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How is this not criminal
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1
Gear Maniac
How is this not criminal

How is this not criminal?
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Old 3rd July 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Red Black's Avatar
In a country with strong consumer rights it pretty much would be illegal.

What website is that on?
Old 3rd July 2020
  #3
Old 3rd July 2020
  #4
Lives for gear
 

The thing is my mama told me way back when I was a very young man a few key guides to navigate life, one being.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

It seems now, fools have dedicated shops and products!

Silver wire to transmit data .... yeah coz ordinary wire tends to make 1+1 = 2.001

I just hope the people buying these products, that pray on there lack of .... (I'm feeling charitable) "knowledge" .... can easily afford to throw their money away.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #5
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Black View Post
In a country with strong consumer rights it pretty much would be illegal.

What website is that on?
https://www.jdaudioonline.com.au/pro...elect-ks-2436/
Old 3rd July 2020
  #6
Gear Maniac
More gems
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Old 3rd July 2020
  #7
".... the KS2400 series delivers awesome improvements in sound quality that simply cannot be achieved by mass produced machine-built cables.... the KS2400 series lowers the noise floor and increases the dynamics across the entire tonal range..."

Specific claims like that would get you taken to court in the UK by trading standards/ASA.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Silver IS the best electrical conductor. Proven by science. Does it translate to better sound quality? Subjective, at best. Silver also has an inherent value dictated by market dynamics.

19k for a cable? Effing hilarious. Wish I could sell a 19k dollar cable to someone...
Old 3rd July 2020
  #9
Gear Nut
 

I have to dig out that shop again that sells "cable pyramid" standoffs, that are designed (of course by a herd of German engineers) to PREVENT FLOOR VIBRATIONS COMING INTO YOUR AUDIO by lifting up by 1cm...

not even joking, and they were something like a few hundred euros for a single 1x1x1cm aluminum part... of which you´d obviously need dozens of for longer cable runs.

in my circles, we use "audiophile" as synonymous for "rich idiots".
Old 3rd July 2020
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
Silver IS the best electrical conductor. Proven by science.
I keep hearing this about silver (or gold) but from what I remember, an element with a single electron in the outer shell of its basic atom will conduct the best. Both silver and copper share that attribute. Maybe due to the outer shell being farther from the nucleus?

I'll have to go back to my grade 10 text book to sort that one out!
Old 3rd July 2020
  #11
There might be some mileage in arguing about analogue signal transfer and cable type and whether better conductance = better audio properties (personally I have a million weaker links in my set-up before worrying about cables).

But these are digital... How does the a cheap USB cable know which bits of data whizzing down the cable are encoding the dynamic range and so know to damage it?!? The implication from the seller is that cheap cables somehow un-encode the signal, process it, and selectively damage dynamic range information with the flow of bits. It's beyond ridiculous.

Digital either gets mangled or is perfect. Suggesting there is a subtle effect is madness.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #12
Ray Kimber is a great guy and makes some of the best wire in the world. I have visited his very large Ogden, Utah factory. Unlike cable posers like Monster, Ray does the research and has the best test equipment like a $50,000 Agilent network analyzer.

I use a lot of his wire here. I use the excellent 8TC speaker cables in 3 rooms. The analog console faders are wired with the pure silver 3 braid solid core "Black Pearls" wire. The feeds from the console to the ADC is a pair of 19 awg pure silver AGSS 3 braid. I also use a run of that stuff as a mic cable. Even the condenser mics here are wired off the capsules with a piece of silver Black Pearls wire.

Besides the unequalled resolution that cable is also strangely quiet. At the factory Ray wrapped it around the very large Krell power amp power transformers and then into one of my High Speed mic preamps. No noise, nothing. All that background grunge heard with regular shielded mic cables was gone.

As much as I would like one of his USB/HDMI cables I popped for the lower cost options from Pangea. I use a silver plated HDMI cable from the cable box to the TV, it's much better than the off the shelf stuff and costs around $50.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
I can't imagine inhabiting a body that can hear that much difference in wire. Whether or not it's real. It'd drive me crazy and almost certainly inhibit my ability to be musical. And the sound of cable and satellite is so effed up at the source that a fancy cable coming out of the box strikes me as a complete waste. But good for Ray Kimber for developing his products and finding people who need them.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #14
Gear Maniac
So the question is: Is it justified for a 3 meters long stereo pair cable to cost over 42,000 Australian Dollars? (I’m not sure if the price is in Australian Dollar or USD, but since it’s an Australian website let’s go with oz$). Is a 42,000 Dollars stereo cable that’s 3 meters long justified?

I don’t know about many of you, but personally I’d rather spend that kind of money on a DAD AX32, Dynaudio Core 59, Royer SF-24V, and either a C700S or Chandler Limited REDD depending on how much money I have left, than a 3 meters cable, no matter how magical it is.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #15
Lives for gear
 

I see TONS of cable arguments in the hifi forums I frequent.

My argument for those particular about the subject is usually:

"Don't you want what they used at the studio? If Frank Sinatra/Adele/Diana Krall sings through a standard mic cable, wouldn't that same cable be the most appropriate in your system to replicate whatever 'magic' you are trying to produce at home? How can a $1K cable reproduce sound that was captured through a $20 cable more accurately?"
Old 3rd July 2020
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfghdhr View Post
So the question is: Is it justified for a 3 meters long stereo pair cable to cost over 42,000 Australian Dollars? (I’m not sure if the price is in Australian Dollar or USD, but since it’s an Australian website let’s go with oz$). Is a 42,000 Dollars stereo cable that’s 3 meters long justified?

I don’t know about many of you, but personally I’d rather spend that kind of money on a DAD AX32, Dynaudio Core 59, Royer SF-24V, and either a C700S or Chandler Limited REDD depending on how much money I have left, than a 3 meters cable, no matter how magical it is.
I'd replace those $42K cables with $1K of acoustic treatment every time!
May as well buy a car just for Sundays instead if you have the scratch. Or just hire the freakin' band to come play in your living room!
Old 3rd July 2020
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
The thing is my mama told me way back when I was a very young man a few key guides to navigate life, one being.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

It seems now, fools have dedicated shops and products!

Silver wire to transmit data .... yeah coz ordinary wire tends to make 1+1 = 2.001

I just hope the people buying these products, that pray on there lack of .... (I'm feeling charitable) "knowledge" .... can easily afford to throw their money away.
Wow... using this cable will make my 1 and 0 sound better )
Old 3rd July 2020
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry123 View Post
I see TONS of cable arguments in the hifi forums I frequent.

My argument for those particular about the subject is usually:

"Don't you want what they used at the studio? If Frank Sinatra/Adele/Diana Krall sings through a standard mic cable, wouldn't that same cable be the most appropriate in your system to replicate whatever 'magic' you are trying to produce at home? How can a $1K cable reproduce sound that was captured through a $20 cable more accurately?"
Amen!!
Old 3rd July 2020
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry123 View Post
I keep hearing this about silver (or gold) but from what I remember, an element with a single electron in the outer shell of its basic atom will conduct the best. Both silver and copper share that attribute. Maybe due to the outer shell being farther from the nucleus?

I'll have to go back to my grade 10 text book to sort that one out!

A copper atom has 1 less energy shell than does a silver atom. Conductivity is not the same for all metals, and independent of electron concentration. If electrons were the determining factor in conductivity, Gold would be the most conductive. Gold has 1 more energy shell than does Silver. Silver has the highest Fermi surface area of any of the Group 11 metals. The Fermi surface area measures the crystal lattice of matter. Silver is unique in this respect...

Larger Fermi surface area equals higher conductivity. It beats copper and gold, but not by much. Plus, silver tarnishes, which will affect frequency response....

Copper equals best all around performance. Cables do make a difference, and the extra cost and maintenance for silver make copper a no brainer.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #20
Gear Addict
 
uOpt's Avatar
If low resistance is really that important to them they can just use much greater diameter.

If it gets too heavy us aluminum, which beats both in conductivity by weight. And corrosion resistance in most environments.
Old 4th July 2020
  #21
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Digital either works or it doesn’t... all of this science about metallurgy doesn’t really factor into the natter

I like the Frank Sinatra mic cable analogy, though... a lot. Similarly, if you’re listening to a 90s record recorded onto adat, mixed down to DAT or minidisc (lol) what exactly is the point of listening back to all of that through $48,009 work of cables made from Unibtanium, other than to show off how good you are at wasting money and waxing on about Unobtanium?
Old 4th July 2020
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
Digital either works or it doesn’t... all of this science about metallurgy doesn’t really factor into the natter

I like the Frank Sinatra mic cable analogy, though... a lot. Similarly, if you’re listening to a 90s record recorded onto adat, mixed down to DAT or minidisc (lol) what exactly is the point of listening back to all of that through $48,009 work of cables made from Unibtanium, other than to show off how good you are at wasting money and waxing on about Unobtanium?


Actually, it does smart guy. If a person thinks think that the improved conductivity of silver will make their life better, they will buy my 19 thousand dollar hand woven silver cable. And, in turn my life will be better....
Old 4th July 2020
  #23
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKMK00 View Post
Actually, it does smart guy. If a person thinks think that the improved conductivity of silver will make their life better, they will buy my 19 thousand dollar hand woven silver cable. And, in turn my life will be better....
Hahaha
Fair enough
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Kronos147's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I can't imagine inhabiting a body that can hear that much difference in wire.
Try a cheap guitar cable vs. Mogami wire. If you can't hear it, I owe you a Starbucks.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos147 View Post
Try a cheap guitar cable vs. Mogami wire. If you can't hear it, I owe you a Starbucks.
That's different and way more obvious. With lo-cap guitar cable I can hear the difference between a 10-footer and a 20-footer. But when someone says he can hear the difference when he puts an inch of fancy wire between his mic's capsule and guts, well, I don't think I'm gonna be able to hear that. And I really wouldn't want to. That degree of acuity would ruin music-making and recording for me.

Last edited by Brent Hahn; 4 weeks ago at 07:07 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
"A second lease on life for your aging printer...your documents have never looked so good!"
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos147 View Post
Try a cheap guitar cable vs. Mogami wire. If you can't hear it, I owe you a Starbucks.
Someone already did: https://gizmodo.com/audiophile-death...-hanger-363154

Should I PM you my Paypal address? I will take a venti 🤡
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
Gear Addict
 
uOpt's Avatar
Cables for passive guitars are a different matter entirely.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfghdhr View Post
How is this not criminal?
It should not be outlawed. People should get a chance to buy what they want, even if you think it doesn’t make an iota of sense.

Some bureaucrat is going to try to outlaw analog gear because they can’t tell any difference and it serves the “public interest”. It’s a slippery slope.

Tubes are dangerous. Nitrocellulose is dangerous. That’s life. It can get to the point where life isn’t even worth living.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #30
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfghdhr View Post
How is this not criminal?
It's too funny.
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