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The California music industry could be in big trouble...
Old 22nd November 2019
  #1
The California music industry could be in big trouble...

See this article https://aristake.com/post/AB5 and this one https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...music-industry

FWIW
Old 22nd November 2019
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

I can't imagine that musicians won't be added to the list of exceptions eventually. In the short term, though, this will mainly make those transactions go off-grid and underground. And turn a lot of "musicians" into "repo men" and "paperboys," who are both on that list of exemptions.
Old 22nd November 2019
  #3
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AfterViewer's Avatar
 

Sounds like a win-win for the homeless shelters in the State.
Old 23rd November 2019
  #4
Gear Nut
Not surprised considering the tool running my state; thank the idiots playing part-time taxi driver
Old 23rd November 2019
  #5
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People trying to get by...those FOOLS!
Old 23rd November 2019
  #6
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post
People trying to get by...those FOOLS!
You got the last part right. Trying to get by is fine - pick up some extra cash, whatever. But if you want benefits, etc. you need do your part and tow the company line; I guarantee you that these same folks will bitch and moan if uber/lyft provide benefits - but then also require they work certain hours/days, where a uniform, answer to someone, etc. You know, things independent contractors don't have to do.
They want it both ways - doesn't work like that.
Old 23rd November 2019
  #7
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Stimpe I’m an independant contractor and I do have to wear a uniform, I do have to work certain hours/days, I do have to eat peoples s**t, and I do have to answer to someone. So do my colleagues.

Except now I get to choose my own gigs/schedule, and my pay is better.

So....
Old 23rd November 2019
  #8
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbDelux View Post
Stimpe I’m an independant contractor and I do have to wear a uniform, I do have to work certain hours/days, I do have to eat peoples s**t, and I do have to answer to someone. So do my colleagues.

Except now I get to choose my own gigs/schedule, and my pay is better.

So....
Fair point, but I'm willing to bet your skill set is far beyond that needed to drive for uber, or deliver for Postmates. I hope we can agree there's a difference between traditional contractors (military, IT, etc.) - and those folks that started driving part time (for whatever reason) and now want the job to adapt to them. Again, do you think the typical rideshare driver wants to adhere to the rules I outlined and you confirmed? I doubt it - seems to take away most of the pros in driving for uber/lyft.

Don't get me started on the financial situation some of these folks sometimes find themselves in... not necessarily their fault, and I don't know how the employment status would impact it... to me rideshare always seemed like a to-good-to-be-true situation... and I think we're now seeing the fairytale evaporate.
Old 23rd November 2019
  #9
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You are correct, my job is higher level stuff.

And that is also a fair point, that Uber and Lyft drivers should fall into a different category so to speak. I agree with you there.

From my understanding of the article however, this is goin to massively impact other industries than just rideshare. It feels too vague and blanketing.

Perhaps we should make a bill/law that ONLY applies to rideshare companies. I don’t have all the answers. But I do know that this was not an issue pre-rideshare; so why punish the non-rideshare contractors because of the crappy business practices of a few companies?
Old 23rd November 2019
  #10
Gear Nut
Totally agree with you on that last part.
Another issue I see with uber/lyft is the financial hole some folks find themselves in - leasing a car from a dealership via uber/lyft, with the biweekly payment coming straight out of their rideshare account, what could go wrong? Nevermind that conveyance - which is what's going on here - is considered 'commercial user' in many circles...
Old 24th November 2019
  #11
Gear Maniac
I'm incorporated and part of the CFM/AFM, and I'm also Canadian, which means I have to apply for a P2 visa every single time, it's almost impossible for me to play one off shows in the US! Either I tour or stay home. Lately I've been staying home which sucks for the fans.
Old 25th November 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
The TV and film industries all insist that W2 forms are filled in before starting a job - so perhaps it's time that the music biz did the same?
Old 25th November 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellohead View Post
I'm incorporated and part of the CFM/AFM, and I'm also Canadian, which means I have to apply for a P2 visa every single time, it's almost impossible for me to play one off shows in the US! Either I tour or stay home. Lately I've been staying home which sucks for the fans.
Not sure about the rest of the country, but here in LA self-promoted shows in small venues are almost all cash-only and off-grid. I do know a few well-heeled ar-teests, usually of a certain age, who cut checks and 1099 and all that for their players and crew, but I suspect the new reality will change that.
Old 26th November 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpe View Post
You got the last part right. Trying to get by is fine - pick up some extra cash, whatever. But if you want benefits, etc. you need do your part and tow the company line; I guarantee you that these same folks will bitch and moan if uber/lyft provide benefits - but then also require they work certain hours/days, where a uniform, answer to someone, etc. You know, things independent contractors don't have to do.
They want it both ways - doesn't work like that.
If Uber/Lyft treated their employees with a modicum of respect and extended benefits to them, I think the employees would be much happier.

As far as I know their employees already bitch and moan.
Old 26th November 2019
  #15
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweekyboo View Post
If Uber/Lyft treated their employees with a modicum of respect and extended benefits to them, I think the employees would be much happier.

As far as I know their employees already bitch and moan.
If they were actually employees of Uber/Lyft I don't think we'd be having this discussion... as far as respect, how are they being disrespected?

That said, best thing to do when you're not happy with your job - find a new job. I've increased my department's staffing by 400% the last four years
... all people that weren't happy with their previous gig, and a few weren't happy with this one - so they left.
If you want benefits, find a place that offers them and punch that clock; want to 'be your own boss?' - best of luck to ya, quite a few make it work.

Btw - benefits can roughly double payroll expenses...
Old 26th November 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpe View Post
If they were actually employees of Uber/Lyft I don't think we'd be having this discussion... as far as respect, how are they being disrespected?

That said, best thing to do when you're not happy with your job - find a new job. I've increased my department's staffing by 400% the last four years
... all people that weren't happy with their previous gig, and a few weren't happy with this one - so they left.
If you want benefits, find a place that offers them and punch that clock; want to 'be your own boss?' - best of luck to ya, quite a few make it work.

Btw - benefits can roughly double payroll expenses...
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nsumer-sumofus

Quote:
Uber’s wrongdoing doesn’t stop at the door of its corporate headquarters. Just as pernicious is the corporation’s extremely profitable model of “employment”. In fact Uber offers no such thing to the people delivering its service, consistently finding ways to pass the risk of growing its business down to its drivers. In the vast majority of cases, Uber drivers are offered low pay, no sick pay, no redundancy and no holiday.

In return, they are promised “flexibility”, or the freedom to work whatever hours suit them. In practice, many Uber drivers are working long, long shifts for poor pay in order to try to make ends meet as Uber “scales” upwards without facing any financial penalty to itself for growing too fast.
Old 26th November 2019
  #17
Gear Nut
Quote:
Sorry - must have missed the part where it said they were forced to continue driving... or using Uber.
Old 27th November 2019
  #18
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Old 27th November 2019
  #19
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by raggedman View Post
Anything constructive to add?
Old 28th November 2019
  #20
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Nah...just praying for rain
Old 1st December 2019
  #21
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Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
The whole thread is politics, and I'm deeply saddened by the light-touch moderation on this.

AB5 is a byproduct of the way we govern. We wait until it's an emergency, like how Uber and Lyft drivers don't often clear minimum wage after expenses are factored, and try to solve the problem with another band-aid.

The fact that so many turn to these guaranteed second jobs is because the economy around us is crumbling. Half the gigs are pay-to-play anyway. The working cover bands out here work enough to where their players ought to be on W2 with the schedule constrictions. People are doing scab gigs at major arenas.

With 1099, the contractor shoulders the tax burden, the insurance burden, etc. People aren't saying yes for extra cash, they're trying to string together a living with what little capital they have in their car. Ultimately they're destroying the vehicle's value and trading that for cash payments. The labor itself pays like $5/hr.

But when it's 1099 and it's paid piecemeal, it's hard to work that out and enforce minimum wage, which is $11 in California, now. A 2 hour on stage gig for example could take 5 hours of time between load out, load in, and the drive and pays $50, so you're gonna make $10/hr, or below minimum wage.

Cover band leaders, venue owners, etc are taking advantage of musicians and their inability to calculate monetary math accurately the same way Uber and Lyft are. The race to $0 is real, and y'all wanna gripe about the political process.

Do it for free or do it for a good wage.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
We wait until it's an emergency, like how Uber and Lyft drivers don't often clear minimum wage after expenses are factored, and try to solve the problem with another band-aid.
But, see... there's no emergency; if the job doesn't pay after expenses, find a new job. When you try and make a career out of something people can do for themselves (drive, pick up food, etc.), be prepared when it doesn't work out. I go to my hairstylist because she possesses a certain skill-set, but I drive myself to the appointment.

Though I agree that they're killing their cars in the process - depreciation, and the stigma of 'commercial-use'
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpe View Post
But, see... there's no emergency; if the job doesn't pay after expenses, find a new job. When you try and make a career out of something people can do for themselves (drive, pick up food, etc.), be prepared when it doesn't work out. I go to my hairstylist because she possesses a certain skill-set, but I drive myself to the appointment.

Though I agree that they're killing their cars in the process - depreciation, and the stigma of 'commercial-use'
This is a job of last resort, and it's paying under minimum wage. People aren't doing this work because they can find something else.

There's over 90,000 full-time uber drivers. That's an emergency.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
This is a job of last resort, and it's paying under minimum wage. People aren't doing this work because they can find something else.

There's over 90,000 full-time uber drivers. That's an emergency.
Sounds like perhaps there's too many... a job of last resort could actually pay minimum wage - like McDonald's.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpe View Post
Sounds like perhaps there's too many... a job of last resort could actually pay minimum wage - like McDonald's.
Believe me, half the uber drivers I know would prefer to work a McJob, but they're not hiring.

Next time you're in there, look at the people working. It's not teenagers anymore.

So you can continue to see the world through this lens of yours, one that is definitely distorted, or not.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
This is a job of last resort, and it's paying under minimum wage. People aren't doing this work because they can find something else.

There's over 90,000 full-time uber drivers. That's an emergency.
How is this an emergency? To who?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #29
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalsound View Post
How is this an emergency?
You're just looking at the world through a distorted lens...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #30
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raggedman's Avatar
 

I already said ... allow me to add and
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