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Boring Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 30th August 2007
  #1
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Boring

Ive noticed over the past several years that the drum sounds in hip hop
are realy clean and boring. Its almost like every one is produced by the same people.
To my ears the sound of the 90's had a lot more character with acts like Naz and wu tang. These drum sounds had grit and girth. Now every thing is so clean and canned sounding. I guess you could call all of the **** out now= Hip - Pop .It shure as hell isnt hip hop. By the way if i hear one more Fergie song Im gonna shoot myself.
Old 30th August 2007
  #2
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jbuehler's Avatar
 

I can assure you that 99% of the people TRYING to make a living making hip hop will agree with you.

I can assure you that 99% of the people MAKING a living making hip hop don't care.
Old 30th August 2007
  #3
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Mudnoc's Avatar
 

My oppinion on this subject is now a days you have productions workstations and sound modules with pre-set drums that are the go to drums for many a producer... Back in the day we didn't have this luxury...We really had to dig.... I remember back in 1997 when I purchased the Mo-Phatt sound module I started going through the drums in it and alot of them were the poplular break drums that had been used in prior years... Of course you also have sampled CD's that incorporate the same idea and alot of these drums sounds count for a big portion of what producers are making songs with today...
Old 30th August 2007
  #4
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Yeah, people! Drop the 808 drum sounds already! Please!

We've heard them... okay... wow... now get on with it! Jesus!

It's a f*cking microwave, fast food, recycling candy-wrapped b*llsh*t mentally to keep making songs with the same f*cking sounds!

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest...
Old 30th August 2007
  #5
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t.dizzle's Avatar
 

You guys sound like you're getting old.
Old 31st August 2007
  #6
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superjc's Avatar
 

808 has been around since 1980!! You could argue that it's sound is more popular now than ever. Since the current music business doesn't appreciate much less take chances on what is radically different, you get one thing slightly different followed by a million imitators. It's a slow (r)evolution; and now we're back to about a 1985 level of production.
Old 31st August 2007
  #7
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808 is hip hop. dusty drum breaks are also hip hop. like it or not.
Old 31st August 2007
  #8
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hip hop is generic now for the same reason it was in the 90s. Everyone is using the same gear, the same plug ins, and producing the exact same way as everyone else and then expect to sound different. Everyone finds it acceptable now to make music on Pro Tools LE using a mbox with stock plug ins, modern beats drums and Fruity Loops and the same 3 or 4 vsts everyone else is using. Im fine with people doing that but u cant complain when everyone has the same sound and sounds especially when the division of sound from piece to piece is so small nowadays. If you want to sound different its very easy to do. Do something that is unique and different. Don't buy a mpc everyone uses a mpc find a rare sampler and sample your drums. Don't use a Fantom, Motif or Triton to play your music instead find something rare that nobody else is using. Don't use Reason, FL studio or mainstream vsti.
Old 31st August 2007
  #9
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The Beatsmith's Avatar
 

yeah, because it's not you who shapes the sound of the beat, it's the equipment

Old 31st August 2007
  #10
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you could always stop cryin' like a beeecch and make better "HIP HOP". Time's a tickin'

Old 31st August 2007
  #11
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themaestro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuehler View Post
I can assure you that 99% of the people TRYING to make a living making hip hop will agree with you.

I can assure you that 99% of the people MAKING a living making hip hop don't care.
THIS MAY BE THE REALEST F-ing THING THAT ANYBODY HAS EVER SAID ON THIS FORUM
Old 31st August 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Beatsmith View Post
yeah, because it's not you who shapes the sound of the beat, it's the equipment

to an extent the gear does in part determine the sound. this is why vst emulations never sound anywhere near as good as the hardware itself
Old 31st August 2007
  #13
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themaestro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemamma View Post
Yeah, people! Drop the 808 drum sounds already! Please!

We've heard them... okay... wow... now get on with it! Jesus!

It's a f*cking microwave, fast food, recycling candy-wrapped b*llsh*t mentally to keep making songs with the same f*cking sounds!

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest...
why isnt anyone telling the rock producers to drop the guitars and the acoustic drums??? they all sound the same too.. what about back in the day when artists like james brown and al green had the same band with the same exact sounds in every freakin track. If anything, you will find MORE variety across the board on today's rap albums than in almost any other genre
Old 31st August 2007
  #14
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themaestro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
you could always stop cryin' like a beeecch and make better "HIP HOP". Time's a tickin'

my boy always chimes in with the realness!!!!
Old 31st August 2007
  #15
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaestro View Post
why isnt anyone telling the rock producers to drop the guitars and the acoustic drums??? they all sound the same too.. what about back in the day when artists like james brown and al green had the same band with the same exact sounds in every freakin track. If anything, you will find MORE variety across the board on today's rap albums than in almost any other genre
yet the way each band records is a little bit different. they arent all using the same preamps, same engineers, same mics or same rooms. the room is very important especially in a live recording aspect id say more so than in a mixing enviroment thats just my opinion tho. different guitars do sound different tho they are made of different wood or metal, they use different strings at different gauges and on top of that no two people play exactly the same way. in a rock enviroment there is no mpc swing to save them in hip hop a lot of cats heavily rely on mpc swing and quantize features to get that tight timing and when they do that it eliminates the playing style that made each band unique and every performance unique. i can play drums but i can't play drums the same way as the dude from a rock band and my timiing wont be exactly the same as his either no matter how close we are so no its always going to sound different
Old 31st August 2007
  #16
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themaestro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton View Post
yet the way each band records is a little bit different. they arent all using the same preamps, same engineers, same mics or same rooms. the room is very important especially in a live recording aspect id say more so than in a mixing enviroment thats just my opinion tho. different guitars do sound different tho they are made of different wood or metal, they use different strings at different gauges and on top of that no two people play exactly the same way. in a rock enviroment there is no mpc swing to save them in hip hop a lot of cats heavily rely on mpc swing and quantize features to get that tight timing and when they do that it eliminates the playing style that made each band unique and every performance unique. i can play drums but i can't play drums the same way as the dude from a rock band and my timiing wont be exactly the same as his either no matter how close we are so no its always going to sound different
everybody in hiphop isnt useing the same pres or engineers or mics or rooms either. Most producers who are actively working and making livings off of their production have painstakingly tweaked and personalized their sounds...although the majority of hip-hoppers won't vouch for the subtle differences in rock and alternative music...what about drum and bass, techno, electronica, and house musics....they also use many of the same digital equipment pieces that hiphop producers use, but they don't get have as much flack as we do...
Old 31st August 2007
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaestro View Post
why isnt anyone telling the rock producers to drop the guitars and the acoustic drums??? they all sound the same too.. what about back in the day when artists like james brown and al green had the same band with the same exact sounds in every freakin track. If anything, you will find MORE variety across the board on today's rap albums than in almost any other genre
Actualy i've been sick of guitars for a long time as well ,and since you mention it,
Hip hop is not the only stale music on the radio. Every one in rock and roll is still trying to be Nirvana with all the pointless screaming and distorted ****y guitars just like every one in hip hop on the radio is always rapping about drugs pussy and crime.
The fact that every one who makes it now is a carbon copy of a carbon copy makes me sick. I love Motown, Jazz and Delta Blues I love 60's and 70s Rock . All of these movments in music history were heartfelt and real. Today people are simply trying to make a buck by playing it safe and sounding like everyone else. If I never make a living as a writer at least I have my soul. Thats what Its realy all about. And no, I wont quit my day job. My day job pays the bills and allows me to continue being an artist instead of a musical *****. And by the way Im only 28 but i know real music when I hear it.
Old 31st August 2007
  #18
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaestro View Post
everybody in hiphop isnt useing the same pres or engineers or mics or rooms either. Most producers who are actively working and making livings off of their production have painstakingly tweaked and personalized their sounds...although the majority of hip-hoppers won't vouch for the subtle differences in rock and alternative music...what about drum and bass, techno, electronica, and house musics....they also use many of the same digital equipment pieces that hiphop producers use, but they don't get have as much flack as we do...
yea right. a lot of people in hip hop are using the same mics, pres, soundcards, sampling the same records, using the same sampler, the same keyboards and the same software and plug ins on average. of course you can find examples of people doing things a little bit different but for the most part everyone is doing the same things. they can make their patches sound anyway they want to but the machine itself sounds a certain way you can get away from that
Old 31st August 2007
  #19
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
Actualy i've been sick of guitars for a long time as well ,and since you mention it,
Hip hop is not the only stale music on the radio. Every one in rock and roll is still trying to be Nirvana with all the pointless screaming and distorted ****y guitars just like every one in hip hop on the radio is always rapping about drugs pussy and crime.
The fact that every one who makes it now is a carbon copy of a carbon copy makes me sick. I love Motown, Jazz and Delta Blues I love 60's and 70s Rock . All of these movments in music history were heartfelt and real. Today people are simply trying to make a buck by playing it safe and sounding like everyone else. If I never make a living as a writer at least I have my soul. Thats what Its realy all about. And no, I wont quit my day job. My day job pays the bills and allows me to continue being an artist instead of a musical *****. And by the way Im only 28 but i know real music when I hear it.
real music is such a subjective term. music is really about what has influenced you to make music which in general will come naturally if it is good music. The problem with hip hop r&b and rock is that they are all youth genres that don't generally accept too much creativity. maybe not so much in r&b but definately in hip hop and rock. you have to sound somewhat like something they already like in order for them to like you. there is a bit of psycology to making good music that i am still learning myself but it really is more than what you like and consider good. most people happen to like the same things but not everyone
Old 31st August 2007
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton View Post
real music is such a subjective term. music is really about what has influenced you to make music which in general will come naturally if it is good music. The problem with hip hop r&b and rock is that they are all youth genres that don't generally accept too much creativity. maybe not so much in r&b but definately in hip hop and rock. you have to sound somewhat like something they already like in order for them to like you. there is a bit of psycology to making good music that i am still learning myself but it really is more than what you like and consider good. most people happen to like the same things but not everyone
I agree and what do kids want the most? To fit in. But I bet kids used to love Jazz and blues and now its there parents music. I find it disturbing that from a creative movment as strog as jazz people have resorted to sampling other peoples work. In literature I belive it would be called plagerizim. So how is it that in hip hop stealing some one elses
art makes you an artist? In fact it was only Art the first time around.
I think the worst part of it is the original artist usaly dosent get credit with the listner.
I remember when P diddy sampled Every breath you take by the Police and I had people telling me that P diddy was a musical genius for writing that song.
I tried to tell them that a white guy named Sting had writen it 15 years earlier and they all thought I was full of ****.
By the way I agree with you also on your point about timing. I have a wierd upstoke
when I play a guitar and it gives me a sound of my own . When you quantize and pitch correct the hell out of everthing you do sound just like every one else.
I just wish that musicians would forgett about the rules and generas and start play with all kinds of differant music. **** the rules as long as its got rythem and some sort of melody and harmony.
Old 31st August 2007
  #21
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KevWest's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
I agree and what do kids want the most? To fit in. But I bet kids used to love Jazz and blues and now its there parents music. I find it disturbing that from a creative movment as strog as jazz people have resorted to sampling other peoples work. In literature I belive it would be called plagerizim. So how is it that in hip hop stealing some one elses
art makes you an artist? In fact it was only Art the first time around.
I think the worst part of it is the original artist usaly dosent get credit with the listner.
I remember when P diddy sampled Every breath you take by the Police and I had people telling me that P diddy was a musical genius for writing that song.
I tried to tell them that a white guy named Sting had writen it 15 years earlier and they all thought I was full of ****.
By the way I agree with you also on your point about timing. I have a wierd upstoke
when I play a guitar and it gives me a sound of my own . When you quantize and pitch correct the hell out of everthing you do sound just like every one else.
I just wish that musicians would forgett about the rules and generas and start play with all kinds of differant music. **** the rules as long as its got rythem and some sort of melody and harmony.
sampling is an art but you have to understand the art itself to not think otherwise. Its collage art just like when people make collages and its art so is sampling. I take one sound or loop from here and i blend it with this song and i write some of my own parts on top of it. How is that not art? As far as kids fitting in thats not exactly what I was getting at because even adults are stubborn to that extent and don't accept things they aren't already familiar with. For example a lot of people love J. Dilla. I respect him but I don't really like his music. But the thing I do see in common with most of his fans is that they also enjoy jazz, they also enjoyed Pete Rock whos fans also enjoy jazz and hip hop. I love The Neptunes. They loved pop music especially 80s pop I also love 80s pop. I like pop music now. My favorite song on the radio right now is NickleBack's Rock Star. The reason why this is relevant is because when you have formulated an opinion on what good music sounds like you begin to dislike anything that doesn't have similar qualities. This is part of why NY cats tend to only f*ck with NY Hip Hop. They can relate to it. I like the neptunes and pop music because I relate it to my first musical memories of Let's Wait Awhile by Janet Jackson and Super Woman By Karen White.
Old 31st August 2007
  #22
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sctt_stone View Post
Ive noticed over the past several years that the drum sounds in hip hop
are realy clean and boring. Its almost like every one is produced by the same people.
To my ears the sound of the 90's had a lot more character with acts like Naz and wu tang. These drum sounds had grit and girth. Now every thing is so clean and canned sounding. I guess you could call all of the **** out now= Hip - Pop .It shure as hell isnt hip hop. By the way if i hear one more Fergie song Im gonna shoot myself.
If you are one of those producers getting your 808's off VST and/or digital sample libraries, and mixing them totally in the box, you should have no problem understanding why drums are sounding more clean over the past several years. Thats digital for ya....

There is no real problem with how the drums are sounding these days in comparison to the 90's. If anything, in my opinion i think the problem lays more on the type of basslines some hip hop producers are using these days. I think fat, juicy basslines are lacking in modern hip hop productions more than anything else.

I also remember a time when basslines were mixed hotter than kick drums. Not too much producers are doing that anymore, the kick is now without a question the most hotest part of the mix in most cases.
Old 31st August 2007
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

so you guys are talking about hip hop, or the all well known and well selling hip hop influenced pop(ular) music in the charts?

these complains about samieness and un-inspirated tracks is nothing exclusive to hip hop, it has always been the problem of music done by people trying to get rich and famous by using the "tried and tested formula".
same goes for jazz, rock, techno...you name it...same goes for movies, fashion..etc etc..

but there´s always a scene with a different aproach (underground?)...

back in the 80s hip hop was still developing and produced by and for a (more or less)small scene..nowadays it has become a big global market which i would also call "hip pop"....

so please don´t complain about hip hop, complain about the aproach of majors..
and if you want to get rich, it´s best to follow the modern trends...or wait for god sending you tons of luck....

Old 31st August 2007
  #24
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I don't listen to mainstream hiphop anymore... It's wack! It's just as bad as the other cheesy pop on the radio!

I listen to music with quality songwriting, production, musicianship, etc. IMO the best music on the radio right now is stuff like Amy Winehouse.

But hey, if you're making money off that cheesy hip-pop, do your thang honey! I'm not hating, I'm just saying it's some wack *ss music and I'll never buy it or support it!
Peace...
Old 31st August 2007
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton View Post
yea right. a lot of people in hip hop are using the same mics, pres, soundcards, sampling the same records, using the same sampler, the same keyboards and the same software and plug ins on average. of course you can find examples of people doing things a little bit different but for the most part everyone is doing the same things. they can make their patches sound anyway they want to but the machine itself sounds a certain way you can get away from that
Not really. Sampler-wise: Some people use the MPC 2K. Some prefer the 3K. Some people swear by the 4k, which despite the name is different beast than the 3k. Some big names are using the MV 8000 or 8800. Some people are using the ASR. Some people use the SP1200.

Mic wise people use whateve they have around.... Everything from c800's all the way down to TLM 103's back up to Neumann mikes, etc etc. Some people use the Blue mics. Not every artist sounds great on the same mic and engineer's know this, and a lot of stuff now is being done on lower budgets where they don't have the $$ for a $6000 mic.

Preamp wise... Some people are using the SSL Board pres, some people are using Neve's, some people are using API's. Some people are using mbox's or digi002 (it's not longer all about the big studio). Some people prefer chandlers. Etc. etc.

Keybaord-wise: Some people prefer older keyboards (neps), some people are Motif based, others swear by the fantom, some people are using newer versions of simulated analog gear like Virus, Microkorg, Andromeda, Se. Some people use the Triton Extreme. Some people use the older roland modules for sounds. Some people don't use keyboards much at all.

With the products I listed above there are enough possible combinations to get hundreds of different sounds. It's no different than any other style of music. And with ALL of it your sound depends totally on WHAT you sample, WHICH patches you choose, and HOW you process them... So why are you perpetuating this false argument?

You're trying to say that Just Blaze sounds just like Timbaland, who sounds just like Hi-Tek, who sounds just like Scott Storch, who sounds just Nottz, who sounds just like Dre, who sounds just like Mannie Fresh, who sounds just like Kanye West, who sounds just like Jazze Phe, who sounds just like Will.I.Am???

Personally I think you're off your rocker on this one.
Old 31st August 2007
  #26
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boring.
Old 31st August 2007
  #27
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themaestro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by khameln View Post
Not really. Sampler-wise: Some people use the MPC 2K. Some prefer the 3K. Some people swear by the 4k, which despite the name is different beast than the 3k. Some big names are using the MV 8000 or 8800. Some people are using the ASR. Some people use the SP1200.

Mic wise people use whateve they have around.... Everything from c800's all the way down to TLM 103's back up to Neumann mikes, etc etc. Some people use the Blue mics. Not every artist sounds great on the same mic and engineer's know this, and a lot of stuff now is being done on lower budgets where they don't have the $$ for a $6000 mic.

Preamp wise... Some people are using the SSL Board pres, some people are using Neve's, some people are using API's. Some people are using mbox's or digi002 (it's not longer all about the big studio). Some people prefer chandlers. Etc. etc.

Keybaord-wise: Some people prefer older keyboards (neps), some people are Motif based, others swear by the fantom, some people are using newer versions of simulated analog gear like Virus, Microkorg, Andromeda, Se. Some people use the Triton Extreme. Some people use the older roland modules for sounds. Some people don't use keyboards much at all.

With the products I listed above there are enough possible combinations to get hundreds of different sounds. It's no different than any other style of music. And with ALL of it your sound depends totally on WHAT you sample, WHICH patches you choose, and HOW you process them... So why are you perpetuating this false argument?

You're trying to say that Just Blaze sounds just like Timbaland, who sounds just like Hi-Tek, who sounds just like Scott Storch, who sounds just Nottz, who sounds just like Dre, who sounds just like Mannie Fresh, who sounds just like Kanye West, who sounds just like Jazze Phe, who sounds just like Will.I.Am???

Personally I think you're off your rocker on this one.
couldn't have said it better myself. one point to consider...HARDLY ANY OF THE BIG AND MID SIZED STUDIOS WHERE HIP HOP [THAT MAKES IT TO YOUR AIRWAVES] IS MADE AND MIXED WERE CREATED WITH HIP HOP IN MIND! If we use the same equipment, its only because it was already there. and if it was already there, but wasn't put there for us, what does that tell you???

When it comes down to it, many of the producers who make it to the forefront and really shine are unique in their sound. producers who are the same never really make it big and stay on soundclick and album cuts. There is only room for ONE producer with a specific sound at a specific time. 2-3 imitation producers with indistinguishable styles may bubble and get some limelight, but there is only ONE who will shine. As i type, i realize that all HIP-HOP doesnt sound similar, much of any type of music that never gets mainstream appeal is what all sounds the same. as i said before on this forum (and caught hell for it) saying that all hip hop sounds alike is like saying all black people look the same let the hating begin
Old 31st August 2007
  #28
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themaestro's Avatar
 

look at the south...toomp doesn't sound like lil jon, lil jon doesn't sound like polow, polow doesn't sound like jazze, jazze doesn't sound like banner, banner doesn't sound like collipark, collipark doesn't sound like b cox, b cox doesn't sound like dj paul and juicy j, juicy j doesn't sound like jim jonsin, jim jonsin doesn't sound like nitty, nitty doesn't sound like mannie fresh, mannie doesn't sound like jd, jd doesn't sound like cool and dre........Everyone in this list has a pretty unique sound, and as far as the south goes, NOBODY ELSE MATTERS!! (pardon me if i left anyone out) any trained producer can recognize one of these guy's tracks right off the bat, and if you cant, it may explain why that particular producer isnt as big as the others...prove me wrong



ps.....chart toppers top charts for a reason
Old 31st August 2007
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton View Post
hip hop is generic now for the same reason it was in the 90s. Everyone is using the same gear, the same plug ins, and producing the exact same way as everyone else and then expect to sound different. Everyone finds it acceptable now to make music on Pro Tools LE using a mbox with stock plug ins, modern beats drums and Fruity Loops and the same 3 or 4 vsts everyone else is using. Im fine with people doing that but u cant complain when everyone has the same sound and sounds especially when the division of sound from piece to piece is so small nowadays. If you want to sound different its very easy to do. Do something that is unique and different. Don't buy a mpc everyone uses a mpc find a rare sampler and sample your drums. Don't use a Fantom, Motif or Triton to play your music instead find something rare that nobody else is using. Don't use Reason, FL studio or mainstream vsti.
you going over the top...
any SAMPLER can sound like anything. its the reason a sampler is 1 of the most versatile pieces of gear you can own. AN MPC can never sound outdated..IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT. any difference in sampling engines is smaller than ppl believe. you couldnt tell if some1 did something on a MPC vs. ASR if you werent told.

if you own a sampler you can always sound "current" unless its a bit rate thing and even that is a flavor ppl will use in contemporary music (see Common's "the people")
Old 31st August 2007
  #30
Gear Addict
 

i'm wondering if you find it boring, why don't you take it to the next level ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by t.dizzle View Post
You guys sound like you're getting old.

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