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Gamers know more about audio?
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Gamers know more about audio?

I'm part of many different forums and have noticed an alarming discovery. It seems that the gaming communities are more aware of quality audio than many of the folks here. There are multiple threads of gamers wanting to upgrade their gear's internal parts for better sound! People here simply say "oh just buy the expensive boutique name" but have no idea why they sound better. Many of the audio folk on here don't own an oscilloscope or even a soldering iron! Is this because there are more Electrical Engineering based minds in the gaming world than in the "Audio" world? I know most users of forums are sheep that just follow what the person with more posts says, but let's get it together guys/gals.

Quality is in the components, not the name. SSL released a crappy daw (just like everyone else) that some would try to say "it sounds amazing" because it's SSL. Wrong. Crap components, crap everything. However, $60,000 for an old SSL desk is also a joke. Components age and lose crucial quality within these components. 8 year old equipment from ANY manufacturer is of sacrificed quality, big name or not.

Why? Because capacitors and IC's that are the heart and soul of these units have a life span of 10 years or less. Some can certainly last more than 10 years, but not the ones that are doing the work. Using your gear 1 hour a day for 5 years will take your gear to its tolerance end. Simply maintaining your gear doesn't cut it, it must be refurbished every 10 years or less. The current generation of "Audio Engineers" are losing the battle here and have succumbed to media marketing because the guys on the left or right of your screen (Likely Vance or Timbaland, etc) push certain gear. Those guys didn't get their name from the gear they used; they got it from the EARS THEY USED. These new kids in today's audio world are so damn busy on tik-tok and other social media taking pictures of themselves, that they can't even figure out why they have nasty phasing in their overheads or other stereo micing tracks. "But this is what Timbaland uses, so it sounds good" Mmhm. Pick up some books kiddos and read, that is how you move from " the sound guy" to "the engineer". Those who know and use the "Geekslutz" section on here have a hell of an advantage over the rest. Learn from these guys, they have been doing this for years!
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_ears ➡️
I'm part of many different forums and have noticed an alarming discovery. It seems that the gaming communities are more aware of quality audio than many of the folks here. There are multiple threads of gamers wanting to upgrade their gear's internal parts for better sound! People here simply say "oh just buy the expensive boutique name" but have no idea why they sound better. Many of the audio folk on here don't own an oscilloscope or even a soldering iron! Is this because there are more Electrical Engineering based minds in the gaming world than in the "Audio" world? I know most users of forums are sheep that just follow what the person with more posts says, but let's get it together guys/gals.

Quality is in the components, not the name. SSL released a crappy daw (just like everyone else) that some would try to say "it sounds amazing" because it's SSL. Wrong. Crap components, crap everything. However, $60,000 for an old SSL desk is also a joke. Components age and lose crucial quality within these components. 8 year old equipment from ANY manufacturer is of sacrificed quality, big name or not.

Why? Because capacitors and IC's that are the heart and soul of these units have a life span of 10 years or less. Some can certainly last more than 10 years, but not the ones that are doing the work. Using your gear 1 hour a day for 5 years will take your gear to its tolerance end. Simply maintaining your gear doesn't cut it, it must be refurbished every 10 years or less. The current generation of "Audio Engineers" are losing the battle here and have succumbed to media marketing because the guys on the left or right of your screen (Likely Vance or Timbaland, etc) push certain gear. Those guys didn't get their name from the gear they used; they got it from the EARS THEY USED. These new kids in today's audio world are so damn busy on tik-tok and other social media taking pictures of themselves, that they can't even figure out why they have nasty phasing in their overheads or other stereo micing tracks. "But this is what Timbaland uses, so it sounds good" Mmhm. Pick up some books kiddos and read, that is how you move from " the sound guy" to "the engineer". Those who know and use the "Geekslutz" section on here have a hell of an advantage over the rest. Learn from these guys, they have been doing this for years!
When I have speakers capable of reproducing realistic dynamics and a room & ear that will allow me to hear hundredths of distortion then I will reread your questioning with interest. A good ABX will also allow you to hear more clearly.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
NS-10s are all you need. Why use monitors that reproduce sound that <%1 of consumers will reproduce at home? Waste of money. NS-10s have been the best choice because they reproduce the equivalent of what the majority of listeners have as home systems. Due to the fact that consumers of 2021+ are listening to sound bar speakers (array of multiple 1-2" speakers with a subwoofer) or airpods, they can't even reproduce what cheap NS-10s put out. The forum junkies and puremix, etc members are caught up in a marketing ploy that will get you no where. Andrew Scheps himself said he uses a laptop with headphones and a UAD box to mix now. So why spend thousands on equipment that no engineer uses who actually makes bank? Too many people think that if you spend a million dollars on equipment that you'll make a hit record... Call me when it happens. Justin Vernon made a hit record with less than $1000 in recording equipment and very little experience; he basically knew how to hit record. Same as Adam Young. Recorded a #1 single in his basement's low budget home-studio, not with any fancy stuff. This realm is a dick swinging contest that you only see if you remove yourself from it. Pick up a soldering iron and make the equipment you so covet yourself for far, far less money. Every company you can think of buys their components from the same distributors that you can buy from. Gamers figured this out. Why can't "audio engineers" figure this out? Open up your favorite $1000/per channel preamp, I bet there are less than $100 in components in there, likely less than $50. The damn enclosure costs more than the crap they put inside.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I'm not sure what your point is?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Why do gamers (retro enthusiast type) seem to have more knowledge of quality audio components over the typical GS "audio engineer"? It seems there is a complete lack of knowledge thirst in our own community. Somewhere, the "engineer" in "audio engineer" has become a joke. People have to quit relying on forums for knowledge and open a book. Spend an hour reading stuff on AudioKarma or the Geekslutz section on here and you will see what I mean. So many brilliant, knowledgeable contributors that aren't plastered to the latest gimmick manufactured by some name brand. This forum has become a marketing disaster of "what's better, this or that?" Truth is, nothing makes good audio if there is an idiot running the gear. Beats by dre = $300 for 2 extra capacitors and resistors worth 25 cents. Only an idiot buys that. Ha ha. Some people just don't get it. Rip the crap apart and you will find the same chinese crap in all the marketed junk.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #6
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_ears ➡️
Gamers figured this out.
I didn't realize gamers were putting out hit records with their gear...I thought most were just playing video games.
Not really sure how you came to the conclusion that gamers know more about audio recording gear than audio engineers...?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_ears ➡️
Why do gamers (retro enthusiast type) seem to have more knowledge of quality audio components over the typical GS "audio engineer"?
This seems like not just a valueless generalization but a blatant straw-man that merits little to no further exploration, and would most likely crumble to dust upon any serious examination

.. which I will leave to someone else



Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle ➡️
This seems like not just a valueless generalization but a blatant straw-man that merits little to no further exploration, and would most likely crumble to dust upon any serious examination

.. which I will leave to someone else



Your answer has been added to my above response. I've been on this forum for over a decade and never seen so much disasterous lack of diligence. I get that the majority of forumers just want to swing the dick around, but this garbage has created some pretty worthless "engineers" lately. If your defending that population, then you should do some reflection and realize you may be part of that population. Or just complain that someone has told the uneducated to pick up a book instead of take a forum post as education.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 
pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
are you asking the question or just making the point that gamers know more about audio than professional audio engineers? I've found no evidence of this.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Here for the gear
 
Is this pasta?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist ➡️
are you asking the question or just making the point that gamers know more about audio than professional audio engineers? I've found no evidence of this.
I'm asking why this is the case. I'd like to believe the audio community would know what recapping equipment is. 3 different retro gaming communities I share information with talk about replacing IC's, capacitors and other components to fix or upgrade their gear... Why aren't more GS users doing this? The community here has so much potential that is seeming to be wasted on the marketing giant's successful ploys. I hate seeing fello audio engineers fall in to these marketing scams.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
I suppose many of you don't remember the "Globe College" scandal of charging upwards of $100,000 for an "Audio Engineering Degree" but many of you do know of "puremix" or "Mix with the Masters" and like online sources. Globe and it's subsidiaries (Institute of Production/Recording, etc) was regulated and shut down because it claimed to be an educational institution. These online sources are not regulated by any standard, so just be careful how you spend your money.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_ears ➡️
I'm asking why this is the case. I'd like to believe the audio community would know what recapping equipment is. 3 different retro gaming communities I share information with talk about replacing IC's, capacitors and other components to fix or upgrade their gear... Why aren't more GS users doing this? The community here has so much potential that is seeming to be wasted on the marketing giant's successful ploys. I hate seeing fello audio engineers fall in to these marketing scams.
being an audio engineer is about engineering AUDIO not designing circuits, there is a deep artistry to knowing about mics, preamps and using the acoustics properly, it takes a lot of experience to do it well, there are plenty of engineers who won't know a thing about circuits but it doesn't matter, I don't care if glyn johns knows how to repair an LA2a or not, I would hire him to get me his distinctive sound and would never question somebody of that cailbre's judgement. A gamer can't even come close, we're not falling for any scams, gear is just a part of engineering and we learn that we need things to get certain sounds, they are just tools.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #14
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_ears ➡️
3 different retro gaming communities I share information with talk about replacing IC's, capacitors and other components to fix or upgrade their gear.
It would help validate your views if you provided some links that show where all this talk is taking place...or better yet, examples of actual audio gear that was upgraded by typical gamers for improved audio quality.

I think you misjudge that audio engineers don't do any type audio repairs or upgrades, and that somehow the gamers are ahead of them in that regard.
There may not be a lot of active discussion about it...but many audio engineers have had their hands inside gear for repairs or mods. Some of us have to wear several hats in the smaller studios.
Of course, there are those who are more focused on just engineering the audio recordings, and they can afford to let their resident techs do the tech work.

Please provide some links/examples...I would love to learn more about audio recording gear repair and upgrades from any gamers who are doing it.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I can think of one "engineer" with great success in both design/building and recording/mixing in the studio: George Massenburg. Known for recording skills but educated in electronics is Bruce Swedien.

The crowd ranges from storied professionals to rank beginers. That is why there is such wide variety of skills.

Straight question: Does Berklee include soldering in its curriculum? How to use an oscilloscope, DMM? What about other audio schools?
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Timbaland can solder in remote locations using his ears only. Turns ****ty IC circuits into discrete class a just by beeing in the same room.

Just make sure you have your helmet on, you wouldnt want to get hit by flying ic chips.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_ears ➡️
3 different retro gaming communities I share information with talk about replacing IC's[/B]
IC's.

What are those?

I don't have any analogue pro audio gear with IC's in the signal path.

I guess they might be good enough for gaming audio?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor ➡️
IC's.

What are those?

I don't have any analogue pro audio gear with IC's in the signal path.

I guess they might be good enough for gaming audio?
Touché!
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Retro-anything enthusiasts generally know about repair/replacement/upgrade, because retro means older and often in need of repair/replacement/upgrade. Would you say that these retro-gaming enthusiasts are the best at playing videogames? That is, are they the best at actually using the gear?
It's great to know basic circuits, design, etc. Most experienced audio engineers know at least some actual electrical engineering, and they also know when they don't know something and need to seek out help.
I think you're comparing apples and celery here. You're comparing forums of folks who are totally into old stuff (including repairing it) to forums of folks using gear old, new, & virtual, in all sorts of combinations and with all sorts of preferences.
You could also compare GroupDIY to a gaming forum dedicated to playing the latest games, and see which one has more technical knowledge. It doesn't mean anything.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
This is so funny to read haha))) My 16bit digital AKAI S1100 vintage sampler from 1991 works absolutely fine in 2021! Sounds the same all these years (full of IC's, caps and so on), it was serviced few times (few caps in power supply here and there) but it is easy fix.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 
CurseesConnect's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
I do have to agree that the music on my Nintendo Entertainment System is pretty bad ass. Some of those melodies are stuck in my mind forever.


What are we talking about?
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
I guess there won't be any links to, or examples of, gamers taking audio gear to higher levels than audio engineers.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Fay Smearing's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Will you buy my Atari Jaguar?

The RF modulator connector is a bit loose and glitchy, but the composite video adapter works.

I'll throw in Cybermorph and Alien vs Predator.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden_ears ➡️
Your answer has been added to my above response. I've been on this forum for over a decade and never seen so much disasterous lack of diligence. I get that the majority of forumers just want to swing the dick around, but this garbage has created some pretty worthless "engineers" lately. If your defending that population, then you should do some reflection and realize you may be part of that population. Or just complain that someone has told the uneducated to pick up a book instead of take a forum post as education.
My friend.
I do not question your experience. I question your premise.

I'm sorry to hear you feel the discipline is moving in the wrong direction. I'm not entirely clear on the dick swinging assertion, but if I see any I'll certainly try to keep my face well clear.

I'm not intentionally defending anyone, nor do I think anyone needs defending. Engineering disciplines are difficult. It takes time and experience and a lot of work and study and experimentation to get things where they need to go. I believe all of this still happens.. even if it happens outside of formal employment.

Is everyone a good student? No. Is the internet full of trolls and people puffing up their chests? Sure. It takes time to learn the difference between good and bad info. Some people have better instincts or aptitude than others. This is true of every discipline, and potentially more relevant for engineering disciplines.

I do not know to which "engineers" you refer, so I cannot opine as to their worth, but if the spotify new releases section is any indication, we might not differ here.

As to your bolded assertion, I did not interpret your initial comment as an urging to "pick up a book" as you say, but rather a badly premised argument about gamer forum discussions on headset mods that has no bearing on the state of audio engineering writ large, as far as I can tell. For what it's worth, I've built 2 500 series compressors from kits, 1 fet LDC, a reamp box and the precise number of balanced trs/xlr interconnects it takes to drive a man completely mad, minus 1.

The disciplines of Audio Engineering & Production have attained a mystique that seems to rival that of Artist today. We've also seen a blurring of boundaries regarding the "producer" role and a broad democratization of recording gear. When the barrier to entry is lowered & the draw increased, more tourists show up to dip a toe in the water. Some come expecting fame and fortune to spring forth, but most of those who stick around probably do it for other reasons, obviously.

If you are saying don't expect to become timbaland or greg wells by watching mwtm and buying the hottest plugins, sure, but you are in High End, and if you look around I think you'll find that there is a good proportion of people who take this discipline with some degree of seriousness and try to glean what they can from the wisdom of the elders.

But this is still the internet..
You don't go to the circus not expecting clowns.

I'm still undecided as to whether your seemingly unfounded gamer assertion, gratuitous bolding and phallus-centric observations place you in this camp, but it's leaning that direction my brother.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I’m so glad all the greatest engineers of the recording age spent most of their time building their own gear instead of buying all those pesky “destined to fail” u47s, Fairchilds, etc...
Much better use of time than making records I think.

Old 1 week ago
  #26
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Joking aside. As someone with at least a functional knowledge of electrical audio design, maintenance and building... it seems silly to think that the average modern engineer should concern themselves with these things. Engineering has become so much more of the artistic production process in recent decades. In my experience, that clinical knowledge of engineering principles and gear tech gets in the way of the creative process more often than not.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Also, I feel like this might be a solid troll... based on the fact that ten threads down guys are blind testing op-amps in a 1608. Ask the gamers how they feel about John Hall
Old 6 days ago
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Jesus Christ gearslutz, what the hell happened...
Old 6 days ago
  #29
Gear Head
Smells like Moan Zone here !
Old 6 days ago
  #30
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
golden_ears

Please give some links so that I can read what these modifications are.

Thank you.
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