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Is trying to promote yourself on social media a waste of time?
Old 3rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Eye View Post
As I said yesterday, my view is that if you aren't doing it solely for yourself and you aren't trying to become massive then it should be about community. You should be trying to help play a small part in supporting a scene... whether that's a genre scene in a city or it's a wider scene in a small town... in my view you should try to forge real world connections and get involved with events - at the least by showing your face and supporting them, meeting other acts and promoters.

Good luck
You're right, but unfortunately, it's the economic reality that I'm facing that's keeping me from doing that. Greece was hit hard by a financial crisis that lasted a decade (and another one is round the corner). For the past few years, I've been unable to deal with anything other that basic necessities. A coffee at a friend's house, every now and then, that's about my only fun activity. No going out, no gigs or anything. That's why I only mentioned doing stuff online. It's difficult to be a part of a community this way.
Old 3rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #92
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Eye View Post
My predictions based on your posts -

(1) You make appallingly bad music. (Please don't share it!!!! lololo)
(2) Your personality is not good either. Either you have appalling taste which reflects a defective heart and soul, or you are a cynical person doing it for the money. If the latter why should I be any more interested in you than I would be someone who does something else for money like work in an office or flip burgers?
(3) You're not a full time artist, you're a full time bell-end and VST operator / ****fest supplier.
Just for the record, without getting into this pointless slagfest, hellohead is legit. Released music with multi-million plays, on a big label etc.

So much for your predictions...

Alistair
Old 3rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #93
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by denstrow View Post
You're right, but unfortunately, it's the economic reality that I'm facing that's keeping me from doing that. Greece was hit hard by a financial crisis that lasted a decade (and another one is round the corner). For the past few years, I've been unable to deal with anything other that basic necessities. A coffee at a friend's house, every now and then, that's about my only fun activity. No going out, no gigs or anything. That's why I only mentioned doing stuff online. It's difficult to be a part of a community this way.
It's difficult I get it, but I was in Crete 3 years ago. I went to visit my family there and brought my laptop as well. Went to the beach, put my headphones on and worked on a remix (that I wasn't assigned to do btw), finished it in a day, and that remix was downloaded 28k times on soundcloud. All it took was a mouse and my laptop, and I came up with something cool. What I've learned as a person (and a father) is that, sometimes you gotta make things happen with what you got. You'll never be in an ideal situation, but you can spend the time to be creative. You gotta find avenues. And yes I agree, Greece has been hit hard economically (a lot of Crete is owned by Lybians or Germans now), but sometimes in the darkest times is where you'll do your best work, when you're down and out. Why dont you make music about your struggles? I bet a lot of people would sympathize with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Just for the record, without getting into this pointless slagfest, hellohead is legit. Released music with multi-million plays, on a big label etc.

So much for your predictions...

Alistair
Long post ahead:

It's all good haha, I was just coming here for gear talk mostly, and then I saw a post about a Greek person looking for some music advice, and was trying to be helpful. I can be brash at times but I mean well. I should apologize to Ken Lewis too for coming at him like that out of nowhere, I know they work hard over there at the Kanye/Travis Scott/kid Cudi camp.

I was on this forum 10 years ago as a very young and immature person, and I had a lot of frustrations because i was trying to have a career in music, was failing, and yes, I got banned from here back then (and I deserved it). Took me until I was 27 (and choosing to release under a different artist name) that things started working out for me. It's hard when you feel like the world is against you in that sense, and it's also another reason why this thread struck a chord with me.

I'm definitely a good example of someone who can fail for a long time, readjust and finally find an opening to strive as an artist.

7 years ago, I was living at my parent's home and i had just finished a masters degree, i had 4k in my bank account (from tutoring in college) and decided to buy a used c800g, cleaned my account right up, and my parents were furious and were pushing me to go and find a job (which i should have, and should have moved out to do my own thing). I didn't know anyone in the industry, and I thought that joining this forum would be a good way to possibly get in touch with people and network. And I pissed off Ken Lewis a few times, and he bit back as he should have, and I took it the wrong way, but it was my own wrongdoing.

So 6 years ago I was broke, and then I changed the style of music I made, because I really wanted to make a living as an artist, and slowly, momentum started growing online over my project (I also met my wife at the same time, good coincidence), and some artists around me gained traction at the same time, and we all kind of became a thing (the 3 other artists gained a ton of fame and traction, massive radio play, millions etc, I personally didnt), but I've made a considerable amount doing what I do, and I'm better off than many struggling artists, it's very humbling, I thank my lucky stars everyday.

I am proof (maybe an anomaly) that you can go from being highly unsuccessful, suicidal, failing massively, to turning things around, have a loving family, kids, a house, a career that I love AND still feel like you're on the brink of bursting out big time even after 6 years of mild success. I've seen many artists topple down in 6 years, and I'm here, still standing, so I feel like I must be doing something right.

Last edited by Deleted 5f4684d; 3rd June 2020 at 08:33 PM..
Old 3rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Head
 

Hellohead...very nice, informative and personal post! But, dude, have you lost your "NY Edge"? And, btw, yes folks, this guy is very much for real.
Old 3rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #95
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gretscher View Post
Hellohead...very nice, informative and personal post! But, dude, have you lost your "NY Edge"? And, btw, yes folks, this guy is very much for real.
Haha NY edge! I've performed in NYC before, love the city so much, it feels like it's alive at all times man, the city that never sleeps. It's only an hour flight from Toronto so not too bad, it's like Vegas to LA!

I've been following the protests (they are not riots, media is bull****) hopefully everyone is staying safe out there. Was tough to see the Santa Monica protests the other day, I'm glad that 4th street recording wasnt looted and that no one was injured, I love that studio, the people there, the owner, engineer, and also, their legendary u67! That mic has some serious mojo.
Old 3rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #96
I think this has become a really enlightening thread.
I'm also in a highly competitive (not music) creative field, tons of people trying to break in and very few jobs or opportunities to make it big. I've made inroads over the last five years and am finally starting to see it pay off. People all around me have broken out big, but even more have fallen away and gone on to more traditional lives. I'm taking the slow and steady approach and finally seeing it start to pay off. The only thing I have observed that the successful people share in common is the fact they never gave up before making it in (and staying in is a constant battle). I've never seen two paths to success play out the same way, or lead to the same place, in scale or longevity. Most people give up when they realize how long and steep the path is. Being young and naive often mitigates that realization, and acquiring responsibilities with age often makes it more difficult to maintain the time and energy.

https://fs.blog/2019/12/survivorship-bias/

I think the survivorship bias plays heavily into how useless it is to take specific advice from well-meaning successful people. We don't ever hear the stories of the failures, and so while it's more important to avoid those missteps than it is to replicate someone else's path (which is impossible really because their culmination of luck and opportunity will always be unique), we don't get that information. Often what it comes down to in making the turn around the corner is luck. Whether that luck comes quickly or takes a lifetime it is always backed up by preparedness, and more often by how we as individuals interact with luck and failure.

Personally, I have torpedoed myself at least twice that I am aware of. It's not to say I would have found success behind those opportunities, but I still managed to blow the opportunity. I had the skill and the material, I just didn't understand how to take advantage of those moments. I didn't understand how to interact with that luck.

I think the kernel of hellohead's advice though is sound. Keep trying, keep failing, and trying again until you don't fail. We all do the best we can with the tools we have at the time. You don't stop learning in life until you're dead, and then... it's not your problem any longer.
Old 3rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #97
Gear Head
 

Yeah, NYC is getting a bit scary. My daughter is a P.A. at a major NYC hospital, and lives in the city, so she's seen the worst of virus/picketing. My buddy owns a building on 12th/Broadway...4 buildings from the end of the block, which is Union Square. The burning/rioting/looting was literally right in front of the building (he lives there as well) he sent me some vid from his rooftop...sickening!
Old 4th June 2020 | Show parent
  #98
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gretscher View Post
Yeah, NYC is getting a bit scary. My daughter is a P.A. at a major NYC hospital, and lives in the city, so she's seen the worst of virus/picketing. My buddy owns a building on 12th/Broadway...4 buildings from the end of the block, which is Union Square. The burning/rioting/looting was literally right in front of the building (he lives there as well) he sent me some vid from his rooftop...sickening!
Ya it's really ****ty, I see that the police blocked the Manhattan bridge last night, they are a bunch of bullies and should be ashamed of their "cop club" mentality, it sickens me. My wife's relative is the head nurse in a Florida hospital and it's been hell with covid. I'm sure your buddy is hoping that his buildings dont get destroyed. Let's hope real change happens this time.

I've actually had to stop talking to a few family members over the covid situation, because they believed 100% that it was a hoax.
Old 7th June 2020 | Show parent
  #99
Quote:
Originally Posted by denstrow View Post
You're right, but unfortunately, it's the economic reality that I'm facing that's keeping me from doing that. Greece was hit hard by a financial crisis that lasted a decade (and another one is round the corner). For the past few years, I've been unable to deal with anything other that basic necessities. A coffee at a friend's house, every now and then, that's about my only fun activity. No going out, no gigs or anything. That's why I only mentioned doing stuff online. It's difficult to be a part of a community this way.
Leave Greece!
Old 16th June 2020
  #100
Gear Maniac
It's easy to whine about marketing, bad music sales and the pay-to-perform gig landscape, but I find invariably that people who raise the issue aren't self-critical enough about their music. I've never seen someone post to GS, Reddit or other music forums asking these questions and then you listen to their music and it's extraordinary or palatable enough to fit in a mainstream playlist. I get the feeling that if you're asking these types of questions, you should take a long hard look at your music and your motivations.

We all want to make music but maybe we don't want to make modern, easily palatable or ear-catching stuff. There's nothing wrong with a regular day job and doing what you enjoy in your spare time. The other alternative is filling a niche market that's unsaturated, which is getting increasingly difficult, or staying ahead of the curve which necessitates a ****load of luck.

I hate to say it but from the harsh critical standpoint that the general public offers, OP's music is dated and unengaging. It's well produced for the most part but you're swamped by millions of soundcloud kids doing the same thing. If you want to keep making underground dance music and open for Astrix or Infected Mushroom, the music better be ****ing extraordinary.

The quickest road to more mass appeal would be to invest in a vocalist, skipping the 90's psytrance and just going for cheeky, edgy club/party music. The production values are there so I don't see it as massively difficult. You might not need to compromise your musical vision that much either.

Max Martin was in a failing hair metal band when he switched gears to pop production. The Die Antwoord guy tried and failed a bunch of different projects before he hit it off with Zef shock-rap. Zedd played hundreds of free gigs throughout Europe, many to empty clubs. That's the kind of environment you have to straddle. It's the freaking wild west.
Old 16th June 2020 | Show parent
  #101
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWestSE View Post
It's easy to whine about marketing, bad music sales and the pay-to-perform gig landscape, but I find invariably that people who raise the issue aren't self-critical enough about their music. I've never seen someone post to GS, Reddit or other music forums asking these questions and then you listen to their music and it's extraordinary or palatable enough to fit in a mainstream playlist. I get the feeling that if you're asking these types of questions, you should take a long hard look at your music and your motivations.

We all want to make music but maybe we don't want to make modern, easily palatable or ear-catching stuff. There's nothing wrong with a regular day job and doing what you enjoy in your spare time. The other alternative is filling a niche market that's unsaturated, which is getting increasingly difficult, or staying ahead of the curve which necessitates a ****load of luck.

I hate to say it but from the harsh critical standpoint that the general public offers, OP's music is dated and unengaging. It's well produced for the most part but you're swamped by millions of soundcloud kids doing the same thing. If you want to keep making underground dance music and open for Astrix or Infected Mushroom, the music better be ****ing extraordinary.

The quickest road to more mass appeal would be to invest in a vocalist, skipping the 90's psytrance and just going for cheeky, edgy club/party music. The production values are there so I don't see it as massively difficult. You might not need to compromise your musical vision that much either.

Max Martin was in a failing hair metal band when he switched gears to pop production. The Die Antwoord guy tried and failed a bunch of different projects before he hit it off with Zef shock-rap. Zedd played hundreds of free gigs throughout Europe, many to empty clubs. That's the kind of environment you have to straddle. It's the freaking wild west.
Yep bang on man. Couldn't have said it better.
Old 18th June 2020
  #102
Lives for gear
 
matskull's Avatar
 

A couple years ago, promoting myself (as an engineer) on social medias seemed like the thing to do so I did it. Got a pretty big following but honestly that didn't really bring any gig in the long term so I got sick of it and stopped, I'm happier now that I don't rely on likes to feel good about myself.

I think if you're into those things good for you but otherwise don't force it, it'll make you miserable.
Old 22nd June 2020 | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
Ken Lewis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
......I can be brash at times but I mean well. I should apologize to Ken Lewis too for coming at him like that out of nowhere, I know they work hard over there at the Kanye/Travis Scott/kid Cudi camp.

I was on this forum 10 years ago as a very young and immature person, and I had a lot of frustrations because i was trying to have a career in music, was failing, and yes, I got banned from here back then (and I deserved it). Took me until I was 27 (and choosing to release under a different artist name) that things started working out for me. It's hard when you feel like the world is against you in that sense, and it's also another reason why this thread struck a chord with me.

I'm definitely a good example of someone who can fail for a long time, readjust and finally find an opening to strive as an artist.

7 years ago, I was living at my parent's home and i had just finished a masters degree, i had 4k in my bank account (from tutoring in college) and decided to buy a used c800g, cleaned my account right up, and my parents were furious and were pushing me to go and find a job (which i should have, and should have moved out to do my own thing). I didn't know anyone in the industry, and I thought that joining this forum would be a good way to possibly get in touch with people and network. And I pissed off Ken Lewis a few times, and he bit back as he should have, and I took it the wrong way, but it was my own wrongdoing.
Thanks Hellohead. I have no idea who you are, but i appreciate the apology since your attacks seemed, i dont know, odd. Thank you. BTW, I've never worked with or met Travis Scott, i have worked with damn near everybody else.

Its a cautionary tale to anyone reading and the ****ty reality of social media in 2020, pros like me would probably love to be on these boards a lot more, contributing, building a sense of community, exchanging knowledge (yes, i learn **** here too) but so many of us show up and get attacked by some anonymous person with some mysterious axe to grind and, you know, we're people too, I don't tend to hang around hostile places in real life or on forums. And true to form, your last attacks were the last time i was on GS that i remember. I only came back tonight cause someone sent me a link to this. Gearslutz could be an AWESOME place for community, and i'm sure parts of it genuinely are. I used to really love it here.

Anyway, i didn't mean to or want to highjack this thread, just wanted to acknowledge it and say thanks.

and to the OP, i feel you bro on promotion, but it doesn't sound like you make mainstream music, so traditional promotional methods might not be effective. And trust me, I've had a ton of success in the indie world with artists, typically as an indie you need to be GREAT to do real numbers AND have a team behind you of some sort. There's just so much noise out there to break thru. HOWEVER, i think if i was you, i would start a livestream concert during the pandemic, and perform nightly for 15 or 20 minutes every night at the same time, and put a little promotion into it, spend $10 a day on promo and see if you can bring some eyeballs to your performance, find a unique and highly interesting spin on how to present yourself and your performance SO YOU STAND OUT!!!!!!
stream on IGTV or facebook live or youtube live or?? I stream to youtube live. Maybe try to get on a REDDIT Sessions broadcast. Start small, be consistent, see if anyone pays attention, maybe yes maybe no, but you'll enjoy playing regardless and someone out there, hopefully a bunch of people, will hear and connect with your work in a meaningful way. best of luck
Old 22nd June 2020 | Show parent
  #104
Deleted 5f4684d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Lewis View Post
Thanks Hellohead. I have no idea who you are, but i appreciate the apology since your attacks seemed, i dont know, odd. Thank you. BTW, I've never worked with or met Travis Scott, i have worked with damn near everybody else.
Yeah man really sorry about that, I'm really ashamed about it tbh. And about your idea to livestream everyday on sites is bang on, that's what I've been doing lately since we're all still stuck at home.
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