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Is trying to promote yourself on social media a waste of time?
Old 19th May 2020
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gretscher View Post
A few days ago I was told, by a friend @ a Major Label, that TIK TOK is HUGE for A&R guys...particularly in the POP genre.
I've read this a number of times, as well.

Makes sense that label A&R guys would prefer something that limits content creators to "short music and lip-sync videos of 3 to 15 seconds"... Deep thinkers, they are.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok

Here's probably one reason people in the industry have noticed Tik Tok:

"Since May 2020, Kevin Mayer is CEO of TikTok and COO of parent company, ByteDance. Previously he was chairman of the Walt Disney Direct-to-Consumer & International." [emphasis added]

LA Times, via MSN: Disney's streaming chair Kevin Mayer leaves to run TikTok

The industry loves a 'winner.'
Old 19th May 2020
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gretscher View Post
A few days ago I was told, by a friend @ a Major Label, that TIK TOK is HUGE for A&R guys...particularly in the POP genre.
Yep, that's where I get a lot of traction on some of my songs. I've had my songs used on Tik tok videos and also a video that 9gag posted which had my song (it got 10 mil views in 1 day, lots of shazams) , and also big time endorsement that helped by big radio people. Every little bit helps.

Another thing to know now is, any new song with a drop is not hot anymore, with a few small exceptions.

Tik tok has replaced vines for pop and hip hop. Tik tok is a thing because it started very small and grew with word to mouth and discovering, much like a lot of apps. If you start trying to be big right away, you fail (quibi for example). I'd be surprised if quibi actually takes off, they're already putting so much ad money just to gain subscribers (people dont want 1 more sub service), and frankly they're putting way more money than they are making at the moment.

The only way to break an act nowadays is to see which artist is going viral independently, and then it becomes a bidding war with multiple labels.
Old 20th May 2020
  #33
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raggedman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
You seem to be out of touch with modern music, so I can understand your frustration. The world changes and the things we love become relics of a bygone era. It happens to us all.

The best thing to do is to step aside and let the younger generation have their turn at the wheel. The best thing to do is to show the younger people that you are humble enough to pass the torch without being jealous.
Jealous?....as if...I look upon you with pity.
Old 20th May 2020
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I know plenty of small PR companies but not in your part of the world..the closest I can get is Love by Mistake who are based in Berlin.

“A couple of thousand” is very dependent on what currency you’re talking about. Put a thousand dollars (which is more like 5-700eu) into promo and you’ll see a decent enough return - if the music is good.
Love by mistake is really good with PR, I've made about 10 times more money on a song with them doing PR, but the song was also good too which helped a lot. Good blog PR is about 1k to 2k usd these days.
Old 20th May 2020
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post
So doing the thing is no longer a thing then, is it?

Suppose that explains why I can't find anything I'd wanna listen to...

I'm sorry, GOOD music isn't made by one person alone in a room using a pc to take up the slack. I honestly dont even understand how or why anyone would want to do that, it is mind numbingly boring and tedious...how could the result be anything else?

I dont care how much time you spend promoting it, it will pretty much always be a snoozefest. Kravitz can't even pull it off.
I'm 1 person here making music, and my ****ty 1 man show has helped me and my wife buy a comfortable house for us and our kids, we paid our school debts and I still have a ton of money left, so maybe it's frowned upon by you to be a laptop producer, but I get to do what I love, make a lot of money and live a chill life. The group of people is not the issue here, the lack of good ideas is.

I can do on my own what a team of people can do, and frankly, I'm so proud I can do that, and that I'm a good example to my kids that you can do it without relying on a team of 20 people.

If you mean infrastructure? Ya I agree, I need my manager, assistant, lawyers, promo team on the label side and everyone on the pub side. But the music? I dont need anyone for that, and yes I do work with various musicians on various songs. Basically, if I need 10 people to make a song or just me, I'll roll with what I'm being given, I dont have a template or a "acceptable" way to do it. Listeners dont care how it's made, they just want to enjoy the music. The end result is always more important than the process, especially since the process changes from song to song.

I remember being in sessions where I was made fun of, i was pushed aside, women were verbally abused, but hey, i was still the guy who made the music, I put a few vocal ideas, made a guitar riff, and the song was good, so I decided to finish it and it did well. The process doesnt matter to me, I only care if the end result is great.

I get it if you're salty because I made a mil this year making music on a laptop, and I'll take it any year if you think I'm a hack, because I like pissing off people based off of what their music making standards are
Old 21st May 2020
  #36
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raggedman's Avatar
 

I'm glad you're making money.
But that doesn't mean anything in regards to the product quality...I'd bet its homogenized and sounds pretty similar to the rest of the stuff being squeezed out of the digital toothpaste tube.
One man music is boring...its boring to make, and it's boring to listen to...I get why one would attempt it, but unless you're Prince it's just gonna fall short somewhere

I understand All the positive aspects of keeping all the profit and no arguments and yadda yadda...but none of those equal "the music is better for it"

Last edited by raggedman; 21st May 2020 at 12:42 AM..
Old 21st May 2020
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post
I'm glad you're making money.
But that doesn't mean anything in regards to the product quality...I'd bet its homogenized and sounds pretty similar to the rest of the stuff being squeezed out of the digital toothpaste tube.
One man music is boring...its boring to make, and it's boring to listen to...I get why one would attempt it, but unless you're Prince it's just gonna fall short somewhere

I understand All the positive aspects of keeping all the profit and no arguments and yadda yadda...but none of those equal "the music is better for it"
Way to make assumptions about the music I make, music you've never even listened to. You sound like a real dick.

And you're in this thread to give some advice about your successful music career and how to put yourself out there? Please, tell us your tips, we're all ears.
Old 21st May 2020
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
I'm 1 person here making music, and my ****ty 1 man show has helped me and my wife buy a comfortable house for us and our kids, we paid our school debts and I still have a ton of money left, so maybe it's frowned upon by you to be a laptop producer, but I get to do what I love, make a lot of money and live a chill life. The group of people is not the issue here, the lack of good ideas is.

I can do on my own what a team of people can do, and frankly, I'm so proud I can do that, and that I'm a good example to my kids that you can do it without relying on a team of 20 people.

If you mean infrastructure? Ya I agree, I need my manager, assistant, lawyers, promo team on the label side and everyone on the pub side. But the music? I dont need anyone for that, and yes I do work with various musicians on various songs. Basically, if I need 10 people to make a song or just me, I'll roll with what I'm being given, I dont have a template or a "acceptable" way to do it. Listeners dont care how it's made, they just want to enjoy the music. The end result is always more important than the process, especially since the process changes from song to song.

I remember being in sessions where I was made fun of, i was pushed aside, women were verbally abused, but hey, i was still the guy who made the music, I put a few vocal ideas, made a guitar riff, and the song was good, so I decided to finish it and it did well. The process doesnt matter to me, I only care if the end result is great.

I get it if you're salty because I made a mil this year making music on a laptop, and I'll take it any year if you think I'm a hack, because I like pissing off people based off of what their music making standards are

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
Way to make assumptions about the music I make, music you've never even listened to. You sound like a real dick.

And you're in this thread to give some advice about your successful music career and how to put yourself out there? Please, tell us your tips, we're all ears.
I wouldn't worry about him he's got more chips on his shoulder than all the fast food restaurants worldwide put together!

You're never going to convince someone in a narrow, slow lane that there's a world outside their window. They'd rather martyr themselves and have something to blame for a lack of success.
Old 21st May 2020
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I wouldn't worry about him he's got more chips on his shoulder than all the fast food restaurants worldwide put together!

You're never going to convince someone in a narrow, slow lane that there's a world outside their window. They'd rather martyr themselves and have something to blame for a lack of success.
Martyr is the right word, I agree.
Old 21st May 2020
  #40
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by denstrow View Post
So, I've pretty much tried everything I can think of in terms of promoting my music.

Posting of forums, social media, groups? Check.
Paying for Facebook ads etc? Check.
Building a website, using other services like Soundcloud Pro etc? Check.

And yet, over several years, pretty much nothing.

Is there any reason to keep wasting my time like this?

Labels - the ones who are able to provide promotion, networking etc - seem to need a solid fan base.

The audience doesn't really care about you, unless you're already (even a relatively small) somebody.

So why bother with all that? I'm not saying stop making music - the need for that is deeper than having an audience, sure, and I've spent more or less 20 years before getting to a point where I feel comfortable to share my music anyway - I'm used to it.

But we are, after all, social beings. It's not about craving attention, but sharing something and *connecting* with others. If you can't, what's the point? Even money isn't much of an issue - I work as a classical musician, so I have at least a small income. I'm giving away my music for free now, and would gladly do some gigs just for the fun of it.

Would I be in any different position if I just put the music out there and close all Facebook, Instagram etc which I hate? I guess that's my question.

Sure, you can say "Go out and socialise, go to gigs, talk to promoters, artists" etc - but the truth is, after 10 years of a financial crisis that decimated my country, and the next one right around the corner, I simply can't afford that, and that's been my reality for some time now.

Anyway, just venting...

/rant
Your music is sick AF but its not in style yet. There's KINDA some indication that its coming into style with acts like perturbator coming into youtube algos. My suggestion is get on youtube and other streams, that's exactly where I found this scene previously.
Old 21st May 2020
  #41
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Great thread, with a lot of home truths about today's music 'industry' such as it is.

However, I think the wider problem is more fundamental than any of these valid commercial considerations because the reality nowadays is that people aren't listening to music anymore!

That's a sweeping generalisation, which I am generally (see what I did there) allergic to, so let me qualify what I'm saying.

Of course we've got the tweeny-bopper market which is huge and lucrative and dependent on a whole bunch of factors that have nothing to do with music per se.

Then there's folks like us on these kinds of Forums who have a genuine and passionate interest in music - listening to it, how it's produced, sharing it recording it.

And finally there's the large but dwindling high-end classical music market - mostly retired folks with deep pockets who go to the opera and own large, expensive Hi-Fi systems.

The problem is the 20-45 market, which used to be a huge driver of the industry and is no longer. Folks in this consumer bracket are not going round to each other's houses and discussing their Spotify playlists, in the same way that the generation before would do with that now wholly out-dated concept... albums. That means there is zero revenue generating momentum from word of mouth, peer group etc in this huge demographic.

These folks - or at least the dedicated ones - are going to Festivals; that is where they get there annual musical 'fix' and gives them enough to talk about with their friends for the following year until the next round of festivals.

But in their hugely pressured household budgets (and a brief survey of property prices in the last 30 years will show the key to this) there is no room for actually buying music, and less time to really listen to it anyway (how many times per hour does the average 30-year old get a notification on their phone that requires action?), so thus music becomes a sort of low-level background thing. Like traffic noise. And no one's going to buy traffic noise. Or talk excitedly with their friends about newly released traffic noise.

Summary: the elephant in the room is the size of the music-buying market; it's a tiny fraction of what it was 40 years ago.
Old 21st May 2020
  #42
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raggedman's Avatar
 

I'm glad you're getting paid to masturbate. more power to you.
There are lots of webcam chicks out there getting paid to masturbate as well.
Are they artists?

Please show me the huge hit world renowned record made by one person.
Written, arranged, performed, produced, engineered, tracked, overdubbed, edited, mixed, mastered, art laid out...etc etc....show me the record with one name and one name only in the credits.

The original question was "is promoting music on social media a waste of time?" I say yes, if you're sitting alone in a room making one man music...we just really dont need anymore of that crap.....and when the fk would you have time, anyway?...totally on topic.

Your music is selling (somewhere, according to you...I'll accept this as fact even though the source is dubious.) Therefore it must be similar to other music that is selling, as if it were too far outside that norm it would not be selling. The music that is selling has been consistently ****e over the last decade. It is therefore easily deduced that your music conforms to current norms...QED

And what kind of deluded narcissist honestly believes that something they banged out all by themselves in a dillitante way is superior to what it would be were it produced by a group of individuals with specialized skills in specific areas, each focused on one or two aspects of the project?

Easier does not equal better

Last edited by raggedman; 21st May 2020 at 12:18 PM..
Old 21st May 2020
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post

And what kind of deluded narcissist honestly believes that something they banged out all by themselves in a dillitante way is superior to what it would be were it produced by a group of individuals with specialized skills in specific areas, each focused on one or two aspects of the project?
narcissists like me! leaving my 'band' was the best thing I've ever done, I've been successful since doing that, instead of being held back by idiotic singers who think they're the boss but have no formal training, no degree, no knowledge of music theory, being in a band is very over rated, everybody has to feel comfortable, free and equal for it to work properly, I got sick of dictators telling me what or what not I should be playing according to their tastes, as well as underqualified poor musicians with no money telling me that we need to play for free.
Old 21st May 2020
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post
I'm glad you're getting paid to masturbate. more power to you.
There are lots of webcam chicks out there getting paid to masturbate as well.
Are they artists?
Bit of a left field comparison that...also nothing like relevant.

Arguably Led Zep, the grateful dead, The Doors, Zappa were a group masturbation session..it's just others liked to watch. It's not really any different to a solo artist is it? What about Prince?

Quote:
Please show me the huge hit world renowned record made by one person.
Written, arranged, performed, produced, engineered, tracked, overdubbed, edited, mixed, mastered, art laid out...etc etc....show me the record with one name and one name only in the credits.
No-one actually said any of that. You're claiming music only counts if it's played by a group of people. I think we'd all agree that teamwork is necessary for success. The idea one person can produce music on their own doesn't refute that.

FWIW much music that is popular now is made by one or maybe two people. Much EDM is played, produced, recorded and mixed by the same person. Pop still has specialist mixers and sometimes recordists...but hey, plenty of one man produce/record/mix specialists in "the glory days".

Quote:
The original question was "is promoting music on social media a waste of time?" I say yes, if you're sitting alone in a room making one man music...we just really dont need anymore of that crap.....and when the fk would you have time, anyway?...totally on topic.
Well, arguably that's the same if you're in a band playing to 10 people at the local pub. We don't really NEED more of that crap either. The problem is you're assigning more value to the pub band than to the one man bedroom producer.

Quote:
Your music is selling (somewhere, according to you...I'll accept this as fact even though the source is dubious.)
Turns out I'm very good friends with his former publicist, so I can vouch for that too.

Quote:
Therefore it must be similar to other music that is selling, as if it were too far outside that norm it would not be selling. The music that is selling has been consistently ****e over the last decade. It is therefore easily deduced that your music conforms to current norms...QED
Again - value judgement that's really personal. Kids who like Bieber and Billie Eilish probably would say your fave music is "boring". Or pop music of your day was rubbish or something. They're entitled to their opinions too! That's the beauty of art..

Quote:
And what kind of deluded narcissist honestly believes that something they banged out all by themselves in a dillitante way is superior to what it would be were it produced by a group of individuals with specialized skills in specific areas, each focused on one or two aspects of the project?
Tell that to Zappa or Prince or Stevie? Bon Iver or Tame Impala? Or Mutt Lange or someone....The thing is, if someone is trying to make a band sound by themselves...yep, you have to be exceptional in many kind of unrelated areas for it to be comparable.

But computer based production...too many people is often detrimental. One guy with featured vocalists, or maybe two is often plenty. And as I said, no-one is suggesting you do the mastering/promo/management/artwork as a one man thing, unless you have to.

Quote:
Easier does not equal better
raggedman meet straw man...no one said it was.
Old 21st May 2020
  #45
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post
I'm glad you're getting paid to masturbate. more power to you.
There are lots of webcam chicks out there getting paid to masturbate as well.
Are they artists?

Please show me the huge hit world renowned record made by one person.
Written, arranged, performed, produced, engineered, tracked, overdubbed, edited, mixed, mastered, art laid out...etc etc....show me the record with one name and one name only in the credits.

The original question was "is promoting music on social media a waste of time?" I say yes, if you're sitting alone in a room making one man music...we just really dont need anymore of that crap.....and when the fk would you have time, anyway?...totally on topic.

Your music is selling (somewhere, according to you...I'll accept this as fact even though the source is dubious.) Therefore it must be similar to other music that is selling, as if it were too far outside that norm it would not be selling. The music that is selling has been consistently ****e over the last decade. It is therefore easily deduced that your music conforms to current norms...QED

And what kind of deluded narcissist honestly believes that something they banged out all by themselves in a dillitante way is superior to what it would be were it produced by a group of individuals with specialized skills in specific areas, each focused on one or two aspects of the project?

Easier does not equal better
I love a lot of electronica, retrowave, and modern metal. A lot of what's coming out of those genres are one man acts. Lana Del Rey is another act I love that often has a single writer. It's true that she's the performer, not the writer, but none the less, the music can be written by a single person...

I think your notion that we all have to fall in line to the exact bounds of whatever the last huge hit left behind is misguided and chokes creativity. There's something to be said about the focused art that comes from solo artists.

Of course, the brainstorming that comes from a focused group can be killer as well, but it's rarer.
Old 21st May 2020
  #46
Gear Head
 

Geez. Can we agree that if a song sounds good to you, then its just good regardless of who/why/where it was written? Whether it be one person on a computer, or with an instrument in hand, or a group of Nashville songwriters having a scheduled writing session....if the end result works for you so be it. I'm sure we've all heard good/bad from every possible scenario.
Old 21st May 2020
  #47
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post
I'm glad you're getting paid to masturbate. more power to you.
There are lots of webcam chicks out there getting paid to masturbate as well.
Are they artists?

Please show me the huge hit world renowned record made by one person.
Written, arranged, performed, produced, engineered, tracked, overdubbed, edited, mixed, mastered, art laid out...etc etc....show me the record with one name and one name only in the credits.

The original question was "is promoting music on social media a waste of time?" I say yes, if you're sitting alone in a room making one man music...we just really dont need anymore of that crap.....and when the fk would you have time, anyway?...totally on topic.

Your music is selling (somewhere, according to you...I'll accept this as fact even though the source is dubious.) Therefore it must be similar to other music that is selling, as if it were too far outside that norm it would not be selling. The music that is selling has been consistently ****e over the last decade. It is therefore easily deduced that your music conforms to current norms...QED

And what kind of deluded narcissist honestly believes that something they banged out all by themselves in a dillitante way is superior to what it would be were it produced by a group of individuals with specialized skills in specific areas, each focused on one or two aspects of the project?

Easier does not equal better
You're asking who has been a 1 man band, well almost all of my work has been me, from start to finish, writing, recording, singing, mixing, mastering. Out of 450 mil streams, 300 mil has been me on my own. Is it rare? Ya most definitely. But I'm doing it right now, and a song coming out tomorrow, again I made it from start to finish.

Put that narcissist label on me, that's ok. If I can release high quality songs and do it on my own, and the fans are loving it, no harm no foul. I tried sending a new song to someone to get my vocals edited, and I had to go and do it in the end, because people don't always have the vision of the artist.

I dont do that because I want all the revenue or anything. I realized as soon as I Ieft the bands I was in, that when you arent bogged down by many people (analysis paralysis) when doing creative work, you can do music more clearly, faster, and more defined. I've fought with my label so much on what I wanted to release, and everytime I pushed to release a song and it did well, I've proved them wrong again and again (I'm forcing on the label the song being released tomorrow, the song was finished 4 years ago, and it'll do well, I know the market well. I make all my artwork btw.

I know my project more than anyone else would, and I know how it should sound and where it's headed. My contract expires soon, I'll get paid the remaining advance money and be free, and release a song a week after that. I couldnt do that with a team of 6 people creating, unless you're really in tune with each other.

Frequency of releases, remixes of those releases, and quality of the releases themselves is why people will want to come back and relisten, not because a label is pushing it or because it has a ton of PR money. People can see through that, they want the thrill of the discovery. I get respect in the industry because people know that what I release won't suck. It took me 6 years to foster those relationships, with youtube channels, Spotify, Apple Music, Sirius Xm as well as more popular artists than me. What I'm saying is, I can't teach people how to make good songs, or what works now etc.

If you have vision and you're honest about your intentions, people will gravitate to that, and other artists will want to make music with you and get featured, or want a remix from you if you do dance music or Rap. I think it's hard to teach people to have vision with their work, their music or their lives, that's why you get 10 people steering the ship a lot of times. My time to breakout as a huge act has passed, I'm in my early 30s and I have a family etc, I have responsibilities basically. That being said, I'm very very determined as an artist and I'll keep on releasing music that I feel is relevant not 2 years ago, but right now.

Something that's also important to understand is that I went to College for a long time in my 20s, I have a Masters degree, and everything I learned in school, I applied it to my music career.

The studying of music out there, learning how to make good productions, looking at tutorials, subscribing to the Masterclass, reading books on songwriting, studying what's hitting now etc. I get that most people dont have that research aspect when it comes to music, but it works for me and that's why I have success.

You start emulating music you listen to, you fail, and that's where your music journey takes off. Music making to me is a bunch of failed experiments, happy mistakes. Failure is part of the journey, and then you find a few ideas that hit a chord in yourself, and you just know that others will feel that same feeling, because it's the human aspect within the music.

If you want to talk stats (I dont focus on that, but I'm aware), 1 mil streams on Spotify amounts to roughly 3500 usd per 1 mil streams, Apple music is more. If you can release 20 tracks a year with a mil streams each, that's 70k right there off of just 1 platform. Some might perform less but others might get 5-6-7 mil, and if you release more than that, you can make even more. Then you got soundexchange, ascap/bmi, remix money, show money, merch money, advance money if you make deals, licensing, insta promotions if you swing that way. If you have your ducks in a row, you can hit 300k a year, and if you're outperforming, you can get 600k, 700k for the year, you incorporate, pay less tax that way, put yourself on payroll and pay yourself to pay for your basic needs, so it's easy to keep a lot of it, that's how the rich get richer. My publisher pays for any trip I do. So yeah it's important to know the numbers too. Any new release will boost numbers on the former songs if you release consistantly. You also build a fanbase that way, all this is the youtuber way btw, you release something cool once a day and people build a relationship with the fans, and you're cashing in as a result. releasing consistent quality material is where people usually fail at.

Last edited by hellohead; 21st May 2020 at 04:11 PM..
Old 21st May 2020
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gretscher View Post
Geez. Can we agree that if a song sounds good to you, then its just good regardless of who/why/where it was written? Whether it be one person on a computer, or with an instrument in hand, or a group of Nashville songwriters having a scheduled writing session....if the end result works for you so be it. I'm sure we've all heard good/bad from every possible scenario.
Yes! Exactly.
Old 21st May 2020
  #49
Bear in mind, that "success" for some people (like me) is different than what others might consider it.

I wouldn't dream of millions of streams with the music I make - but hundreds or a few thousand per track? That should be doable, and more like some of the artists I like.

Sure, it may not be the same, but you still have an audience, albeit small. That's how I see it. If your music has mass appeal and you can make money out of it, all the better for you!

Also, the idea that only bands can put out something worthwhile, that's nonsense. There's plenty of bands that suck as there are one-man acts that do too. And then there's composers whose music can live on centuries later...
Old 21st May 2020
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denstrow View Post
Bear in mind, that "success" for some people (like me) is different than what others might consider it.

I wouldn't dream of millions of streams with the music I make - but hundreds or a few thousand per track? That should be doable, and more like some of the artists I like.

Sure, it may not be the same, but you still have an audience, albeit small. That's how I see it. If your music has mass appeal and you can make money out of it, all the better for you!

Also, the idea that only bands can put out something worthwhile, that's nonsense. There's plenty of bands that suck as there are one-man acts that do too. And then there's composers whose music can live on centuries later...
Just want to shime in on streams and making hundreds or thousands a track since my last post was long.

Spotify pays 3500 usd per 1 mil streams, so if you can find an audience and get 1k usd a track or 300k streams a track, that's a pretty good start. I do think you may need to revamp by starting fresh and getting a new project going, with consistency in music and image, it will help PR as well as listeners.
Old 21st May 2020
  #51
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Is trying to promote yourself on social media a waste of time?

Some people are very good at making music, and very bad at promoting themselves.

Some folks aren't all that good at making music, but they're damn good at promoting themselves.

This has always been the case.

It really doesn't matter about the "social media" element here:

The bottom line is that you may be very good at making music, and suck at promotion.

If this is true for you, then get somebody who's good at promotion (and let THEM worry about what kinda media to use).
Old 21st May 2020
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Some people are very good at making music, and very bad at promoting themselves.

Some folks aren't all that good at making music, but they're damn good at promoting themselves.

This has always been the case.

It really doesn't matter about the "social media" element here:

The bottom line is that you may be very good at making music, and suck at promotion.

If this is true for you, then get somebody who's good at promotion (and let THEM worry about what kinda media to use).
It's clear to me that his music is not current and therefore PR wont help. Gotta learn how to make contemporary music before attempting to promote yourself is my opinion.
Old 21st May 2020
  #53
Gear Head
 

New music/old music debate; might depend on where you are looking regarding placements. I've heard both used for TV commercials as well as film. Indie films often use "older" sounds as well esoteric music that might have difficulty finding a home elsewhere. Most music libraries I've encountered had almost zero use for anything "trad" sounding. So, judging by my experience, I would say that to be current (or have that ability along with whatever else you do) might be the best policy (for placements) unless you are an "artist" carving out a career based on your own style.
Regardless, the "meat" of popular music is still found, since the 50's, within the family of Diatonic chords...being creative within those sounds is where the art comes in.
Just my opinion.....respect to all here.
Hey, Hellohead, do you do your own mastering as well?
Old 22nd May 2020
  #54
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
@ denstrow If you are not making videos of you doing music, you do not matter.
Yet your sig is a Soundcloud link.
Old 22nd May 2020
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Yet your sig is a Soundcloud link.
So what?
Old 22nd May 2020
  #56
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gretscher View Post
New music/old music debate; might depend on where you are looking regarding placements. I've heard both used for TV commercials as well as film. Indie films often use "older" sounds as well esoteric music that might have difficulty finding a home elsewhere. Most music libraries I've encountered had almost zero use for anything "trad" sounding. So, judging by my experience, I would say that to be current (or have that ability along with whatever else you do) might be the best policy (for placements) unless you are an "artist" carving out a career based on your own style.
Regardless, the "meat" of popular music is still found, since the 50's, within the family of Diatonic chords...being creative within those sounds is where the art comes in.
Just my opinion.....respect to all here.
Hey, Hellohead, do you do your own mastering as well?
New here and after reading through most of this thread, definitely wanted to touch on this real quick. If you're making 'older music' (i really tried to read through some of that dialogue but my attention span failed me so idk if we're like talking 'wu-tang' kinda old or "I'm dropping a harpsichord mixtape" type vibes), there's damn near a market for anything and everything you really just have to put the effort into tapping into it.

To this end—a few brilliant minds put Yeezus into an orchestra "Yeethoven" [and the guy who did that has a classical music background and is doing wonderful things in the mainstream world with traditional composition methods] and some guy got famous on Apple music for making a track of utter silence (so that way when you started up your iPhone, you wouldn't here Ed Sheeran's "A-team" every damn time you started driving).

You can find a niche for a lot of things.
Old 22nd May 2020
  #57
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by denstrow View Post
So, I've pretty much tried everything I can think of in terms of promoting my music.

Posting of forums, social media, groups? Check.
Paying for Facebook ads etc? Check.
Building a website, using other services like Soundcloud Pro etc? Check.

And yet, over several years, pretty much nothing.

Is there any reason to keep wasting my time like this?

Labels - the ones who are able to provide promotion, networking etc - seem to need a solid fan base.

The audience doesn't really care about you, unless you're already (even a relatively small) somebody.

So why bother with all that? I'm not saying stop making music - the need for that is deeper than having an audience, sure, and I've spent more or less 20 years before getting to a point where I feel comfortable to share my music anyway - I'm used to it.

But we are, after all, social beings. It's not about craving attention, but sharing something and *connecting* with others. If you can't, what's the point? Even money isn't much of an issue - I work as a classical musician, so I have at least a small income. I'm giving away my music for free now, and would gladly do some gigs just for the fun of it.

Would I be in any different position if I just put the music out there and close all Facebook, Instagram etc which I hate? I guess that's my question.

Sure, you can say "Go out and socialise, go to gigs, talk to promoters, artists" etc - but the truth is, after 10 years of a financial crisis that decimated my country, and the next one right around the corner, I simply can't afford that, and that's been my reality for some time now.

Anyway, just venting...

/rant
So I don't make classical music by any stretch of the imagination OP, but I grew up playing piano from age 5—I now make more 'modern' sounding trap/RnB/songwriter inspired music which I'm glad to see has been so widely... welcomed in this conversation—but I'd honestly say that it is worth it to promote your music, regardless of genre or how contemporary it may be. I haven't even dropped a song of my own yet and I struggle with the same thoughts you've been having.

I think you should scale back your approach a little bit, if I'm being frank, and that may sound crazy but hear me out.

Everything comes down to a bunch of small steps or benchmarks, and from what I've read, you're focused on the numbers without having a way to build up to them. It's hard to get 1000 listens if you can't name more than 10 people who want to hear your work, and advertisements are just glorified digital billboards that kind of eyeball a possible demographic. For all you know, your Facebook ad could be lighting up my grandma's web browser and I *promise* you that she will NOT click it because she has ZERO clue how technology works (she still loves a good old typewriter).

Before all of the ads and the promo comes a human element to your music and the creation of that story/character/person that listeners can connect to, and while I can't offer advice for this in classical music because it's not my field, I can tell you that you have to offer something else besides *just* good music to build a fanbase and part of that is by putting a human touch to sharing your work.

Sounds like you've got the part that some people never figure out—making something they love to hear—but I'm not gonna click on a Facebook ad about a guy I don't know who just happens to make the same genre of music that I enjoy. If that guy messages me and connects with me (not through some pre-programmed DM), it opens the door for me to go "**** I might as well give it a chance".
Old 22nd May 2020
  #58
Earlier, I deleted a long ramble I'd written trying to address this business of being an artist making music outside the bounds of contemporary commerciality.

An earlier poster had suggested something to the effect that he just wanted to make music he would want to hear.

That's pretty much where I am at this point.

But, happily, I find myself -- finally -- in an era when the 'machinery of production' is in reach (literally, actually, as I sit here) and where there are channels of informal and formal distribution by which I can get that music into the hands of others.

Does that guarantee I can earn a living from that music? Hardly.

Anyone who has worked in the business outside the studio -- even as an informal self-promoter -- surely understands there are no real guarantees in the music marketplace -- and never were. I know from long experience that almost nothing gets sold without a certain amount of marketing, and usually that requires a dedicated, disciplined, ongoing effort to engage with one's established fans as well as to intrigue and engage new fans.

BUT... none of that stops me from making the music I want to make. And, even if I get a burr under my saddle and decide I really need to get some cellos in here under my chamber folk, that can be arranged by anything from calling in favors to trading recording for performance or -- gasp -- breaking down and giving a trained professional a few bucks for their efforts. (I am a cheapskate. But, you know, I take my car to a mechanic. These expenses can be justified.)


PS... I was just skimming Evan's post above -- he's got some good points. His reference to personality/character and story/narrative in music marketing is not just a reflection of current marketing tropes -- it derives from actual insight into how and why people connect with music and the people who make it. Whether you call it a 'narrative' or a 'marketing hook,' people like to hear a good story and often that story can help them feel a great affinity and 'understanding' of a given artist and his music.
Old 22nd May 2020
  #59
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gretscher View Post
Hey, Hellohead, do you do your own mastering as well?
Ya I do, I have my mastering chain in Sequoia that I have as my template then go from there. Then I AB with wav files of a few records that I like sonically and match what I'm hearing.

My mastering chain:

Sonoris Compressor or SPL Iron vst (-2 to 3db gain)
Equilibrium (high pass at 30hz or sometimes more if I added too much bass, notch a bit at 350hz and add a bit of mids and highs)
Izotope Exciter (I use it in retro mode)
Spectre (sometimes, to add more bass and highs)
Izotope Maximizer in either transient mode or the balanced/crispy mode
Sonoris dither (very important to me, except it does add 3 seconds silence at the end, which I usually remove after and render again with nothing on the chain)

If your mix is well balanced, mastering is fairly straightforward I find. Usually problems arise with too much bass, not de essing the vocals enough as highs are added, kick being too upfront or the bassline not notched enough, the Weiss DA is great at pointing those problem areas with a good sub that's calibrated to be just a bit there with the dynaudio monitors.
Old 22nd May 2020
  #60
Gear Head
 

Hellohead, thanks so much for the detailed reply! IMO, from a financial standpoint (as well turnaround time) the best case scenario is being able to do everything "in house" these days. Very cool to have the talent for it!
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