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12 years vocal practice, Nothing helps
Old 13th July 2020
  #1
Here for the gear
 

12 years vocal practice, Nothing helps

Hi

Like many others, I have always wanted to produce my own songs,
DAW wise and production wise it gets better,
BUT I've never been satisfied with my vocals.

So I`ve taken some song lessons from different teachers over
and tried to improve over a 12 years period, but I'm kinda giving up now.
Yep, you read right.....12 years on and off.....

I just dont think my voice are made for singing
I dont think it sounds as good as needed to make my own songs
release them.

What do you think about my vocals and what can I do to improve them?
(please... raw and honest opinion)

Soundcloud link
Http://soundcloud.com/glen-viekaer-rose/sets/testing

Your help is greatly appreciated

Last edited by psycho_monkey; 15th July 2020 at 12:13 PM..
Old 13th July 2020
  #2
Sadly, not everyone is gifted with a singing voice. 😒
Old 14th July 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
 
syntheticrhyme's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grose83 View Post
Hi

Like many others, I have always wanted to produce my own songs,
DAW wise and production wise it gets better,
BUT I've never been satisfied with my vocals.

So I`ve taken some song lessons from different teachers over
and tried to improve over a 12 years period, but I'm kinda giving up now.
Yep, you read right.....12 years on and off.....

I just dont think my voice are made for singing
I dont think it sounds as good as needed to make my own songs
release them.

What do you think about my vocals and what can I do to improve them?
(please... raw and honest opinion)

Soundcloud link
soundcloud.com/glen-viekaer-rose/sets/testing

Your help is greatly appreciated
Don't give up. On and off singing is different than actually training your voice. I've never had vocal training, but I've been doing vocal warmups and tutorials daily (at least one hour per day). I would suggest going through YouTube and picking a 30 minute warm up video along with possibly a riffs and runs video and do it every single day consistently for a month. I'm sure you'll see an improvement. Below are a couple of videos of me singing. That's all I do, practice daily on my own

Old 14th July 2020
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by syntheticrhyme View Post
Don't give up. On and off singing is different than actually training your voice. I've never had vocal training, but I've been doing vocal warmups and tutorials daily (at least one hour per day). I would suggest going through YouTube and picking a 30 minute warm up video along with possibly a riffs and runs video and do it every single day consistently for a month. I'm sure you'll see an improvement. Below are a couple of videos of me singing. That's all I do, practice daily on my own

Ok thanks. Did you listen to my soundcloud?
You Voice sounds good.

Thanks for the tips
Old 14th July 2020
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Guru View Post
Sadly, not everyone is gifted with a singing voice. 😒
I Agree, did you listen to the samles at soundcloud?
Old 14th July 2020
  #6
Gear Addict
 

I'm sure he did and so did I. Like my 7th grade music teacher said to me in front of the class during vocal auditions...just move you lips but don't sing. Are we related? Not everyone has a talent for vocals. Concentrate on what you're really good at, which may or may not include music.

g
Old 14th July 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
 
syntheticrhyme's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grose83 View Post
Ok thanks. Did you listen to my soundcloud?
You Voice sounds good.

Thanks for the tips
Thanks, yes I heard it. I think you just need to train your voice daily
Old 15th July 2020
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Turn your story into a screenplay, obviously change the ending - see if that works.

I can't sing for *&!#$ and am amazed at those that can.
Old 15th July 2020
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps View Post
I'm sure he did and so did I. Like my 7th grade music teacher said to me in front of the class during vocal auditions...just move you lips but don't sing. Are we related? Not everyone has a talent for vocals. Concentrate on what you're really good at, which may or may not include music.

g
I had a listen to the Soundcloud - a good vocal producer could make that sound really great. I’ve recorded far worse!

To the OP - your tone is good, your pitching a little suspect. The good thing is that if you’ve got some ear for it (and you have), concerted effort can improve pitching. It’s harder to improve tone. Personally I’ve got a pretty flat sounding voice, fine for BVs, no character as a lead singer!

But - great vocalists generally just have it. Cliche or not, the “X-Factor” is a real thing - some people just have massive character and own the song.

The other bit of good news is there’s plenty of singers, especially as part of a band (Tim Wheeler of Ash, I’m talking about you) where the singer’s vocal quality isn’t as important as the message or the attitude.
Old 15th July 2020
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Okay, listened again and here's what I hear.
You're tentative and holding back.
Your breathing is wrong like you're trying to sing using minimum air.
Stop the nasal intonation.
You sound like you're afraid of the mic and that someone may hear you sing out loud.

What did the teachers say about your voice?
Are you listening your voice through the headphones while recording? If so, stop.
Are you recording the backing track and singing at the same time? If so, stop. Hold the guitar if you want but don't play. Had a band that was playing together for 17 years and this was their first studio trip. The singer couldn't sing 1 song and kept getting worse with every take especially when his mates made fun of him. He had been performing this song since the beginning. So I asked the band what he played (I rarely paid attention to who played what) and they pointed to his guitar. I then took it into the vocal room and told him to put it on and air play the song. 1 take later the song was done. He had never sung the song without his guitar.

g
Old 15th July 2020
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Guru View Post
Sadly, not everyone is gifted with a singing voice. 😒
And not everyone is gifted with tact. :-)
Old 15th July 2020
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I had a listen to the Soundcloud - a good vocal producer could make that sound really great.
Amen.

Quote:
... your tone is good, your pitching a little suspect.
I find the inbuilt emotion and vulnerability very appealing, actually. And I don't really even have major issues with the pitch. But I would encourage our OP to have a concrete plan for what he's going to do at the ends of phrases, rather than letting them dribble aimlessly off the edge of the table. It's the singer's equivalent of a sprinter's "pushing through the tape." Most of the singers whose records we love have tremendous discipline when it comes to that. A couple of really noteworthy guys in that regard are Steven Tyler and Joe Whatshisname with Def Leppard (and I don't like Def Leppard), or anyone else Mutt has gotten his hands on -- he's a superb vocal coach.
Old 15th July 2020
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And not everyone is gifted with tact. :-)
It was just a general comment & not directed at the OP.
Old 15th July 2020
  #14
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

John Lennon HATED his own voice!

...But he NEEDED to sing (and so sing he did).

The secret is to just go ahead and sing out.

(It helps when tracking vox to turn your own voice way down in the cans, and sing louder.)

It is quite easy to feel self-conscious (kinda like "but everyone will see my weenie").

...Still, no matter the "quality" of your voice, it is still better to just go ahead and sing out anyway (kinda like "shake it around and beat against everything, since you've got it out anyway").

You don't even really need a particularly great voice to do great vocals.

Handy examples are:
Bob Dylan

Neil Young

Frank Zappa

...This list goes on and on...
Old 15th July 2020
  #15
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I had a listen to the Soundcloud - a good vocal producer could make that sound really great. I’ve recorded far worse!

To the OP - your tone is good, your pitching a little suspect. The good thing is that if you’ve got some ear for it (and you have), concerted effort can improve pitching. It’s harder to improve tone. Personally I’ve got a pretty flat sounding voice, fine for BVs, no character as a lead singer!

But - great vocalists generally just have it. Cliche or not, the “X-Factor” is a real thing - some people just have massive character and own the song.

The other bit of good news is there’s plenty of singers, especially as part of a band (Tim Wheeler of Ash, I’m talking about you) where the singer’s vocal quality isn’t as important as the message or the attitude.
I agree, some just Got that great sounding sounding Voice, "right Our of the box" with no vocal training.
****ing unfair
Old 15th July 2020
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps View Post
Okay, listened again and here's what I hear.
You're tentative and holding back.
Your breathing is wrong like you're trying to sing using minimum air.
Stop the nasal intonation.
You sound like you're afraid of the mic and that someone may hear you sing out loud.

What did the teachers say about your voice?
Are you listening your voice through the headphones while recording? If so, stop.
Are you recording the backing track and singing at the same time? If so, stop. Hold the guitar if you want but don't play. Had a band that was playing together for 17 years and this was their first studio trip. The singer couldn't sing 1 song and kept getting worse with every take especially when his mates made fun of him. He had been performing this song since the beginning. So I asked the band what he played (I rarely paid attention to who played what) and they pointed to his guitar. I then took it into the vocal room and told him to put it on and air play the song. 1 take later the song was done. He had never sung the song without his guitar.

g
Im playing guitar at the same time, but not using headphones. I Think Ill try without the guitar to a background track. Nice story about the band

I can understand what you mean about Holding back and being nasal.... I gotta Work on it somehow......

The teachers ive used through the years just practiced techniques and didnt comment on the tone.
Old 15th July 2020
  #17
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Amen.



I find the inbuilt emotion and vulnerability very appealing, actually. And I don't really even have major issues with the pitch. But I would encourage our OP to have a concrete plan for what he's going to do at the ends of phrases, rather than letting them dribble aimlessly off the edge of the table. It's the singer's equivalent of a sprinter's "pushing through the tape." Most of the singers whose records we love have tremendous discipline when it comes to that. A couple of really noteworthy guys in that regard are Steven Tyler and Joe Whatshisname with Def Leppard (and I don't like Def Leppard), or anyone else Mutt has gotten his hands on -- he's a superb vocal coach.
Just listened to dont Wanna miss a thing with aerosmith, and yep i get what you mean. He finishen the phrases in a fantastic way.

Ill keep your point in mind. Thanks!
Old 15th July 2020
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
John Lennon HATED his own voice!

...But he NEEDED to sing (and so sing he did).

The secret is to just go ahead and sing out.

(It helps when tracking vox to turn your own voice way down in the cans, and sing louder.)

It is quite easy to feel self-conscious (kinda like "but everyone will see my weenie").

...Still, no matter the "quality" of your voice, it is still better to just go ahead and sing out anyway (kinda like "shake it around and beat against everything, since you've got it out anyway").

You don't even really need a particularly great voice to do great vocals.

Handy examples are:
Bob Dylan

Neil Young

Frank Zappa

[/INDENT]

It seems to be what I hear a Lot. That im Holding back and yes it REALLY DOES feel like im bare naked, and everyone Will Laugh at be, Because of my Voice not sounding good Enough.......


So it is a good tip to turn down the headphone and just belt Out as louds i can......


So my plan is to try and Record a backgrpind guitar,
Sing on top of that track, as loud and possible and Work a bit on the pitch.

Thanks for the comments everyone. They are Very appriciated
Old 15th July 2020
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grose83 View Post
So it is a good tip to turn down the headphone and just belt Out as louds i can......
Not for what you're doing, no. It's pretty clear, among the responses, who listened to your clip and who didn't.
Old 16th July 2020
  #20
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Not for what you're doing, no. It's pretty clear, among the responses, who listened to your clip and who didn't.
I never suggested "belting" (just being more unabashed).

And as I think more about it, I'd say maybe just get rid of the headphones altogether (when there are no pre-recorded tracks to follow).

...But to me, the biggest problem with the example track is that the room sounds like ass (but I thought we were talking about performance here, not tech concerns).
Old 16th July 2020
  #21
Gear Addict
 

It's not about loudness per se, it's about confidence in your ability. I'm not sure how to give that to you other than another story.

Had a client who again could not hit a note to save her life once in the vocal room. After several hours of failed efforts I went in and told her to imagine herself on stage sing to a sold out venue full of guys who were there because they loved her music...plus she was really hotter than hell. I then told her that there was one guy who hated her music, was blind and needed 3 boots,one for each leg...wink wink. I then told her to close her eyes and sing to just that guy and no one else. One take later the song was done.
Bottom line, everyone has their story or "thing" that takes them home and whether it's you or someone else giving you that push it's there. Just don't over think it. Yeah I know 12 years is a bit of a while but you look a hell of a lot younger than me and have plenty of time left to succeed. If not, at least you gave it all you reasonably could. Then, maybe concentrate on writing good material that someone with "the voice" can give you another kind of success in this business.

g
Old 16th July 2020
  #22
Here for the gear
 

@ gramps im 37 summers....... so not that young any more 😄

I Think Ill try some diffent things while recording it. Perhabs Ill see the light
Old 16th July 2020
  #23
Gear Addict
 

I've got 70 of those summers. Never even thought I'd see half that...life is good. Honestly I'm not sure if I ever had a vocalist who liked their voice, even the one take wonders who didn't need another pass and my job was to get the best out of them. Not perfection, just the best. So just relax and sing to that person in the audience you need to win over.

g
Old 16th July 2020
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by grose83 View Post
I gotta Work on it somehow......

The teachers ive used through the years just practiced techniques and didnt comment on the tone.
Hi,

Those techniques were likely offered as solutions to perceived issues. Both with intonation and tone. But if you don't practice them regularly and diligently they won't be of much help. They have to become second nature - something you don't have to consciously think about. I'm a violinist, but I come from a family of singers. Right now I've got echoes of stuff about support and the diaphragm happening, but I think some singers get the support from elsewhere.

I'm with Brent on "pushing through the tape". I like to think of it as a string (naturally) that can't be allowed to go slack. You don't necessarily want to think tension beyond what is needed to keep the string from going slack though. Just taught, firm and don't let go until it's time.

It's good that you can hear that some things need some work. Can you hear where you are out of tune and whether you are too low or high? I don't think you can just strap on a newer more confident attitude and solve your issues. Confidence will come from solving them with techniques and practice. Don't give up until you've given those things a fair chance.

Best of luck!

GF
Old 16th July 2020
  #25
Gear Addict
 

In all due respect, I think that after 12 years his confidence level is part of the problem. I'm not suggesting the he tell himself "I'm the greatest ever to walk the face of this earth" but honestly look at himself and admit he has some talent. If not, what has he been doing but "pushing through" during those 12 years without achieving his goal of being able to sing better. He can shout to the wind and still not get what he wants. Either his vocal coaches were just being nice by not being honest about his talent or lack there of. Or they got their money and quietly walked away.

I know I have definitely spent any or enough time with him to know but experience has shown me that confidence plays a major role not only in our self perception but that of others of us as well. Your violin playing does not rely on proper breathing and yes I know if you don't breathe eventually you'll stop playing but vocals are a different animal entirely. We all have different opinions and right or wrong; mine come from the production side of the coin.

g
Old 16th July 2020
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps View Post
In all due respect, I think that after 12 years his confidence level is part of the problem. I'm not suggesting the he tell himself "I'm the greatest ever to walk the face of this earth" but honestly look at himself and admit he has some talent. If not, what has he been doing but "pushing through" during those 12 years without achieving his goal of being able to sing better. He can shout to the wind and still not get what he wants. Either his vocal coaches were just being nice by not being honest about his talent or lack there of. Or they got their money and quietly walked away.

I know I have definitely spent any or enough time with him to know but experience has shown me that confidence plays a major role not only in our self perception but that of others of us as well. Your violin playing does not rely on proper breathing and yes I know if you don't breathe eventually you'll stop playing but vocals are a different animal entirely. We all have different opinions and right or wrong; mine come from the production side of the coin.

g
By his own admission he hasn't been consistent in his study. That doesn't rate as pushing through to me. That's dabbling.

I think it's unlikely that pulling some confidence out of thin air when he can hear for himself his shortcomings will provide any lasting solution to basic issues of intonation, tone, or projection for that matter. Confidence has to be based on something concrete, IMO.

BTW, I've taught students who had considerably less going for them. I collected my grubby $20, $30. Yes. They may have had no future as violinists, but it's not like there was nothing at all to be gained for them. Fortunately none of them asked me if I thought it possible that they might have a future as a violinist...one that plays well and gets paid. Doing my best to not crush spirits, I'd have told them the truth as I saw it.

From the musician side of the coin, their are numerous associations that can be made between the string player and the singer. Our bow is our breath and it's got to be managed as well, often in much the same way. I think it's been said that the violin is the most voice like of all the instruments.

I'll bow out though.

Excuse me.
Old 16th July 2020
  #27
Gear Addict
 

Since we know so little about his actual experience sans his few words and can only speculate his reality it's all guess work for us both. As a guitar and piano player for 50/60+ years, not breathing properly has and has had little effect on my playing...unless of course I'm turning blue from Hypoxia. But, I'm amazed at how well I actually played before numerous hand injuries (as a carpenter) 30+ years ago as opposed to now, being older and slower...and apparently not much wiser as the music teacher's words still echo in my head.
Old 16th July 2020
  #28
Gear Addict
 

I tried to delete the unwanted duplicate but obviously it's still here.
Old 16th July 2020
  #29
Lives for gear
find the right style of music for your voice
Old 17th July 2020
  #30
Gear Addict
 

About the whole feeling naked thing... Maybe go to one of those clothing optional places and give it a shot and see if there's a difference.

just kidding of course.

good luck.
g
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