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Waves - What an arrogance - V11 - Bug fixes for a fee
Old 28th October 2019
  #1
Waves - What an arrogance - V11 - Bug fixes for a fee

https://www.waves.com/downloads/release-notes

Relevant to the newly announced Waves 11.

It seems to be the norm but why should plugin companies charge for bug fixes.

Such an injustice and if I dare say it arrogant. Biting the fingers of the very same customers who keep them in business.

I've been waiting for some glaring bug fixes in their instruments - Waves - Rhapsody and Electric 88 for over two years... will test and see if this has been resolved as part of their latest revision in V11. in Waves 9 and 10, these sample playback plugins continue to use more RAM until your DAW crashes or you are (if lucky) able to save. close and restart your DAW...

The update notice includes the catch all statement :

"Various other fixes and improvements"
Old 28th October 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 

When I saw the Waves 11 Announcement email this morning, I rolled my eyes and thought the same thing. Unfortunately every audio software company we deal with does the same thing.

To play Devil's Advocate, of course, first and foremost they're businesses who need to find new ways to grow their bottom line all the time. Second of all, quite a bit of R&D does go into keeping all of those plugins updated for new OSs, squashing bugs like you mentioned, and doing things like redesigning the interfaces for the Renaissance plugs. It's not totally unreasonable for a business to charge for this.

Keep in mind the Waves Update Plan. Any plugs you purchased get free updates for a year, and renewing the plan is an astronomically lower fee than repurchasing all of your updated plugins (edit: it renews for a year at a time).

Renew your plan here and you will get V11 included for free:

https://www.waves.com/account/get-waves-update-plan
Old 28th October 2019
  #3
Gear Nut
 

I got this notice too

Is there a point to upgrading to v11? My upgrade for free plan ends Nov 14, considering updating it just to have it done. I’m not planning on updating to Catalina for a while.
Old 28th October 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AevumWinter View Post
I got this notice too

Is there a point to upgrading to v11? My upgrade for free plan ends Nov 14, considering updating it just to have it done. I’m not planning on updating to Catalina for a while.
From the look of it, the main reasons would be Catalina support, and new interfaces for the Renaissance plugins.

For me I'll definitely be upgrading for Catalina, since I do want to be on that OS eventually. If you're happy rocking with the versions you have now and with your current OS, I'd say no reason to upgrade.

They fixed quite a lot of bugs, which you can see in the link OP sent.
Old 28th October 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
Has anyone tried the V9, V10 stuff on Catalina?
Does it work?
Old 28th October 2019
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
From the look of it, the main reasons would be Catalina support, and new interfaces for the Renaissance plugins.

For me I'll definitely be upgrading for Catalina, since I do want to be on that OS eventually. If you're happy rocking with the versions you have now and with your current OS, I'd say no reason to upgrade.

They fixed quite a lot of bugs, which you can see in the link OP sent.
Yeah maybe I will. I mean I'm not opposed to Catalina, I just like to keep a stable OS as long as I can, and plus not everything I use has been updated to work with it yet.
Old 29th October 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
Is it just me or is version 11 way too early? How many years did version 9 exist? 10 has been around 2 years, hasn't it?
Old 29th October 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Is it just me or is version 11 way too early? How many years did version 9 exist? 10 has been around 2 years, hasn't it?
Agreed. Again, I'm not opposed to updating to v11, and luckily my upgrade will be entirely covered by the Waves Upgrade Plan, but aside from Catalina support and the Renaissance redesign, I don't see a whole lot of earth-shattering changes that warrant a whole new version.

My v10 plugins are all on version 10.0.1, so there weren't even many updates for version 10.
Old 29th October 2019
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

I've only just upgraded everything to v10 a few months ago.

This feels like a massive slap in the face. Any tweaks that became necessary due to Catalina incompatibility should have been made according to the usual M.O., in this case, falling midway into v10's life... IMHO.

What did I get for my hundreds spent ($300 AU in my case) just months ago? Waves should automatically move anyone who recently purchased v10 to v11 IMHO.

Aarrgghh!

EDIT:
I've removed my tears of pain from the post now that I've swallowed the pill that there's no other option for me other than to pay the $240 US cap once again 'cause a chunk of my collection has expired in the past few months. No other way to bring everything to v11, which I assume will be necessary for Catalina.
Old 29th October 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Local Man View Post
Has anyone tried the V9, V10 stuff on Catalina?
Does it work?
I of the thinking that some of it will work fine. As it is already 64 bit capable etc etc

What definitely will not work, is Soundgrid. In fact Soundgrid will not work at all with V11 WAVES either.
Old 29th October 2019
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Some context:
I saved diligently the moment v10 dropped and was only able to finally update everything in one go midway through this year. It was a struggle to get there, and no sooner have I been able to finally put this to bed than this ruddy email arrives.

Aarrgghh!
So you purchased v10 midway through this year? As in June/July? Because if so you'll get a free upgrade to v11.......
Old 29th October 2019
  #12
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Is it just me or is version 11 way too early?
It feels like it to me too, but looking at the history of v6 -> v7 -> v8, upgrades every 18 months seems to be the Waves standard. v9 seems to be the outlier.

So now I'm back to the same confusion I had with the last upgrade. If I install v11 Waves Central, are my v10 licenses still going to work? Can I run newly bought v11 & v10 plugins on the same machine? If I upgrade the v10 licenses to v11, that means those plugins won't work on El Capitan anymore, will they?

I'd feel better about this if I knew I could upgrade the licenses but still run them on older hardware if I need to.
Old 29th October 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 
DeadPoet's Avatar
I don't get the fuzz about this??

My WUP is covered until Feb 2020. When I saw the news yesterday I opened up Waves Central, downloaded the new one, opened up the webpage to "update to newest version", ran Waves Central and 30 minutes later I was running V11.


No money was asked, none was sent - that's why I'm paying WUP.



(I've noticed some minor graphics bugs in V11 but nothing major. Kind of like the new look of the Renaissance stuff but it needs getting used to it)



Herwig
Old 29th October 2019
  #14
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPoet View Post
I don't get the fuzz about this??

My WUP is covered until Feb 2020. When I saw the news yesterday I opened up Waves Central, downloaded the new one, opened up the webpage to "update to newest version", ran Waves Central and 30 minutes later I was running V11.


No money was asked, none was sent - that's why I'm paying WUP.



(I've noticed some minor graphics bugs in V11 but nothing major. Kind of like the new look of the Renaissance stuff but it needs getting used to it)



Herwig
You say "no money was asked", yet you've been paying Waves $240/year for how long? Most people don't keep their WUP current because there's just no need. Minor updates (e.g. 10.0 to 10.1) are always free, even without WUP. WUP is only needed if you want to update to a new major release, like V11.

It's only now that V11 has come out that people find they have to renew their WUP if they want to update. The question is, what exactly does V11 bring over V10 making it worth the cost of renewing your WUP? Especially if you're on Windows and don't use any of the Renaissance plugins...
Old 29th October 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Aarrgghh!
If you just updated to V10 couple months ago, then you should have at least part of your plugin collection still covered by WUP. So for those you should get free update to 11.
Also after update of licenses to V11 you can still install and use V10 versions. At least that works for me with licenses at USB flash drive (as opposed to storing licenses at harddrive), when I move between computers. At one setup I've decided to don't go to V11, because V10 works good there and I'm using 32 bit plugins (which were deprecated in V11).

The other option, if current versions works good for you, could be to postpone V11 update, unless you have real reason for that. Maybe V10 won't work with Catalina, but I actually haven't tried that. In general I'd likely skip whole Catalina and consider another OS version say in two years. So far, as I've tried, it doesn't bring anything but issues and restrictions with forced app notarization. I'm more than fed up with yearly Mac OS update cycle, where for half of that period something is broken (either because of Apple, like screwed USB audio in Mojave.. or because of necessary updates and reworks from 3rd parties.. which doesn't matter at the end, because you simply can't update, if it's important for you).

Michal
Old 29th October 2019
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
I've only just upgraded everything to v10 a few months ago.

This feels like a massive slap in the face and IMHO any tweaks that became necessary due to Catalina incompatibility should have been made according to the usual M.O., in this case, falling midway into v10's life.

Honestly, what a stitch-up! I mean, what did I get for my hundreds spent ($300 AU in my case) just months ago? I'm the calmest dude you could hope to meet and can proudly say that I've never been angry, ever, but I'm tempted to feel livid right now. This is daylight robbery and IMHO Waves should automatically move anyone who recently purchased v10 to v11. No need to extend dates or anything, just move us up to v11 with the existing WUP time constraints according to our purchase dates.

Some context:
I saved diligently the moment v10 dropped and was only able to finally update everything in one go midway through this year. It was a struggle to get there, and no sooner have I been able to finally put this to bed than this ruddy email arrives.

Aarrgghh!
What are you on about?
If you upgraded your wup 6 months ago, you can upgrade to 11 for free, no?
Old 29th October 2019
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvancedFollower View Post
It's only now that V11 has come out that people find they have to renew their WUP if they want to update. The question is, what exactly does V11 bring over V10 making it worth the cost of renewing your WUP? Especially if you're on Windows and don't use any of the Renaissance plugins...
So then don't upgrade...? If V10 is working on your system and with your workflow, it will continue to work and this doesn't affect you. V11 seems like Waves' way of dealing with the Catalina upgrade. It's not their fault that Apple decides to radically change their OS once a year, which isn't "pro" friendly...but then the "pros" also won't be upgrading their stable systems every year either, so they don't need to be paying WUP until a system upgrade.

Waves also doesn't have the insane re-instatement fee model like Avid...if you want something aggregious to complain about, take a look over there... (one price if you keep up your yearly "support plan", another price if you've let it lapse and want to jump on again.)
Old 29th October 2019
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Well to be honest, everyone charges for that. They just roll it out with new features, but charge more for it. So you still get what you pay for. Which is still optional at this point, until you decide that it’s something you need. If you don’t need it, don’t pay for it

Besides, anyone with a valid WUP should still get it for free. Alternatively bundle upgrades are worth considering too as you’ll probably just get more value for money. It’s annoying, but not a solid annoying as how much iZotope charges for an RX upgrade, which will be due soon.
Old 29th October 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
So then don't upgrade...? If V10 is working on your system and with your workflow, it will continue to work and this doesn't affect you. V11 seems like Waves' way of dealing with the Catalina upgrade. It's not their fault that Apple decides to radically change their OS once a year, which isn't "pro" friendly...but then the "pros" also won't be upgrading their stable systems every year either, so they don't need to be paying WUP until a system upgrade.

Waves also doesn't have the insane re-instatement fee model like Avid...if you want something aggregious to complain about, take a look over there... (one price if you keep up your yearly "support plan", another price if you've let it lapse and want to jump on again.)
It may not seem pro friendly, but more then often pros benefit from it and developers. 64-bit only will be a win in terms or performance. The new app signing will be a win for anti malware and anti-piracy. Which wouldn’t be necessary, by the way if it wasn’t for all the people out there doing the wrong thing.

Apple has a huge investment in music and now TV. They need the pros to make the content so they can sell it. It’s in their best interest to look after the pro market because in the end they benefit, p,us it’s good publicity. They win on many levels.
Old 29th October 2019
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
I've only just upgraded everything to v10 a few months ago.

This feels like a massive slap in the face and IMHO any tweaks that became necessary due to Catalina incompatibility should have been made according to the usual M.O., in this case, falling midway into v10's life.

Honestly, what a stitch-up! I mean, what did I get for my hundreds spent ($300 AU in my case) just months ago? I'm the calmest dude you could hope to meet and can proudly say that I've never been angry, ever, but I'm tempted to feel livid right now. This is daylight robbery and IMHO Waves should automatically move anyone who recently purchased v10 to v11. No need to extend dates or anything, just move us up to v11 with the existing WUP time constraints according to our purchase dates.

Some context:
I saved diligently the moment v10 dropped and was only able to finally update everything in one go midway through this year. It was a struggle to get there, and no sooner have I been able to finally put this to bed than this ruddy email arrives.

Aarrgghh!
You are in the good light. As long as you still have an active WUP plan, which it seems you do (which is 1 year from the date of your most recent update), you are entitled to upgrade for free to the new version.

An active WUP plan is typically either :

12 month from the date when you 1st bought the plugin

or

12 months from the date when you most recently bought the WUP Plan covering one or more plugins.

So for you I think you have nothing to worry about, simply log into your Waves account, via the web site, and you will find a "get latest version" option, for the plugins for which you are eligible to do this. This update of your license to the new version, is free.

I had a few plugins which I obtained recently, including some which were gifts during Waves special give aways, within the last year, and I have immediately done the "get latest version" of their licenses to V11.

On my computer I still have the version 10 software and version 10 license installed, not planning to make any changes locally.

Where I think it gets tricky is if you attempt to do this "get latest version" via the Waves Central app, not sure what the implications are, if it forces you to have to upgrade the apps locally.

I suggest you do this "free" "get latest version" action asap...

As you said, ideally this action should be automatic, but it does seem as if it is possible if you wait till after your WUP expires, that you may still be on your current version, and have to pay another WUP, to obtain what you could have obtained now for free...

I am ever so glad you raised the issue, cos it made me think, o oh, while I do have some older plugins, I thankfully have now sorted the few plugins which are still eligible for an update to the new version.

Thanks for prompting action on my part.
Old 29th October 2019
  #21
Gear Nut
For others that were as confused as me, the Waves V11 FAQ will probably be helpful:

https://www.waves.com/support/waves-...sked-questions

For me, the most helpful parts:
I have V11 licenses, but my system is only compatible with an earlier Waves version. What can I do?
Not to worry! V11 licenses can activate V9 and V10 software.
Can I run V9, V10 and V11 plugins on the same system?
V9, V10 and V11 plugins can run on the same system, as long as you don't install two (or three) versions of the same plugin. Each plugin should be installed as either V9 or V10 or V11, but not more than one version.
Old 29th October 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrixx View Post
What definitely will not work, is Soundgrid. In fact Soundgrid will not work at all with V11 WAVES either.
What? But I was planning to get one of the servers. What the…
Old 29th October 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyneRyder View Post
Quote:
Can I run V9, V10 and V11 plugins on the same system?
V9, V10 and V11 plugins can run on the same system, as long as you don't install two (or three) versions of the same plugin. Each plugin should be installed as either V9 or V10 or V11, but not more than one version.
This what I can do then, as I have both expired plug-ins (Horizon and RS56) and others covered until well into next year.

To upgrade all my waves I have to pay $240. With Horizon I will get the Metafilter (that seems to have been added with 11) I had planned to get anyway.

Considering I got an upgrade to from existing plug-ins Horizon plus full WUP for all my waves plug-ins for $329 summer 2018 (which is what partially covers me into 2020), I guess that's all-right. Though I thought 11 was like a year away.

As I'm not likely to move to Catalina any time soon it's not as if I'm forced to upgrade anything right now. I wonder if a WUP sale could be coming Black Friday? If so I might go ahead.

Last edited by Mikael B; 30th October 2019 at 10:57 AM..
Old 29th October 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
VST3 in Ableton Live?

Anyone have tried the Waves 11 VST3 plug-ins in Ableton Live 10.1 yet?
Old 29th October 2019
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
What? But I was planning to get one of the servers. What the…
I should have clarified further.
V11 will "currently" not load into Soundgrid. Soundgrid is still 32bit and an update is coming, but they have not said when.
Old 30th October 2019
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbass View Post
What are you on about?
I'm just an idiot on the internet, mate. I'll explain my ignorance and situation following your question below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbass View Post
If you upgraded your wup 6 months ago, you can upgrade to 11 for free, no?
I spoke with support immediately after I upgraded and learned that contrary to my belief that I'd upgraded everything, it turned out that only the expired plugins were updated in the plan.

I apparently made an error somewhere by missing a checkbox / option / selection 'cause the Waves guy said I should have paid over $400 US or something when in fact I'd gone with the $240 US cap. I figured that seeing as everything had been updated to v10 I'd be "fine".

Of course, this is now biting me in the ass 'cause the plugs that've expired in the last several months now take my WUP-renewal fee back over the cap, so I'll have to fork out $240 US once again in order to bring them to v11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
So you purchased v10 midway through this year? As in June/July? Because if so you'll get a free upgrade to v11.......
Thank you, Matty.

As I explain below, it turned out that my WUP upgrade only applied to non-expired plugs, so in the meantime a whole lot of 'em have now expired, requiring that I purchase the capped upgrade once again in order to go to v11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
If you just updated to V10 couple months ago, then you should have at least part of your plugin collection still covered by WUP. So for those you should get free update to 11.
Also after update of licenses to V11 you can still install and use V10 versions. At least that works for me with licenses at USB flash drive (as opposed to storing licenses at harddrive), when I move between computers. At one setup I've decided to don't go to V11, because V10 works good there and I'm using 32 bit plugins (which were deprecated in V11).

The other option, if current versions works good for you, could be to postpone V11 update, unless you have real reason for that. Maybe V10 won't work with Catalina, but I actually haven't tried that. In general I'd likely skip whole Catalina and consider another OS version say in two years. So far, as I've tried, it doesn't bring anything but issues and restrictions with forced app notarization. I'm more than fed up with yearly Mac OS update cycle, where for half of that period something is broken (either because of Apple, like screwed USB audio in Mojave.. or because of necessary updates and reworks from 3rd parties.. which doesn't matter at the end, because you simply can't update, if it's important for you).

Michal
Thank you, Michal.

Unfortunately, AFAIK my planned computer upgrade will mean that I will require v11 'cause it won't run a pre-Catalina OS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
You are in the good light. As long as you still have an active WUP plan, which it seems you do (which is 1 year from the date of your most recent update), you are entitled to upgrade for free to the new version.

An active WUP plan is typically either :

12 month from the date when you 1st bought the plugin

or

12 months from the date when you most recently bought the WUP Plan covering one or more plugins.

So for you I think you have nothing to worry about, simply log into your Waves account, via the web site, and you will find a "get latest version" option, for the plugins for which you are eligible to do this. This update of your license to the new version, is free.
Thank you, OK1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
I suggest you do this "free" "get latest version" action asap...
I immediately took your advice and most were updated. Yay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
As you said, ideally this action should be automatic, but it does seem as if it is possible if you wait till after your WUP expires, that you may still be on your current version, and have to pay another WUP, to obtain what you could have obtained now for free...
Indeed, this is what has happened for a sufficient number of plugins to require that I fork out $240 US once again, less than 6 months after I'd brought them all to v10... ouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
I am ever so glad you raised the issue, cos it made me think, o oh, while I do have some older plugins, I thankfully have now sorted the few plugins which are still eligible for an update to the new version.
Thank God my ignorant rant yielded a positive outcome for someone, brother!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
Thanks for prompting action on my part.
The honour is all mine, mate.
Old 30th October 2019
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyneRyder View Post
For others that were as confused as me, the Waves V11 FAQ will probably be helpful:

https://www.waves.com/support/waves-...sked-questions

For me, the most helpful parts:
I have V11 licenses, but my system is only compatible with an earlier Waves version. What can I do?
Not to worry! V11 licenses can activate V9 and V10 software.
Can I run V9, V10 and V11 plugins on the same system?
V9, V10 and V11 plugins can run on the same system, as long as you don't install two (or three) versions of the same plugin. Each plugin should be installed as either V9 or V10 or V11, but not more than one version.
Very relevant. I had versions 10 and 11 of some plugins installed, and only the version 11 was activated in my DAW. Now I understand why. I'll have to uninstall all the version 10 plugins, if I want only 11, or uninstall version 11 if I want the version 11 license to activate the version 10 software.

I am relieved that I can continue to use an older version software if I so choose... excellent - I was a bit worried about that. - Most relieved now.
Old 30th October 2019
  #28
This is a bit of a silent Waves bombshell..

Version 11 has deprecated all support for 32 bit executables, in Windows, and I guess same for Mac.

What is so sneaky is that Waves omitted to mention this, I only found out when going through my plugin list for version 11 in my DAW, and was wondering what happened.

Checked the version 11 specs and its there in black and white - 64 bit Windows, no mention of 32 bit Windows...

Most disingenuous - at least someone in Waves should have included such an important change in the Release notes.

It may not be significant to many users, but a few will be caught out and scratching their heads wondering - what happened to my Waves upgrade ?!!!!, not realising that V11 is a major change

No more 32 bit plugins from Waves.......

Typically only has an impact on anyone who still uses a 32 bit DAW....which is unable to load 64 bit plugins - like Reaper is able to.

4 months ago I was still using 32 bit DAW's and if this update had come early, I'd be scratching my head wondering what the F, had gone wrong.
Old 30th October 2019
  #29
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
I'll have to uninstall all the version 10 plugins, if I want only 11, or uninstall version 11 if I want the version 11 license to activate the version 10 software.
To make that crystal clear to people like me, I believe you need to uninstall all 10 plug-ins that you plan to use 11 plug-ins with, and not those you only have in 10 (or 9). The activation follows from those two, i e "11" licenses activates "10"/"9" plug-ins provided you have "11" licenses for those and "10" activates the "10" you haven't updated.
Old 30th October 2019
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
This is a bit of a silent Waves bombshell..

Version 11 has deprecated all support for 32 bit executables, in Windows, and I guess same for Mac.

What is so sneaky is that Waves omitted to mention this, I only found out when going through my plugin list for version 11 in my DAW, and was wondering what happened.

Checked the version 11 specs and its there in black and white - 64 bit Windows, no mention of 32 bit Windows...

Most disingenuous - at least someone in Waves should have included such an important change in the Release notes.

It may not be significant to many users, but a few will be caught out and scratching their heads wondering - what happened to my Waves upgrade ?!!!!, not realising that V11 is a major change

No more 32 bit plugins from Waves.......

Typically only has an impact on anyone who still uses a 32 bit DAW....which is unable to load 64 bit plugins - like Reaper is able to.

4 months ago I was still using 32 bit DAW's and if this update had come early, I'd be scratching my head wondering what the F, had gone wrong.
Catalina will run 64bit apps only so it's not a surprise developers are dropping 32 bit support. I bet Windows will follow sometime down the road too. There's no point in keeping 32 bit around anymore.

As for V11 updates, I upgraded my main bundle during Black Friday sales last year and could get the V11 for free, as you get 1 year WUP when you buy or upgrade a plugin or bundle. I think it's quite fair from Waves to release V11 now because all the people who bought plugins during last BF are covered for the V11 upgrade. And you may even get some cool free plugins depending on what bundle you are.

Also, I still have 5 or 6 V9 plugins that are running perfectly fine with all the V11 stuff so there is no need to update everything you own if you don't absolutely need to.
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