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I'm depressed
Old 24th August 2007
  #1
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I'm depressed

Hiya!
Recently I put my old Purple cd from Stone Temple Pilots in the good ol' cheap stereo I have. I hadn't really played this cd all the way through since the 90's... before my audio-obsessiveness started...
My buddy and I really really got depressed because we realized 1/2 way through that we would not hear a band produced like this any time soon. It sounds like, well, a band. Compare these mixes to a band like Hinder, and all of a sudden you can appreciate a cd like Purple a lot more. I wish I could mix a record like this, where everything has it's place and the subleties of the song are what makes the song. It's not just LOUD LOUD LOUDER!

Indeed, a kind of weak rant, but I felt I'd like to say it to some ppl who may respond.. my gf couldn't care less haha. What's that saying tho...
Old 25th August 2007
  #2
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max cooper's Avatar
 

I hear you. It's tiring. Sometimes when I think I'm bellyaching I put on some new rock record and I feel fried in less than a minute.

I still haven't gotten through the new QOTSA record because it hurts so bad.
Old 25th August 2007
  #3
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Don't let it get you down, just refuse to play the loudness war. In fact, fight back and refuse to work with what I've come to call "sheet music" due to its two dimensional nature. Dynamics have a place in music.
Old 25th August 2007
  #4
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
I hear you. It's tiring. Sometimes when I think I'm bellyaching I put on some new rock record and I feel fried in less than a minute.

I still haven't gotten through the new QOTSA record because it hurts so bad.
... and because the songs suck (except Misfit Love).
Old 25th August 2007
  #5
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

It took 'Purple' to make you feel like that? Just be glad you're not a fan of recordings from the 60's and 70's then!
Old 25th August 2007
  #6
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by the time they got to shangri la-di-da, stp was in on the loudness war thing too. however, shangri is still a gloriously huge and great-sounding album.
Old 25th August 2007
  #7
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger. It actually has transients!
Old 25th August 2007
  #8
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

boost 5k
boost 7k
boost 10k
boost 12k
turn the music louder
and just let go........
Old 25th August 2007
  #9
Gear Nut
 
Audiophile20's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooman View Post
Hiya!
Recently I put my old Purple cd from Stone Temple Pilots in the good ol' cheap stereo I have. I hadn't really played this cd all the way through since the 90's... before my audio-obsessiveness started...
My buddy and I really really got depressed because we realized 1/2 way through that we would not hear a band produced like this any time soon. It sounds like, well, a band. Compare these mixes to a band like Hinder, and all of a sudden you can appreciate a cd like Purple a lot more. I wish I could mix a record like this, where everything has it's place and the subleties of the song are what makes the song. It's not just LOUD LOUD LOUDER!

Indeed, a kind of weak rant, but I felt I'd like to say it to some ppl who may respond.. my gf couldn't care less haha. What's that saying tho...
ah...another has been awoken from the musical matrix.
Old 25th August 2007
  #10
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

More importantly I think STP was one of the last groups who could write a good ALBUM.

War
Old 25th August 2007
  #11
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s00p3rm4n's Avatar
 

Exclamation

*coughcough*

Leave the Queens out of this. You fine folks can bitch and whine about how the 90s are dead and you think that's a bad thing, but don't you bring my Ginger Elvis into this! (And yeah, there're some clunkers on the new record, but come on - it's ****ing QOTSA, it still rocks harder than anything I've heard you people skronk out. And do you have red hair and shimmy when you perform? I thought not.)

Oh, and I'm sure most of the records you like may sound like a band but are just as multitracked-and-overdubbed-to-**** as QOTSA. That's only been the de facto production technique for pop music since the Beatles dropped acid.

I definitely do see the point of the anti-loudness camp. Amateur as I am, I just think that it can be a great idea or tool - but very few people have any idea what to do with it. It seems to be this way with most musical production concepts.
Old 25th August 2007
  #12
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Bierce85's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger. It actually has transients!
Funny you'd say that cause I always thought that album sounded rather flat. Superunknown has superior dynamics IMO.
Old 25th August 2007
  #13
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

Yeah, the production on that one is much bigger. I think their budget might have been a little better after they had a hit. I said Badmotorfinger because I pulled it out the other day and had the same thought as the thread starter.
Old 25th August 2007
  #14
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Yes, Badmotorfinger is a sweet record as well. I hear it in a bar I go to along with anything else on the radio, and I get depressed and drink a ton. I think the owners do it on purpose so ppl start to drink a lot more haha.

It took records like these that I'm not back to listening to because I grew up with these songs, so they mean more to me. And now that i realize how great they sound in comparison to today's muzak, it really hits me.

Anywho, it's nice to know it's not just me being a whiner haha. Thanks for the replies.
Old 25th August 2007
  #15
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s00p3rm4n View Post

Oh, and I'm sure most of the records you like may sound like a band but are just as multitracked-and-overdubbed-to-**** as QOTSA.
It's not the multitracking, it's the loudness.. For the record I like the Queens. It just hurts to listen to the record.

I like the drum sounds, and I like "In the Hollow" and a couple of others, but c'mon. It sounds totally choked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooman View Post
Yes, Badmotorfinger is a sweet record as well.

Yeah, but those drum sounds are hard to take. The next two sounded a lot better. Terry Date did better with the Deftones IMO.

Tighter and Tighter and Overfloater from the last record are great.
Old 26th August 2007
  #16
EJW
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I feel you on this, but I'd like to hijack this thread for a second here. How do you not play the loudness game? I am a small demo studio for local bands and all of them want their stuff as loud as the other guys have it. There's a studio on the other end of town that smashes their stuff to the point where just their kick drum can nearly drowned out a whole recording of mine. Most bands don't want to shell out money for mastering so they just ask me to make it louder, and I only compress enough to bring up the volume a bit...basically I want to see a wave form still (no I don't compress with my eyes), so they are never happy. I feel like I can't win. And if I could bitch a bit more...There is another, better, studio that has unmastered samples but they are still much louder...but don't sound smooshed. I swear someone's doing voodoo on this stuff.

I think I've just gone back to my 6-month newbie days "How do they make it so louddd!?"

I'm done.
Old 26th August 2007
  #17
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

It would take a couple of huge bands releasing 2 versions of a cd, one squashed and one not, and the un-ruined one outselling the other like 10 to 1. Which would never happen, the general public would always pick the louder one.
Old 26th August 2007
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
It's not the multitracking, it's the loudness.. For the record I like the Queens. It just hurts to listen to the record.

I like the drum sounds, and I like "In the Hollow" and a couple of others, but c'mon. It sounds totally choked.




Yeah, but those drum sounds are hard to take. The next two sounded a lot better. Terry Date did better with the Deftones IMO.

Tighter and Tighter and Overfloater from the last record are great.
yeah; i thought that soundgarden's "in thru the outdoor" or whatever they called it was a great album, music and soundwise. they really went for the bonham drum sound with that one in a huge way. and the lyrics and vibe of "zero chance" are untouchable.
Old 26th August 2007
  #19
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooman View Post
Hiya!
Recently I put my old Purple cd from Stone Temple Pilots in the good ol' cheap stereo I have. I hadn't really played this cd all the way through since the 90's... before my audio-obsessiveness started...
My buddy and I really really got depressed because we realized 1/2 way through that we would not hear a band produced like this any time soon. It sounds like, well, a band. Compare these mixes to a band like Hinder, and all of a sudden you can appreciate a cd like Purple a lot more. I wish I could mix a record like this, where everything has it's place and the subleties of the song are what makes the song. It's not just LOUD LOUD LOUDER!

Indeed, a kind of weak rant, but I felt I'd like to say it to some ppl who may respond.. my gf couldn't care less haha. What's that saying tho...
The STP are my fav studio sound...
Old 26th August 2007
  #20
Jax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger. It actually has transients!
and Superunknown
and Down on the Upside
and Louder Than Love
Old 26th August 2007
  #21
Jax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vixapphire View Post
yeah; i thought that soundgarden's "in thru the outdoor" or whatever they called it was a great album, music and soundwise. they really went for the bonham drum sound with that one in a huge way. and the lyrics and vibe of "zero chance" are untouchable.
Uh.. what album did you mean? "In Thru the Out Door" is Led Zeppelin. You could be talking about 3-4 SG albums which I consider very good...
Old 26th August 2007
  #22
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Tom Hakala's Avatar
 

I've been listening to Joshua Tree a lot lately. It's always a treat to rediscover those "old" classics. And now after reading this thread I had to listen to Purple.

Well I guess the next will be Superunknown.. oh boy Chris Cornell is in the town next week. Someone told me that he's been playing a lot of Soundgarden and Temple Of The Dog stuff on this tour. Can't wait to see him live! Last time I saw him was 1996 with SG. It was one helluva show
Old 27th August 2007
  #23
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Love Soundgarden an Stp! I,m feeling everyone on this loudness business, it's just irritating. I'm mixing a guys albulm right now, got it sounding really nice too, non- fatigue drenched sounding. i sent him a couple of Demos of the recording sound i was going for, he called me back and said " yea, it sounds good, but i have to turn it up in my computer when it's own random because it gets quieter when my song comes on, and i don't want to give this to a festival promoter and my song isn't as loud' ???? !!!!
#1 - listen to more music that was recorded yesterday !!!
Do you really think that Marvin Gaye or Fleetwood Mac sound
inferior to Dave Mathews in recording quality ???? !!!
#2 - Quit asking for "Permission" from people who don't know jack
about crap when it comes to a nice sounding record. Actually,
if your not as loud, maybe they'll notice you. "wow, that sounds
different!"
#3 - maybe the most important rule. If you are already heavyly
influenced by a popular artist, and sound very similar, DO NOT MIX
YOUR RECORD LIKE THEIRS!! jeeezzzz,.
Sorry, I,m o.k. now.
It,s like this story of this jazz musician, he show's up at the gig, playing guitar with a piano player, the place is packed, he starts to play, audience is getting louder, music can't be heard, what's he do? Gradually starts playing softer and softer, finally the audience understands, shuts up so they can hear (isnt' that what they were paying for?), and finally enjoys the music at it's perfect listening level.
This is what we as music producers/ mixers/ whatever,
should try. Loudness is the new mullet, I WILL NOT join the club. (he.he.)
Old 27th August 2007
  #24
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Is this guy going to have his record mastered? If so, then tell him not to worry because mastering will tastefully bring up the level of the sound (assuming he requests for tasteful from a good engineer).

Even though people hate the loudness wars, you have to conform a bit if you want clients to return and spread good word of you. Plus if they want to play festivals and compete with people with loud records, they will obvsiously need loud records. No way will he be able to convince a promoter that loud=bad. Not a chance... same with the crowd. If the crowd wants loud and he doesn't play it, 9 time out of 10 they will not cheer or care.

Your experiences may vary I guess.
Old 27th August 2007
  #25
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hakala View Post
I've been listening to Joshua Tree a lot lately. It's always a treat to rediscover those "old" classics. And now after reading this thread I had to listen to Purple.

Well I guess the next will be Superunknown.. oh boy Chris Cornell is in the town next week. Someone told me that he's been playing a lot of Soundgarden and Temple Of The Dog stuff on this tour. Can't wait to see him live! Last time I saw him was 1996 with SG. It was one helluva show
You ABSOLUTELY MUST GO TO SEE CHRIS CORNELL!!! I went to one of the first shows on this tour, and it was awesome. No opening act, he played for over 2 hours and did just about every song I wanted to hear. Not only that, but the band was great, nailing not just the notes but the various tones as well. I was a little dissapointed in the new solo album, but that show rocked. Best concert I've been to in the last 5 years.
Old 27th August 2007
  #26
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gravityminor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by river View Post
Don't let it get you down, just refuse to play the loudness war. In fact, fight back and refuse to work with what I've come to call "sheet music" due to its two dimensional nature. Dynamics have a place in music.
"sheet music"

classic
Old 27th August 2007
  #27
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Tom Hakala's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
You ABSOLUTELY MUST GO TO SEE CHRIS CORNELL!!! I went to one of the first shows on this tour, and it was awesome. No opening act, he played for over 2 hours and did just about every song I wanted to hear. Not only that, but the band was great, nailing not just the notes but the various tones as well. I was a little dissapointed in the new solo album, but that show rocked. Best concert I've been to in the last 5 years.
oh yeah, i'm going baby i'm going... it's less than 48 hours. can't wait!
Old 29th August 2007
  #28
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Tom Hakala's Avatar
 

all i wanna say is that Cornell was awesome tonight! He was on fire. He was better than he was with Soundgarden eleven years ago. Setlist was very good. Of course there were a couple of songs I would have loved to hear, but well... you can't always get what you want, right?

If he is in your town. Just go and see him live.
Old 30th August 2007
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
Uh.. what album did you mean? "In Thru the Out Door" is Led Zeppelin. You could be talking about 3-4 SG albums which I consider very good...
Are you really asking that question, when they came out with an album called "Down on the Upside", whereas all their other album titles are single-word titles? Lighten up, fer chrissakes!!!

"down on the upside", "in thru the outdoor"; quel difference?
Old 31st August 2007
  #30
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well, sure. I mean i can put a compressor, L2, whatever on the master buss, it's still gonna be too hot sounding for my ears. Point is, loud doesn't mean loud anymore, it means "saturated".
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