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Cloning HW Synths vs cloning other hardware
Old 6 days ago
  #151
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
Do you have any proof that this is the case with B products?
Or are you just trolling?
He wasn’t saying that’s what Behringer do and he wasn’t just trolling.
Old 6 days ago
  #152
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
No, I can’t say I do, but that’s not the topic of this discussion, I.e., why are synth clones frowned upon but clones in other HW are not.
Well, you've asked me and I've explained. Why do you believe that clones in other HW aren't frowned?
Old 6 days ago
  #153
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A good comparison is the effects pedal world. Millions of pedals in slightly different cases with similar or exactly the same circuits. Everything from budget to boutique. The originals are often somewhere in the middle.


If Uli can sell a Model D for $700 then it costs what $200 to make for him?

I have no doubt that Moog could make and sell a Model D for $1750ish even including $11/hr assembler wages.
Old 6 days ago
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoia View Post
Well, you've asked me and I've explained. Why do you believe that clones in other HW aren't frowned?
Honestly, having read and digested, I’m more confused to that answer now than before I asked!
Old 6 days ago
  #155
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Yey! Another one of my threads ends up in The Moan Zone.
Old 6 days ago
  #156
I have no problems with these clones morally and certainly not legally since its almost all stuff from the 70's.

Its great Korg and Moog did reissues. That someone else would do them too, well, maybe they shouldn't have waited so long. And they sold out instantly anyways .. the D and the Korg MS20 special kits I mean.
Old 6 days ago
  #157
Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
Yey! Another one of my threads ends up in The Moan Zone.
I think thats the end game for folks like paranoia, whine in every behringer thread until it gets moved. Shame no ones wised up to it yet.
Old 6 days ago
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
I think thats the end game for folks like paranoia, whine in every behringer thread until it gets moved. Shame no ones wised up to it yet.
I didn’t think this thread was going too badly either. Lots of good opinions and perspectives I hadn’t thought of - such as ethics of workers. Not anything I ever think of when buying electronic goods, if I’m honest. Certainly not anything I research between different companies when looking at gear. But, if it affects some people’s opinions then I can understand that - providing of course they’ve researched everything else that they own from an ethics POV. I think if I were to start doing that I’d have to become a monk!
Old 6 days ago
  #159
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Muser's Avatar
Trumpeters of social Darwinism tend to question the logic of such beliefs as soon any new super predator begins to appear in the rear view mirror. it quickly becomes a principle for which few are then willing to die for. in this case, the threat probably comes from a disjunction in scale, productivity and technique. between old modes of production and new modes.

Old 6 days ago
  #160
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
Five Guys what else
I’m pissed they closed the one near me. Good burgers. We keep going to Habit because my wife got a ****load of free burger coupons from one of their employees. Decent, but my favorite is Super-Duper if you’re near one.
Old 6 days ago
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I’m pissed they closed the one near me. Good burgers. We keep going to Habit because my wife got a ****load of free burger coupons from one of their employees. Decent, but my favorite is Super-Duper if you’re near one.
In Switzerland, there are two new ones, and that at the other end of the country
would have to travel 200 km. But I think soon there will be one in Zuerich too
Old 6 days ago
  #162
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
Yey! Another one of my threads ends up in The Moan Zone.
It’s like my sister who got eaten by a snake and now spends eternity as a ghost, complaining about it in a bathroom.
Old 6 days ago
  #163
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Rezisehtnys's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
It’s like my sister who got eaten by a snake and now spends eternity as a ghost, complaining about it in a bathroom.
Your sister is Moaning Myrtle? You poor soul.
Old 6 days ago
  #164
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Derp's Avatar
Guys guys guys...

We should have a politic subforum again. It worked out so well last time!
Old 6 days ago
  #165
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezisehtnys View Post
Your sister is Moaning Myrtle? You poor soul.
Nah, she’s cool.
Old 6 days ago
  #166
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Subverter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Uuugh. You don't understand the market and taxation outside the USA.
The original statement made by blewis_13 was that it was claimed the Model D reissue sold for $4000.
It was then stated by ukvoyager that it went for £3249 in the UK.
rockmanrock then said convert 3249 * 1.32 = $4288.68 to try and get US price.
Acid Mitch pointed out that you would need to remove the UK vat of 20%.
rockmanrock then posted that chart of US tax, at which point I pointed out that you still need to deduct the UK vat to then add on the US tax to get appropriate price.

Please explain what it is I 'don't understand'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You also have NO clue as to the market 20-30 years ago.
There has NEVER been a better time than now for cheap gear, across the board, from originals to clones.
I was talking purely about 2nd hand synths, maybe should have specified.
Old 5 days ago
  #167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subverter View Post

Please explain what it is I 'don't understand'.
It's not as simple as 20% VAT. All American branded gear is sold in US dollars to European distributors. A few years ago the dollar was weak, today the $ and UK£ are almost at parity. So in those terms alone the price of a Moog has gone way up for UK buyers.
Also, traditionally the USA has been a very competitive market, with a powerful consumer and many, many retailers fighting for sales. This is not the case in Europe and the UK. For as long as I can remember (40 years), everything from drums, to synths, to CDs have been a lot more expensive in the UK than USA.

20% VAT doesn't help, but the more expensive Moog synth in Europe is a result of multiple factors, not just tax.
Old 5 days ago
  #168
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Subverter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
It's not as simple as 20% VAT. All American branded gear is sold in US dollars to European distributors. A few years ago the dollar was weak, today the $ and UK£ are almost at parity. So in those terms alone the price of a Moog has gone way up for UK buyers.
Also, traditionally the USA has been a very competitive market, with a powerful consumer and many, many retailers fighting for sales. This is not the case in Europe and the UK. For as long as I can remember (40 years), everything from drums, to synths, to CDs have been a lot more expensive in the UK than USA.

20% VAT doesn't help, but the more expensive Moog synth in Europe is a result of multiple factors, not just tax.
I don't disagree with anything you've said here but the original point in the discussion was that it was claimed the Model D reissue sold for $4000 and the lack of proof to substantiate that. My comment was merely a correction of rockmanrock's statement about tax, which still stands.

Not sure what it is you're trying to prove here?
Old 5 days ago
  #169
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tweekyboo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mat1 View Post

If Uli can sell a Model D for $700 then it costs what $200 to make for him?

I have no doubt that Moog could make and sell a Model D for $1750ish even including $11/hr assembler wages.
Do you know that it costs $200 to make a Model D? Is this just parts, or does it include all the wages, rent, r & d, etc?

Why are you sure that Moog could make a Model D for $1750ish? Perhaps they could but then the company may go under. Perhaps the people who work at Moog need to invest for the future, have mortgages to pay, families to support, etc.

Furthermore, if they are selling synths at the price they do now, why should they decrease the price?
Old 4 days ago
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweekyboo View Post
Furthermore, if they are selling synths at the price they do now, why should they decrease the price?
Well they shouldn't unless competition forces them to. They should charge the absolute maximum the market will bare. That's capitalism. Porsche's and Les Pauls only ever get more expensive too but fortunately there are plenty of alternatives.


If you can buy one from Behringer at $700 it points to a dealer price of $490. Cost to manufacture including all costs probably around $250.


Moog pay $10/hr. Average manufacturing wage in china is $5.50/hr and rising.


The difference between $700 and $3500 is a mixture of 0 competition and luxury/brand tax.


I have no problem with Luxury brands making luxury profits. I'm just happy we finally have alternatives.
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