of this guy as moderator Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 5th September 2007
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
I still think it's an issue that you should each take up with Tony individually. If you want out of the pre-order, then say so. If there's no way out of the pre-order and it stated that in the terms of purchase, then I can see how your upset... but I'm sure the DVD will come about and feel that it will still be quite relevant.

Think, in the time that you have put efforts into thinking about this, complaining about it, etc... you could have billed a few hours of studio time instead and actually made some money. Simply put, whining isn't worth it. Literally.

I'm working on instructional DVDs and DVDs of conferences of this software called "Plone" that my company works with. Nothing audio related, so I wouldn't even bother looking it up unless you are looking for an advanced CMS for your website. But the point is that getting it together takes a LOT if you want it to be high quality. There's hiccups, and problems.

I'm also juggling working a "day job" and working on releasing a guitar pedal (and then two more and an amp) for commercial release and distribution. Oh, and I still would love a few hours to practice guitar/bass/drums/keyboards and write songs each day too. And there's a non-profit that I'm working to get off the ground. Yes, my life is nuts.

But my point being, I understand when things fall behind. I'm sure each of you have had things slip on schedule with your own individual studio businesses. Things happen.

This isn't worth bashing others over, or slandering others names. Remember we're all in this (somewhat sinking) ship together and should work as such.

I personally wouldn't want the job of moderator, but at the same time I don't feel that just because I'm releasing music products (soon) to be a severe conflict of interest.

It's no more of a conflict of interest to sell gear here, than to say... own a studio that does mixing. Someone might ask, "What's a hot place to mix my stuff?".

I don't exactly see Tony pushing his gear too much.
Old 5th September 2007
  #32
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post


It's no more of a conflict of interest to sell gear here, than to say... own a studio that does mixing. Someone might ask, "What's a hot place to mix my stuff?".

I don't exactly see Tony pushing his gear too much.
Ha!c That's really funny! Tony pushes his gear in every single post that he makes!
Don't tell me that you haven't seen the huge advertising banner telling you that he sells gear!
I thinks it's a huge conflict of interest for him to moderate the forum to gullible gearslutz while pushing his gear.
How do we know that his advice is not based on the product that he currently has in stock, and with his DVD exploits, and don't think we are too far away from the day he tells us that he is developing plugins! which will of course be available by pre-order.
Tony missed a great opportunity to clear up his reputation by refusing the poster the opportunity to see for himself that the DVD will eventually ship as a legitimate product.
As an impartial observer, I wouldn't believe the word of anybody else except the poster, because I'm sure that we will eventually hear that it has finally been released, and a few "satisfied customers" will post about how pleased they are with their purchase, and how it was worth the long wait.
Of course no one will be able to verify the authenticity of these claims because we are all effectively locked out because we didn't pre-order.
The whole situation is ridiculous, and based on Belmonts' attitude to this legitimate customer, I would never risk doing any kind of business with High Profile audio
Old 5th September 2007
  #33
Art
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Art's Avatar
 

I think that some people forget that this is a privately owned site. Moderators can ban you for whatever reason they see fit. Although, I think in this case the banning was quite warrnated, the internet is full of people behaving like lunatics, and I think it really reduces the quality of forums like GS. If someone does not like the way this "privately owned forum" operates they can choose to not be a part of it. I personally would not miss all of the whiners who hide in these forums and behave in a way they would never do in the person, for fear that they would get all of their limbs broken. In any case, I am shocked at what the mods actually allow here, I would be pleased if they tightened up the guidelines on what is appropriate, this site should be educational not the high school drama club (no offense to the thespians).

Art
Old 5th September 2007
  #34
Art
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Art's Avatar
 

So what if Tony advertises his gear, The sites owner seems to think that is fine, that is his right. It puzzles me why people feel that they have some given right to govern this forum. It puzzles me.
Old 5th September 2007
  #35
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
So what if Tony advertises his gear, The sites owner seems to think that is fine, that is his right. It puzzles me why people feel that they have some given right to govern this forum. It puzzles me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
I think that some people forget that this is a privately owned site. Moderators can ban you for whatever reason they see fit. Although, I think in this case the banning was quite warrnated, the internet is full of people behaving like lunatics, and I think it really reduces the quality of forums like GS. If someone does not like the way this "privately owned forum" operates they can choose to not be a part of it. I personally would not miss all of the whiners who hide in these forums and behave in a way they would never do in the person, for fear that they would get all of their limbs broken.

Art
As far as breaking limbs and being scared ..Come on man Please.. if you take the time to really think before you defend your pimp- Tony has my information because i am waiting on him to deliver me a product that doesnt yet exist....Please take your head out of this mans ass and see the Light.... Very irratating to have to keep telling other supposedly grown men to deal with facts not emotions for another man they love so much for whatever reasons.... He will not make you rich or a star if you kiss up to him!
Old 5th September 2007
  #36
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
So what if Tony advertises his gear, The sites owner seems to think that is fine, that is his right. It puzzles me why people feel that they have some given right to govern this forum. It puzzles me.
It is a conflict of interest pure and simple, and while this may well be a privately owned forum, while it is being used to solicit money from members of the public with no product in sight, my interest is awakened.

Commercial fraud is against the law in pretty much all of the territories that are covered by the internet

This can easily become a very serious matter.
Old 6th September 2007
  #37
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thashine07 View Post
As far as breaking limbs and being scared ..Come on man Please.. if you take the time to really think before you defend your pimp- Tony has my information because i am waiting on him to deliver me a product that doesnt yet exist....Please take your head out of this mans ass and see the Light.... Very irratating to have to keep telling other supposedly grown men to deal with facts not emotions for another man they love so much for whatever reasons.... He will not make you rich or a star if you kiss up to him!
You are not receiving ANY product from me. As stated before, I am giving you a refund and do NOT want to do business with you in any way shape or form.

PLEASE EMAIL ME FROM THE ADDRESS YOU PAID WITH!
Old 6th September 2007
  #38
Lives for gear
 
emkay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall View Post
I nominate myself for moderator of the Hip-Hop forum.. Then I could just delete the whole forum



AMEN!!!
Old 6th September 2007
  #39
Lives for gear
 
heathen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall View Post
I agree with SSL.. moderating is a thankless, payless, perkless job. Who cares if a guy who moderates makes a sale or 2?
Everyone has the option of not purchasing.

Besides, I really want to moderate the moan zone. I think my antoganistic, aggitating personality would fit right in. heh not!

Randall for president!
Old 6th September 2007
  #40
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
If it's not talking about gear, it doesn't belong here.
thumbsup
Old 6th September 2007
  #41
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpel View Post
It is a conflict of interest pure and simple, and while this may well be a privately owned forum, while it is being used to solicit money from members of the public with no product in sight, my interest is awakened.

Commercial fraud is against the law in pretty much all of the territories that are covered by the internet

This can easily become a very serious matter.
The laws against defamation are very solid as well...

The laws regarding defamation apply to Internet as they do anywhere else.

Some of the things I have read over the last 48 hours are borderline defamation of my name and business. If not outright defamation/ slander and harassment..
Old 6th September 2007
  #42
Lives for gear
 
emkay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
Here's my .02.

There are two separate issues, the DVD issue and the moderator/gear seller conflict issue.

With respect to the DVD issue, I am one of those folks who also pre-ordered the DVD over a year ago. And while I'm disappointed in the delays that have taken place, having done business and bought gear from Tony in the past, I don't worry that something "fishy" has taken place. This is obviously the first such project Tony ever tried to undertake, and clearly grossly underestimated the amount of time and work that would be required to put into it.

So yes, I would say he made some bad errors in business judgement and projections, but to me it's far from qualifying as anything insidious or malicious. If he were out to screw anyone, his whole business would be dead, as the engineering and gear community is a pretty tight knit one and word travels fast. And the fact that Tony gave thashine a full refund pretty much confirms that whatever mistakes he's made in handling the whole DVD production are not intentional. Therefore I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I can understand the anger or frustration of thashine or others. When people pay their hard earned money to someone, that's a very special fiduciary bond that must be respected and handled diligently by the seller. In this case, I suspect Tony learned from his mistake here and will likely never again accept "pre-orders" on a product that doesn't yet exist. As they say, live and learn.

As far as the moderator conflict issue, I can see where that would be problematic. And I agree it's probably better to have non gear sellers be moderators, so that there isn't even a hint of impropriety. At any given time, there are hundreds of users on GS, surely we can find a few reliable long time members to fill the positions...

Well said........
Old 6th September 2007
  #43
Gear Nut
 
pinwale's Avatar
 

Caveat Emptor.

As for the "moderated by dealer" aspect - well, If this were some walk of life that were more "important" than an internet forum, having it led by someone whose every action on it serves effectively as an advertisement (banner in sigfile, at the very least) would easily be an illegal antitrust violation. It would be as if the The Lancet Journal (or the Journal of the American Medical Association) were full of articles penned by well-informed pharmaceutical sales-reps.

Maybe they are. Blurrgh!

Not good either way.

By all appearances, Tony seems like a reasonable and friendly guy. With no harm to him intended in saying so, I feel he would be more appropriate on a forum like this as a poster, not a moderator, and even there there'd be a blurriness and questionability about self-service cloaked as altruistic contribution in his posts. (as there is with every other so called 'pimp' posting here)

Respectfully,
Old 6th September 2007
  #44
Lives for gear
 
emkay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
I think that some people forget that this is a privately owned site. Moderators can ban you for whatever reason they see fit. Although, I think in this case the banning was quite warrnated, the internet is full of people behaving like lunatics, and I think it really reduces the quality of forums like GS. If someone does not like the way this "privately owned forum" operates they can choose to not be a part of it. I personally would not miss all of the whiners who hide in these forums and behave in a way they would never do in the person, for fear that they would get all of their limbs broken. In any case, I am shocked at what the mods actually allow here, I would be pleased if they tightened up the guidelines on what is appropriate, this site should be educational not the high school drama club (no offense to the thespians).

Art
Firstly, I think you're intimating that this guy is "behaving like a lunatic" is a stretch, secondly, I don't consider voicing one's complaint about not getting what you paid for as "whining"! I am certainly NOT taking sides or criticising you! I agree that no one has to participate at GS if they don't want to and I also agree that the moderaters should really clamp down on racists and abusive posts.......or start a site called GearSmut....
Old 6th September 2007
  #45
Art
Gear Addict
 
Art's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thashine07 View Post
As far as breaking limbs and being scared ..Come on man Please.. if you take the time to really think before you defend your pimp- Tony has my information because i am waiting on him to deliver me a product that doesnt yet exist....Please take your head out of this mans ass and see the Light.... Very irratating to have to keep telling other supposedly grown men to deal with facts not emotions for another man they love so much for whatever reasons.... He will not make you rich or a star if you kiss up to him!
I have never met, purchased anything from or even spoken to tony. What do you have to say about that? My opinions are based purely on your childish playground antics.
Old 6th September 2007
  #46
Lives for gear
 
trickydicky's Avatar
 

It's quite simple to me... If someone takes money for a product which is not realistically going to be available in the near future claiming that it would be, they should refund every single customer they took money from without question. Even if it was an honest mistake.

I agree that offering a discount on other products as compensation is a very sly (and dark) way of making people feel better about a **** situation whilst simultaneously encouraging them to spend more money.

In the UK, we have something called the 'Sale of Goods Act' which, I believe, would cover such an event - check your country's law to see if you have a similar thing.

I'm sorry but in my opinion, to have this sort of behavior from a retailer on a website like this is definitely not cool.
Old 6th September 2007
  #47
Art
Gear Addict
 
Art's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emkay View Post
Firstly, I think you're intimating that this guy is "behaving like a lunatic" is a stretch, secondly, I don't consider voicing one's complaint about not getting what you paid for as "whining"! I am certainly NOT taking sides or criticising you! I agree that no one has to participate at GS if they don't want to and I also agree that the moderaters should really clamp down on racists and abusive posts.......or start a site called GearSmut....
have you read all of his deleted posts? He was offered a refund but still keeps whining, why? He is hiding behind the Internet and speaking in a completely disrespectful manner, why? He is calling everyone who has a differing opinion childish names, even if they spoke to him respectfully, why? I'll tell you why. He likes the attention, and can not behave this way anywhere except the net.
Old 6th September 2007
  #48
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
PLEASE SEND ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS SO I CAN SEND YOU YOUR MONEY BACK TONIGHT!!!

I don't know what your problem is, but you have spent the last 48 hours of your life chasing me around.

You never asked for a refund, but I am giving it to you because I don't want to deal with you, or do business with you.

Please leave me alone. I'm not responding to your requests, and any questions you have should have been answered in my previous posts.

If not, I can't help you in any way...

I WANT TO GIVE YOU YOUR MONEY BACK....
Tony Please.....with the acting mad!
Forget 48 hours chasing you i am still chasing the truth but you refuse to tell it - so oh well.......
Dont act frustrated like you dont know what's going on in your response in the forums when you just sent me a PM asking nicely for my email address so you could send my money back and stop being exposed- For that matter you could've said all this that you just posted in the pm you sent me.
Dont PM me then run behind my back on the other end to talk **** to make yourself look good!
And again your lying about me not asking for a refund as for i did A.S.A.P when you couldnt answer my questions to legitimized this so called DVD is in the making in the post in which you deleted and as far as my questions being answered in other post where..?? Did You delete your own post by a mistake being so nevous to gettin exposed or what because i havent nor have anyone else gotten any answers from the question concerning the DVD still......??? Then on top of everything You banned my other account for asking questions...?? The worst ever Hands Down.. I didn't even do anything wrong if you really ask yourself other than as a customer ask concerning question about my product..How could you deal with yourself after not rightfully granting me information for what i have invested in almost a year ago???? Damn this can't b life.... or could it.. well peace
" Gear ...." and i wont go as far as to call you guys slutz because your not that and i respect you all more than that and now it carries a deeper meaning too me because of the way that i was treated as a once loyal customer... Tony i will send you my email address a.s.a.p and hopefully you will atleast answer that back with my money returned.. Thanks! peace!

P.S. Oh yeah and now tony you can do what you do best Close this post and Ban Me i ain't mad at cha....
Old 6th September 2007
  #49
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
have you read all of his deleted posts? He was offered a refund but still keeps whining, why? He is hiding behind the Internet and speaking in a completely disrespectful manner, why? He is calling everyone who has a differing opinion childish names, even if they spoke to him respectfully, why? I'll tell you why. He likes the attention, and can not behave this way anywhere except the net.
You obviously like attention a bit there yourself.


(LOL I'm glad I'm not a mod, NO WAY could I then point out the odd behavior around here. And some of you guys are hillarious.)heh
Old 6th September 2007
  #50
Art
Gear Addict
 
Art's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
You obviously like attention a bit there yourself.


(LOL I'm glad I'm not a mod, NO WAY could I then point out the odd behavior around here. And some of you guys are hillarious.)heh
Haha, not really. I just don't like to see people abused by individuals who hide behind the safety of the net. Maybe one day you'll make someone mad and they will smear your name on the net and in the professional community, its not the right way to do things.

"obviously" in what way?
Old 6th September 2007
  #51
Gear Maniac
 

personally I thought this whole debacle was rediculous, you're talkin about a dvd on hip hop engineering, a $100 over a year ago, i thought it mighta been shady on tonys part not answering but he was obviously out of town and was hoping it would just work itself out, obviously dude couldnt handle a grown conversation, no matter what tony tried to do dude wasnt havin it, it was pathetic, i mean your gettin a refund, so drop it, but no, dude keeps going like he tryna expose tony like MLB tryna expose bonds, it was a crusade over a dvd, $100...are you kiddin me?

also note I dont see anyone joinin in on the tirade...this guy was all alone but kept sayin everyone wants to know...delusional
Old 6th September 2007
  #52
Lives for gear
 
C Heat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
personally I thought this whole debacle was rediculous, you're talkin about a dvd on hip hop engineering, a $100 over a year ago, i thought it mighta been shady on tonys part not answering but he was obviously out of town and was hoping it would just work itself out, obviously dude couldnt handle a grown conversation, no matter what tony tried to do dude wasnt havin it, it was pathetic, i mean your gettin a refund, so drop it, but no, dude keeps going like he tryna expose tony like MLB tryna expose bonds, it was a crusade over a dvd, $100...are you kiddin me?

also note I dont see anyone joinin in on the tirade...this guy was all alone but kept sayin everyone wants to know...delusional
Yeh, sucks to be Tony.
Old 6th September 2007
  #53
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Haha, not really. I just don't like to see people abused by individuals who hide behind the safety of the net. Maybe one day you'll make someone mad and they will smear your name on the net and in the professional community, its not the right way to do things.

"obviously" in what way?
So Tony's being abused is your stance?

Maybe I'll make someone mad by doing what?
Old 6th September 2007
  #54
Lives for gear
 
soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
$100...are you kiddin me?
since it's nothing to you, please send me $100.
Old 6th September 2007
  #55
Art
Gear Addict
 
Art's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
So Tony's being abused is your stance?

Maybe I'll make someone mad by doing what?
yes I feel that theshine is acting abusively and unproductively.

My point was that you may have a disagreement with someone, how would you feel if they started a smear campaign against you, look at all of the threads theshine is involved in badmouthing tony, is that cool in your opinion?

Last edited by Art; 6th September 2007 at 04:59 AM.. Reason: grammar
Old 6th September 2007
  #56
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall View Post
On a side note.. I've noticed that Jules has changed his style in recent years. Wasn't that long ago he would not tolerate this kind of a thread... AT ALL.
Trust me.. I know.
A lot of the new guys coming on this board are getting a lot of slack.. A hell of a lot of slack
I think over time Jules has learned how to better handle these things. It's in the moan zone. It's only so long before it moans to a crawl and then to a stop.

People will read it while it's fresh, but once Tony gives the dude his money back (And Tony probably can't wait to get the dude his money so he won't owe dude anything, ) he'll be allowed about a week or so of argument and then folks will look at it like old news.

What I find more shocking than Tony or the cat asking for his money back is the stance of the guys on the board. I think there's a full gamut of personality types here and it's funny to me.


Hell for a 5 stack loan interest free, I should have promised a DVD to cats here.

The Funny thing (And I'm sure that he won't because it will ruin his name), is that Tony could give these dudes a video of Jimmy Douglas in a room with an Easy Bake oven and a Speak and spell recording to a Fisher price recorder as Tony loads plugins on a logic rig in the background, and it would satisfy his obligation to them.

The internet is a funny fanatical place, these dudes NEVER heard Tony mix (And he may be as good as Andy Wallace for all I know, BUT), They never heard him mix, Never heard any of his production. They know he's sold some gear to a few people and they lined up to buy HIS DVD that THEY never saw.

And now 1.5 years later they are here getting mad at the dude who's bitching about the soundless video they were sent.

Now the flip side, is I've had Gear convos with Tony and he seems to be pretty knowledgable when it comes to gear. He has given solid advice. And he seems like a pretty cool dude, so I'm kinda dancing when I post here because I don't want to be "throwing Tony under the Bus, but I don't want to be telling a lie about how I view this issue either.

The one thing that can save this entire issue is Tony delivering a killer product.

All of this will be forgotten if he does. It will simply be written off as **** happens.
Old 6th September 2007
  #57
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex View Post
personally I thought this whole debacle was rediculous, you're talkin about a dvd on hip hop engineering, a $100 over a year ago, i thought it mighta been shady on tonys part not answering but he was obviously out of town and was hoping it would just work itself out, obviously dude couldnt handle a grown conversation, no matter what tony tried to do dude wasnt havin it, it was pathetic, i mean your gettin a refund, so drop it, but no, dude keeps going like he tryna expose tony like MLB tryna expose bonds, it was a crusade over a dvd, $100...are you kiddin me?

also note I dont see anyone joinin in on the tirade...this guy was all alone but kept sayin everyone wants to know...delusional
I'm curious, how old are you?
Old 6th September 2007
  #58
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
yes I feel that theshine is acting abusively and unproductively.

My point was that you may have a disagreement with someone, how would you feel if they started a smear campaign against you, look at all of the threads theshine is involved in badmouthing tony, is that cool in your opinion?
Well coolness is something totally based on opinion.

LOL I know for SURE it's unproductive. So I'll discuss the things I know to be factual.

It's not defamation. It's not harrassment (I don't think posting threads on GS would qualify? Especially if the threads are being posted BEFORE dude gets his money back and they are about his dissatisfaction with the product or lack thereof. Is it really a smear campaign? I'm pretty cool with Tony and I'm impartial so I don't want to seem for or against either of these dudes.

I posted a few things about an interaction with a dealer and GS guys reacted in similiar fashion defending the dealer. So I kinda sympathize with the cat that preordered though I sympathize with Tony too.

If you had my C note, I'd have some not so pleasant things to say about you. I'd definitely be telling my side of it.

If you felt I was smearing you, I really wouldn't care much what you thought.

What's hella funny is dude has cursed Tony in 900 different languages practically and Tony's response is "I won't be doing any business with you ever."

I'm sorry if I step on any toes in my posts But man if this were my dad and my brother arguing the exact same situation, I'd still find it FUNNY as hell reading the responses here.

And you say it's a smear campaign.

Man you dudes are hillarious.

GS is officially a comedy site now.

"But hey we should all be thanking Tony for giving us the benefit of his experience/connections" LMAO.

man this place is nuttier than squirrel ****.

Or in Tony's words

"This is ****in stupid"

LMBAO!

(Hey Jules It's a good thing my political views are not moderate enough to give gear advice around here as an unpaid mod I wouldn't be able to tell the truth around here).
Old 6th September 2007
  #59
no ssl yet
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
since it's nothing to you, please send me $100.
I'll arm wrestle u for it when u get it from Apex.

WTH he'll give u another one. They are nothing to him.
Old 6th September 2007
  #60
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
since it's nothing to you, please send me $100.
touche. Its not that the money or not gettin a dvd over a year and half isnt a big deal, its the way he flipped about it, on an internet forum open to all and just made remarks to posters who differed in opinion that seemed elementry. granted i'm a sarcastic ass too, but my remarks were for my own enjoyment(i find myself funny)and I was bored, and at the same time, just trying to give the guy a better way of handling it. i said it before, i would be just as pissed but doin what he did did nothin for him, he got a refund, but im sure he could have got that had he did so in a more professional manner too, I'm sayin its a $100, what are you gonna do fly out to where ever I'm at and beat me up for it? sue me(lol) it aint gonna do nothing for you to act the way he did. in the end tony still apologized on the board and offered a refund (if im not mistaken) and the dude STILL goes on about the "facts" being neglected. its silly. just drop it, the issue is resolved between you two, and as for "everyone" else demanding answers, it seems tony mentioned something about discounts on products he sold, so in the end I assume a lot of the people who pre ordered the dvd might just be happy with their new gear. i dunno, I didnt lose any sleep last night, so in the end i hope all is well in www.gearslutz.com



Quote:
Originally Posted by no ssl yet View Post
I'm curious, how old are you?

I told you in a previous rant months ago...25
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