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cubase using women as marketing bait
Old 1 week ago
  #31
Gear Maniac
i wouldn't know, when was the last time there was a comprehensive survey?

also, is it at all possible that women being driven away by was caused not by a DAW but by something else going on at the time?


EDIT: another point to consider is that, even if there was such a survey, with unbiased methods and a large sample size, and it showed what you claim, that like… "DAW users" (if such a narrowly-defined demographic is viable, like "Gamers" or something("Fake Girl DAW Users lol")) were 60% men and 40% women, or whatever, would the difference be so huge that it justified all pictures of women be struck from all DAW/Sequencer marketing henceforth?
Old 1 week ago
  #32
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotchicken View Post
has anyone seen the banner ad being run on this forum of a woman smiling while using cubase?

everyone knows more men use daws then woman, and if your a man, using daws doesnt attract women, but it drives them away.

so, why would steinberg use this marketing tactic?
So we should have less women in audio product adverts? That's your plan?

Why do you even care what gender she is? That way of thinking is called sexism. Your faux woke virtue signalling is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Making the message in toto be something along the lines of "Using our DAW is as easy as washing your hair. So easy that even a girl can do it. And if you happen to be a girl, so much the better!"

So yeah, the ad's terrible because it's sexist in a condescending way.
You are just projecting based on how you perceive the ad and the woman in it. Your posts reveal more misogyny and old fashioned thinking than the ad itself.

Alistair
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Old 1 week ago
  #33
Gear Maniac
i don't think "we need less girls in marketing because no girl likes digital audio work" is faux-woke, it seems… like… the opposite of that.

vraiment-napping
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #34
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepCircle View Post
i don't think "we need less girls in marketing because no girl likes digital audio work" is faux-woke, it seems… like… the opposite of that.
I'm calling it faux woke in the sense that it is the opposite of what it claims to be but maybe that's how the term woke is used these days anyway. It is hard to keep up.

Alistair
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #35
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
So we should have less women in audio product adverts? That's your plan?

Why do you even care what gender she is? That way of thinking is called sexism. Your faux woke virtue signalling is ridiculous.



You are just projecting based on how you perceive the ad and the woman in it.
I'm basing my perceptions on the assumption that nothing in the ad is random; everything's deliberate. Unlike, say, a mixed-gender Full Sail ad where all eyes are on screens, these darlings have their eyes locked on each other. There's an open bottle of wine (and my god, look where it is)... I mean, wtf about this ad's message are you not perceiving?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #36
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robotchicken's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post

Why do you even care what gender she is?
wouldn't you care if you thought a certain gender was being taken advantage of?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #37
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I'm basing my perceptions on the assumption that nothing in the ad is random; everything's deliberate. Unlike, say, a mixed-gender Full Sail ad where all eyes are on screens, these darlings have their eyes locked on each other. There's an open bottle of wine (and my god, look where it is)... I mean, wtf about this ad's message are you not perceiving?
there's an open bottle of wine? are we looking at the same ad?

https://ocl-steinberg-live.steinberg...xtra-large.jpg

we're talking about this one, right?

and, this might be splitting hairs, but it doesn't look to me like they're looking at each other. she might be looking him—I can't tell for sure—but I'd swear he was looking at the computer screen.

anyway, even if you're correct, this doesn't really have the same "talking down to women" tone as the alleged "you are a woman therefore this DAW is like shampoo for your music" implication you initially came out swinging against.
Old 1 week ago
  #38
Gear Maniac
i don't care about this suddenly
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #39
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepCircle View Post
there's an open bottle of wine? are we looking at the same ad?

https://ocl-steinberg-live.steinberg...xtra-large.jpg

we're talking about this one, right?
I think everyone up to this point has been referring to the banner ad that's probably at the top of the thread right now (since the Bot saw "Cubase"). But in either case, the bottle's right behind her left shoulder.

Quote:
... anyway, even if you're correct, this doesn't really have the same "talking down to women" tone as the alleged "you are a woman therefore this DAW is like shampoo for your music" implication you initially came out swinging against.
My take, distilled, is more that the ad minus the headline is fine, as is the not-entirely-tech messaging. But adding the headline, which is pointless on its own anyway, makes the ad as a whole insulting if you know the origin of the cliche.
Old 1 week ago
  #40
Gear Maniac
you're looking at leaves bro
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #41
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotchicken View Post
wouldn't you care if you thought a certain gender was being taken advantage of?
I see two people hired as models for an advert. Two people doing a job and most likely paid to do it.

Apparently, you don't see one of them as a person. Instead you choose to focus on her gender and you automatically assume that she is being taken advantage of. You assume she is a victim that didn't choose for the situation she is in or somehow isn't even aware that she is being taken advantage of. That in itself is sexist.

Alistair
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #42
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I think everyone up to this point has been referring to the banner ad that's probably at the top of the thread right now (since the Bot saw "Cubase"). But in either case, the bottle's right behind her left shoulder.
That is a leaf from the plant you see behind her, not an open wine bottle. And even if it had been, so what? They are supposed to be creating music. You think everyone is stone cold sober all the time while being creative? What planet do you live on?

Alistair
Old 1 week ago
  #43
Lives for gear
 

Create.
Produce.
Mix.
Repeat.

Those aren't words connected with a pretty girl and any inference to shampoo or whatever tenuous connection one wants to make.

The words and their meaning are imho a reflection of youth today and their obsession with instant gratification with minimum effort.

In my generation (I'm 57) the number of females I personally know using DAW's - Zero!

In my kids generation there's lot's of girls using software to produce music, the whole boy/girl thing is gone, well that's
certainly true of the kids I know today through my teenage boys.

Steinberg are showing a couple of 20 somethings making music in a studio, a boy and a girl .... seems perfectly reasonable to me, they see that as there growth target audience.
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #44
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
That is a leaf from the plant you see behind her, not an open wine bottle. And even if it had been, so what? They are supposed to be creating music. You think everyone is stone cold sober all the time while being creative? What planet do you live on?

Alistair
your positive contribution in pointing out the facts was like IMMEDIATELY followed up by "LOLLL what planet are YOU from" which probably cancelled it out kind of
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #45
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
My take, distilled, is more that the ad minus the headline is fine, as is the not-entirely-tech messaging. But adding the headline, which is pointless on its own anyway, makes the ad as a whole insulting if you know the origin of the cliche.
You're giving a lot of credit to the writers of that ad though, and you're also assuming that its origin is North American. How do you know that it didn't originate in Germany or that even if it is an ad created in North America that the creators even were aware of its meaning?

It's a step-by-step process that highlights that we can do all those things within one app: We can be creative and compose, we can then produce our music, and we can then mix it. And it's so great an experience and so smooth that when we're done we'll do it again. We'll repeat the process.
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #46
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I'm basing my perceptions on the assumption that nothing in the ad is random; everything's deliberate.
Of course. Me too.

Quote:
Unlike, say, a mixed-gender Full Sail ad where all eyes are on screens, these darlings have their eyes locked on each other. There's an open bottle of wine (and my god, look where it is)... I mean, wtf about this ad's message are you not perceiving?
I'm certainly not perceiving them in the old fashioned gender roles you are ascribing to them. You are making them into darlings, not the ad makers.

I see the picture as representing two people working together and exchanging a look because something works well, something sounds great etc. The spark of creative energy when things are flowing. Do you never exchange looks with musical collaborators while making music? A happy glance because something you have been working on together just fits into place? Or because someone has a good musical idea? That is the scene being portrayed in the picture.

As for the term rinse and repeat, it doesn't matter where it started, it has since long been adopted all over the place for all sorts of activities. It is just an expression now. There is no widespread public association with shampoo bottles in 2020 and certainly no one was thinking that when they wrote that text for this ad.

Alistair
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #47
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Of course. Me too.

I'm certainly not perceiving them in the old fashioned gender roles you are ascribing to them. You are making them into darlings, not the ad makers.

I see the picture as representing two people working together and exchanging a look because something works well, something sounds great etc. The spark of creative energy when things are flowing. Do you never exchange looks with musical collaborators while making music? A happy glance because something you have been working on together just fits into place? Or because someone has a good musical idea? That is the scene being portrayed in the picture.

As for the term rinse and repeat, it doesn't matter where it started, it has since long been adopted all over the place for all sorts of activities. It is just an expression now. There is no widespread public association with shampoo bottles in 2020 and certainly no one was thinking that when they wrote that text for this ad.

Alistair
I agree with everything you've said in this thread. And I'd add this:

Wouldn't we actually expect people in favor of equality for women to be annoyed if all the ads were of men? I mean, what message would that send? It'd say (to some) that only dudes use this software... why? 'cause they're the only ones talented enough? Smart enough? Technically inclined enough?

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Old 1 week ago
  #48
Gear Maniac
 
HerbDelux's Avatar
 

Just to chime in here, I happen to know a near-fair amount of women who are getting into DJing and production. And some of them have big disposable incomes.

I think at the end of the day: men are going to buy a DAW for reasons other than how cool the advertisment was.

All we have here is a classic case of someone hiring a market research firm, who then told them that the most profitable banner ad they could make would have an attractive female using their product.
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

this pandemic needs to end so everyone can go back to work - you all have waaaayyy too much time on your hands.
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #50
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_b_b View Post
this pandemic needs to end so everyone can go back to work - you all have waaaayyy too much time on your hands.
I'm working from home. I can engage in multi-slacking at home just as well as at the office..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #51
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robotchicken View Post
They're your knuckles, not mine.

Sorry. Maybe I shouldn't have been insulting.

The point is, or the points are:

Chicks are COOL!

Chicks in audio are COOL!

There are more chicks in audio every day, and that's COOL!

This has been a trend. It's old fashioned to think otherwise; maybe not Troglodyte old fashioned, but it's outdated.

We can use more chicks in audio and everything else.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #52
Lives for gear
 
robotchicken's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post

Chicks are COOL!.

no they aren't man, chicks suck.
Old 1 week ago
  #53
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

I don't know that the creators of the ad know the origins of "Lather, rinse, repeat." If they are young enough, if it's just a cliche way to express something. Also, if they are young enough, they're including boys and girls because that's what they see and what they believe in. You COULD say that this ad is institutionally racist because they thought to have a girl, but forgot non whites. I think that's not impossible, but it's probably reading WAY more into it.

I confess that when I saw the ad, I thought about Cubase. I saw the girl. I knew she was a girl. She didn't seem out of place. Maybe I'm just a dork.
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cubase using women as marketing bait-screen-shot-2020-11-21-5.05.41-pm.png  
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #54
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopypants View Post
I confess that when I saw the ad, I thought about Cubase. I saw the girl. I knew she was a girl. She didn't seem out of place.
I'm totally with you. You didn't see the headline because it's so meaningless. But if they're going to have a meaningless headline, why'd they pick that?

And speaking of lamer than merely meaningless GS banner-ad headlines, how about Reverb's "Used Gear. For Less." For less than what? For less than before they hired an ad agency and bumped up their commission to pay for it? Naw, they must mean for less than something else.
Old 1 week ago
  #55
Well. How about us guys get used to the fact that - gasp - women also use DAWs?

So stupid to even start a thread about that ad.
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #56
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robotchicken's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
Well. How about us guys get used to the fact that - gasp - women also use DAWs?

So stupid to even start a thread about that ad.
but they dont tho...not at the rate men do. and to advertise on a site that is almost all men...hmmmm

would someone from steinberg please give your input. thanks
Old 1 week ago
  #57
Gear Maniac
so the two guys we have arguing against the ad seem to be:
1: a proto-incel who believes that "chicks suck" and that this banner ad is taking advantage of men
2: a guy who, when proven factually wrong about something, went quiet for a bit and then—without ever once admitting a single fault—changed the subject completely
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #58
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepCircle View Post
... a guy who, when proven factually wrong about something...
I guess that's me. If the "fact" is the wine bottle, I still think it's a wine bottle.
Old 1 week ago
  #59
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Poopypants's Avatar
 

Ceci n'est pas un pipe
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #60
Gear Maniac
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