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Where are all the recording studios going???
Old 7th September 2019
  #1
Where are all the recording studios going???

Got a call from a reggae performer who wanted to do some recording and could not find a studio. Our company does mastering and restoration and we don't have a "studio" that is suitable for recording live. I figured I would help him and looked up recording studios while he was on the phone. 20 years ago there were 500 recording studios within 100 miles of our company but today that number is very low and I could not really find any studios near him (Elyria, Ohio). I guess the DIY movement has taken over. Too bad. There was a studio that opened in Lorain, OH (8 miles from him) with a lot of hoopla two years ago but they no longer in business. Even widening out the scope of the search there were very few "recording studios" until I got to Columbus and then there were several. I guess the days of owning a recording studio in this area have come and gone. Too bad

FWIW
Old 7th September 2019
  #2
Gear Maniac
where are all the recording studios going ?

to condo developers.

mostly.
Old 7th September 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 
swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Got a call from a reggae performer who wanted to do some recording and could not find a studio. Our company does mastering and restoration and we don't have a "studio" that is suitable for recording live. I figured I would help him and looked up recording studios while he was on the phone. 20 years ago there were 500 recording studios within 100 miles of our company but today that number is very low and I could not really find any studios near him (Elyria, Ohio). I guess the DIY movement has taken over. Too bad...
Maybe.

I think if you look at why studios can't charge a rate that yields a profit, it's just as likely due to the bottom falling out of being able to make a living as a band/musician - radio play, club pay, centralized promotion and advertisement (newspapers) instead of fractured social media, programed radio and the death of non-commercial stations and stagnant pay, etc. has more to do with musicians not being able to pay the rate an urban studio with a large commercial space and the rent to go with it, needs to charge to make it profitable. I didn't put a studio in my barn to undercut commercial studios, I put it there because I could no longer make enough money to justify a commercial studio.
Old 7th September 2019
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
Maybe.

I think if you look at why studios can't charge a rate that yields a profit, it's just as likely due to the bottom falling out of being able to make a living as a band/musician - radio play, club pay, centralized promotion and advertisement (newspapers) instead of fractured social media, programed radio and the death of non-commercial stations and stagnant pay, etc. has more to do with musicians not being able to pay the rate an urban studio with a large commercial space and the rent to go with it, needs to charge to make it profitable. I didn't put a studio in my barn to undercut commercial studios, I put it there because I could no longer make enough money to justify a commercial studio.
You are most likely correct.

Musicians are no longer able to make ANY money playing locally (most bars and lounges here are "pay to play") and even if they tour the cost of touring is probably prohibitively expensive compared to what they can make on the road, so no money left for recording in a studio. (Hence the rise of the self recording generation).

I also think that real estate prices keep going up as do rental rates for recording studios. The studios that are left are either making money by renting out part of their facilities to a producer or engineer or they are doing video and audio recording for commercials. In the past 10 years more studios around here have closed than new ones opening.

Too bad.

If you are one of the mega recording stars then you can afford to record in a pro studio but more and more top tier performers are putting studios into their own houses so the can record when they want to. Makes sense and they can use it as a tax write off.

Maybe someday things will change. But for the immediate future I see more and more studios closing and not being replaced.
Old 7th September 2019
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
HerbDelux's Avatar
 

I cant intelligently comment on where the studios are going. Probably a mix of real estate, DIY takeover, and as mentioned, the fact that making money as a musician now is harder.


But Thomas you mentioned pay to play shows, and I just wanted to say: Ive been gigging in San Diego for the past 6 years. I love the Dive bars. They give you free beer and like 20% of the bar tab.

But there are a few venues out here that are basically ONLY pay to play venues. Its the most annoying thing in the world and incredibly demeaning. You want me to pay MY MONEY for the right to play MY MUSIC? No. Thank. You.
Old 7th September 2019
  #6
Deleted 5cc75a2
Guest
ask sean parker and daniel ek that question
Old 8th September 2019
  #7
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
20 years ago there were 500 recording studios within 100 miles of our company but today that number is very low ....
There were 500 recording studios within 100 miles of a town that has a pop of 8,286?
Old 8th September 2019
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
There were 500 recording studios within 100 miles of a town that has a pop of 8,286?
That is correct. By actual count and we sent letters to all of them advertising our mastering and restoration services. Names were drawn from the internet and from phone books and ranged from commercial studios to DIY studios. Of all the letters we sent out only three were returned for address problems and we got no takers for our services. A big waste of time and money.
Old 8th September 2019
  #9
Lives for gear
 

We've got more than you can shake a stick at in the Pittsburgh, PA area, including a new one with a great NEVE and another old standby (CHurch) that just installed a NEVE. Seriously, we have at least 20 decent ones.
Old 8th September 2019
  #10
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doom64's Avatar
People have needs and wants. It is way more difficult to sell wants. It is difficult to sell services to someone that can do it themselves.
Old 9th September 2019
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 5cc75a2 View Post
ask sean parker and daniel ek that question
To be fair, the bottom had fallen out of the money side of the music industry long before spotify - if anything, streaming has improved some aspects of revenue - it's killed illegal downloading for a start!
Old 10th September 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Where are all the recording studios going?
Doom64 said it perfectly with "It is difficult to sell services to someone that can do it themselves."

Abut six years ago, a recording studio here in the UK opened with a budget of £2m (c.a. $3.3m). Steinway grand, two live rooms, PT-HD, Two RN desks, three studios, loads of backline and other instruments.

They are located in a city with a catchment area of about 2m, there is no other comparable studio in that area and it acts as a sort of regional media hub for TV and radio. There must be about a thousand bands in that city, all gigging, some quite successfully too.

1st yr turnover £54,000
2nd yr turnover £45,000
3rd yr turnover £32,000

After that, it was between £20k and £30k p.a. Those figures are not net profit. Those figures are not even gross profit. That is total turnover. Acts come in for a day, two days, maybe a week, but that's it.

That is less than the depreciation on the equipment!

The place keeps going because the guy who owns it gets money from his father. Without that money-hose, the place would be gone in a few days! If you want to run a conventional studio, get yourself a money-hose.

Either that or diversify! Location recording, video services, music school, something!

"What's that King Friday? You don't know how to diversify? And you don't have a money-hose? And Lady Elaine doesn't have a money-hose either? Well, we're going to have to get onto the magic trolley to the Neighbourhood of Make-Belive. That's where studios are still recording rock bands and earning money!"
Old 10th September 2019
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Doom64 said it perfectly with "It is difficult to sell services to someone that can do it themselves."

Abut six years ago, a recording studio here in the UK opened with a budget of £2m (c.a. $3.3m). Steinway grand, two live rooms, PT-HD, Two RN desks, three studios, loads of backline and other instruments.

They are located in a city with a catchment area of about 2m, there is no other comparable studio in that area and it acts as a sort of regional media hub for TV and radio. There must be about a thousand bands in that city, all gigging, some quite successfully too.

1st yr turnover £54,000
2nd yr turnover £45,000
3rd yr turnover £32,000

After that, it was between £20k and £30k p.a. Those figures are not net profit. Those figures are not even gross profit. That is total turnover. Acts come in for a day, two days, maybe a week, but that's it.

That is less than the depreciation on the equipment!

The place keeps going because the guy who owns it gets money from his father. Without that money-hose, the place would be gone in a few days! If you want to run a conventional studio, get yourself a money-hose.

Either that or diversify! Location recording, video services, music school, something!

"What's that King Friday? You don't know how to diversify? And you don't have a money-hose? And Lady Elaine doesn't have a money-hose either? Well, we're going to have to get onto the magic trolley to the Neighbourhood of Make-Belive. That's where studios are still recording rock bands and earning money!"
Ha I can guess exactly where that is. You neglect to mention that not only is it a big city, it’s a musically culturally significant city and there’s also a 2nd culturally significant city an hour away too! Possibly more so than London in lots of ways...

I know another studio that did a similar thing (in London), funded by the bank of mum and dad, around the millennium. Kept going for years, and on the day to day was probably profitable due to lots of X factor work, but I’d be surprised if it paid back the cost of the gear (brand new 88r etc) and build through profits.
Old 10th September 2019
  #14
In the 80s and into the 90s a lot of studios were built by people looking for "tax shelters". I got involved in one such endeavor. It was a group of doctors looking to build a recording studio with the express idea to lose money. They spent a bundle on the building and equipment. I guess it was fun while it lasted (three years) but they soon lost interest and found other ways to form a "tax shelter". I do not know what happened in the end as I was only hired in for the build and commissioning. As soon as the financial support was removed the operation folded as there was no real business to support it. FWIW
Old 10th September 2019
  #15
Gear Maniac
back in the early 90's a dude i worked with in a local studio told me this piece of advice and it holds true even more so todayL

how do you make a million bucks in the music (recording) biz ?

start with 2 million.
Old 11th September 2019
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestifer View Post
back in the early 90's a dude i worked with in a local studio told me this piece of advice and it holds true even more so todayL

how do you make a million bucks in the music (recording) biz ?

start with 2 million.
Yep, the old ones are the old ones!
Old 11th September 2019
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Doom64 said it perfectly with "It is difficult to sell services to someone that can do it themselves."

Abut six years ago, a recording studio here in the UK opened with a budget of £2m (c.a. $3.3m). Steinway grand, two live rooms, PT-HD, Two RN desks, three studios, loads of backline and other instruments.

They are located in a city with a catchment area of about 2m, there is no other comparable studio in that area and it acts as a sort of regional media hub for TV and radio. There must be about a thousand bands in that city, all gigging, some quite successfully too.

1st yr turnover £54,000
2nd yr turnover £45,000
3rd yr turnover £32,000

After that, it was between £20k and £30k p.a. Those figures are not net profit. Those figures are not even gross profit. That is total turnover. Acts come in for a day, two days, maybe a week, but that's it.

That is less than the depreciation on the equipment!

The place keeps going because the guy who owns it gets money from his father. Without that money-hose, the place would be gone in a few days! If you want to run a conventional studio, get yourself a money-hose.

Either that or diversify! Location recording, video services, music school, something!

"What's that King Friday? You don't know how to diversify? And you don't have a money-hose? And Lady Elaine doesn't have a money-hose either? Well, we're going to have to get onto the magic trolley to the Neighbourhood of Make-Belive. That's where studios are still recording rock bands and earning money!"
This is just sad :(. I've been thinking a lot about this stuff lately -- I guess it goes in phases. For me, if it weren't for a few big clients, I suppose I would have closed shop a while ago. Renting some of my spaces out to independent producers/engineers is the other 'passive income' portion that has kept me afloat.

To be fair though - studio owners have always had 'money-hose's' as you say. The major difference between then and now though, is that it seems the ratio for money needed to maintain the studio versus what it makes is incredibly askew.

-Neil
Old 11th September 2019
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilvg View Post
This is just sad :(. I've been thinking a lot about this stuff lately -- I guess it goes in phases. For me, if it weren't for a few big clients, I suppose I would have closed shop a while ago. Renting some of my spaces out to independent producers/engineers is the other 'passive income' portion that has kept me afloat.

To be fair though - studio owners have always had 'money-hose's' as you say. The major difference between then and now though, is that it seems the ratio for money needed to maintain the studio versus what it makes is incredibly askew.

-Neil
The production room model is definitely the way to keep a larger room afloat.

One big studio and a host of producer rooms is more financially efficient than several studios for rent - if you're in a big enough music centre.

It works both ways - on its own the bigger studio might not be profitable, but the smaller rooms are less desirable if they're isolated.

There's also at least one studio over here with a big live room that many smaller production spaces tie line into - which is another way of doing things!
Old 11th September 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
 
doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Doom64 said it perfectly with "It is difficult to sell services to someone that can do it themselves."

Abut six years ago, a recording studio here in the UK opened with a budget of £2m (c.a. $3.3m). Steinway grand, two live rooms, PT-HD, Two RN desks, three studios, loads of backline and other instruments.

They are located in a city with a catchment area of about 2m, there is no other comparable studio in that area and it acts as a sort of regional media hub for TV and radio. There must be about a thousand bands in that city, all gigging, some quite successfully too.

1st yr turnover £54,000
2nd yr turnover £45,000
3rd yr turnover £32,000

After that, it was between £20k and £30k p.a. Those figures are not net profit. Those figures are not even gross profit. That is total turnover. Acts come in for a day, two days, maybe a week, but that's it.

That is less than the depreciation on the equipment!

The place keeps going because the guy who owns it gets money from his father. Without that money-hose, the place would be gone in a few days! If you want to run a conventional studio, get yourself a money-hose.

Either that or diversify! Location recording, video services, music school, something!

"What's that King Friday? You don't know how to diversify? And you don't have a money-hose? And Lady Elaine doesn't have a money-hose either? Well, we're going to have to get onto the magic trolley to the Neighbourhood of Make-Belive. That's where studios are still recording rock bands and earning money!"
Wow, that is just awful to read this.

Back in 2015 (can't believe it's been that long!) when I was considering closing up shop, buying a large format console (to hopefully bring in more business) or to start a second business that more people needed, I also considered starting a trade school for audio engineering.

I gave all of these choices a lot of thought. I decided that making an audio school would be bad for my community because the jobs just aren't there. And if there was one thing I could do, it'd be to stop the flow of federal government money into audio engineering schools (including colleges/universities).

Between the very affordable audio interfaces and microphones (have you heard the Lewitt LCT 40? WOW!), free software and audio engineering students who work for free, a musician does not need to pay for recording services if they shop around in major urban/suburban areas.

They can either mix their recordings for free or find someone living in a third world country with internet access on Fiverr (and the like) to do it for pennies on the dollar.

My competition used to be just the local area and now it is virtually worldwide. That's true for everyone on this board too...our days are numbered. A GRAMMY nominated engineer doing a mix for $25: https://www.fiverr.com/beauvallis/as...d-74e0d4e863a6

Look at your competition: https://www.fiverr.com/categories/mu...xing-mastering
When you Google "music mixing service" who shows up at the top results? Fiverr.

That's 2019 for you. My only regret is not starting a second business sooner. And as I've said in previous threads, these days the studio feels more like a hobby. I still charge a fair price but I work harder on projects than what the customers are paying for. And that's fine by me because the bread winning business is doing great. No global competition and no one is going to do that work for free or for a low price.

Look at all of the top engineers giving seminars or who started up YouTube channels or sell their names to software companies. They're not doing that because business is booming. This is a tough, cut throat industry and it can be stressful. It's a boutique industry through and through.

Funnily enough, I am getting some audio mixing business from a lawyer. I'm cleaning up evidence audio so juries/judges can hear words more clearly. How did he find out about me? Through the second business!
Old 11th September 2019
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
Wow, that is just awful to read this.

Back in 2015 (can't believe it's been that long!) when I was considering closing up shop, buying a large format console (to hopefully bring in more business) or to start a second business that more people needed, I also considered starting a trade school for audio engineering.

I gave all of these choices a lot of thought. I decided that making an audio school would be bad for my community because the jobs just aren't there. And if there was one thing I could do, it'd be to stop the flow of federal government money into audio engineering schools (including colleges/universities).

Between the very affordable audio interfaces and microphones (have you heard the Lewitt LCT 40? WOW!), free software and audio engineering students who work for free, a musician does not need to pay for recording services if they shop around in major urban/suburban areas.
Very true, assuming they don't hear/care about a certain minimum quality.

I'm currently "mixing" (or more accurately "fixing" an EP. Having quoted to record and mix it, they got it recorded with a friend who was a uni student...I don't think I've ever had to work with worse recorded material in the last 10 years! Ideally I'd have turned it down, but instead I'm charging them for editing time. It'd probably have been cheaper to do it properly the first time...ah well.

I agree there's many who are better than this, and many who don't really care about the quality.


Quote:
My competition used to be just the local area and now it is virtually worldwide. That's true for everyone on this board too...our days are numbered. A GRAMMY nominated engineer doing a mix for $25: https://www.fiverr.com/beauvallis/as...d-74e0d4e863a6
That's typical of someone listing on Fivrr though - a guy sitting in front of a console that is neither theirs nor will touch your music. He's not a "Grammy nominated engineer" - he probably got a nom for assisting on an album or something, he wasn't a nominee for engineer of the year (my own nom was similar - I recorded one vocal on an album, and everyone got a nom!). He claims to have been an engineer for Pharrell, but he's got a couple of assistant credits:

https://jaxsta.com/profile/e9687fa5-...e799/catalogue

(a few of the boasts appear legit, but also lots of BS!).

And also - for a PROPER mix it's closer to AUS$300. Which is still desperation cheap, but it's getting towards a proper rate. The $25 mix is actually 4-stem mastering.

So yeah - people going to Fivrr for mixing aren't the serious engineer's competition - you didn't want those bottom feeder gigs anyway. Labels aren't using these guys, and the serious self funders aren't either. I'll concede there's a danger some people will use it as a benchmark, but to be honest Fivrr's been round a while now and I've not seen it impact anything for me or others in my situation.
Old 11th September 2019
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
My only regret is not starting a second business sooner.
Mind me asking what that second business is?

Interesting thread.
Old 11th September 2019
  #22
There is a studio in Cleveland that has a lot of engineers. According to their website their engineers have worked with some of the top names in entertainment. The catch is that they never state what their engineers did for the famous artist they claim to have worked for/with. They could have been guitar techs, synth techs, personal assistants, etc. just because you "worked with <insert name of famous music icon> doesn't mean that you were their recording engineer. A lot of hype going on today in the music business. If I listed all the top name entertainers I worked with over the years it would take three sheets of single spaced typing. But I was acting as a liaison for the local college and not as their mastering engineer or mix engineer so I don't put their names on my website.

As to the use of pictures. A lot of up and coming engineers seem to think it is OK to use someone else's studio pictures and claim them as their own. There was a person here in my town who put up some amazing pictures or this "studio" so I went and knocked on his door and told him who I was and that I had a mastering studio in town but would like to see his studio. He said it was not really a picture of what he had but what he would like to have in the future. His studio was his basement with rugs on the floor and walls. Not what it looked like on line. FWIW
Old 11th September 2019
  #23
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
There's also at least one studio over here with a big live room that many smaller production spaces tie line into - which is another way of doing things!
Yep.. this is our setup as well.

-Neil
Old 12th September 2019
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
There is a studio in Cleveland that has a lot of engineers. According to their website their engineers have worked with some of the top names in entertainment. The catch is that they never state what their engineers did for the famous artist they claim to have worked for/with. They could have been guitar techs, synth techs, personal assistants, etc. just because you "worked with <insert name of famous music icon> doesn't mean that you were their recording engineer. A lot of hype going on today in the music business. If I listed all the top name entertainers I worked with over the years it would take three sheets of single spaced typing. But I was acting as a liaison for the local college and not as their mastering engineer or mix engineer so I don't put their names on my website.

As to the use of pictures. A lot of up and coming engineers seem to think it is OK to use someone else's studio pictures and claim them as their own. There was a person here in my town who put up some amazing pictures or this "studio" so I went and knocked on his door and told him who I was and that I had a mastering studio in town but would like to see his studio. He said it was not really a picture of what he had but what he would like to have in the future. His studio was his basement with rugs on the floor and walls. Not what it looked like on line. FWIW
I’m with you there - if you don’t list a specific credit, it’s meaningless. In your situation, if you’re selling mastering and you didn’t master for them, you’re very right not to use it!

People also do things like claiming “Grammy nominated” or (over here) “ARIA winning” producer/engineer, because something they worked on got nominated or won. But they don’t get the trophy or the record; it doesn’t count (and it’s slightly demeaning to those who do!). Rant over
Old 12th September 2019
  #25
Deleted 5cc75a2
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
To be fair, the bottom had fallen out of the money side of the music industry long before spotify - if anything, streaming has improved some aspects of revenue - it's killed illegal downloading for a start!
indeed, but then sean parker and daniel ek both played significant, if not leading roles in the "long before spotify" falling out of the bottom. its how they made their initial multi-million dollar fortunes that funded precisely what we have today - their billion dollar fortunes.

illegal downloading has never been as easy or popular as it is today. there are countless multilingual apps available that instantly scour the internet for user search criteria and download the highest quality available, all completely anonymous and 100% money free. if anything, the streaming platform has centralized music databases making it easier than ever before for piracy of both personal use and for profit to take place. in reality, the wild west is wilder than ever.

sure, streaming is great for the tech ceos, major label execs and their manufactured coveted artists. theyre killing it where revenue is concerned. it has done absolutely nothing but boost the major label revenue while simultaneously devaluing and destroying the independent sector. and these companies continue to seek loopholes and ways to make a buck, skirt laws and devalue what little is left hanging on. music is an afterthought. to them, its all about the data. data = money and power. I could go on, but whats the point anymore, people, obviously including musicians who partake, just dont care. ****ing sad.
Old 12th September 2019
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 5cc75a2 View Post
indeed, but then sean parker and daniel ek both played significant, if not leading roles in the "long before spotify" falling out of the bottom. its how they made their initial multi-million dollar fortunes that funded precisely what we have today - their billion dollar fortunes.
Please provide alternate info if you have it but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ek says Ek made his money from the sale of his advertising agency, even if he was the CEO of muTorrent for a while.

Interestingly " Ek first had the idea for Spotify in 2002 when peer-to-peer music service Napster shut down and another illegal site Kazaa took over. Ek said he "realised that you can never legislate away from piracy. Laws can definitely help, but it doesn't take away the problem. The only way to solve the problem was to create a service that was better than piracy and at the same time compensates the music industry – that gave us Spotify.""

Which is what I've always said - humans respond to carrots, not sticks. If instead of Metallica suing mums whose kids were downloading, we had the iTunes store straight away, I feel piracy in the western world at least wouldn't have been such a killer.

(It's a bit less clear for Sean Parker - sure he's definitely responsible in part for Napster, but it's unlikely that's where he made his money, at least in its entirety! Given his philanthropy, I'd also be inclined to give him a bit of a pass there...he's certainly made some significant contributions to positivity).

Quote:
illegal downloading has never been as easy or popular as it is today. there are countless multilingual apps available that instantly scour the internet for user search criteria and download the highest quality available, all completely anonymous and 100% money free. if anything, the streaming platform has centralized music databases making it easier than ever before for piracy of both personal use and for profit to take place. in reality, the wild west is wilder than ever.
I'm sure there are, but my point is - kids who at one point were illegally downloading the music they wanted to listen to now will stream from Youtube, or spotify, 100% legally (and in theory compensated). You can't seriously be claiming that the same people using Napster and Kazaa are using these apps in the same numbers, as opposed to the easy option? I don't know why anyone would even WANT to download if it's always on demand!

Quote:
sure, streaming is great for the tech ceos, major label execs and their manufactured coveted artists. theyre killing it where revenue is concerned. it has done absolutely nothing but boost the major label revenue while simultaneously devaluing and destroying the independent sector. and these companies continue to seek loopholes and ways to make a buck, skirt laws and devalue what little is left hanging on. music is an afterthought. to them, its all about the data. data = money and power. I could go on, but whats the point anymore, people, obviously including musicians who partake, just dont care. ****ing sad.
There's definitely a negative side for the indie artist. There's also a positive side as I've said before. Discovery and promotion is easier and cheaper than ever before - I know indie artists who've had 6m+ plays on a single song, and opportunities because of that. How did THAT happen before streaming? not through selling CDs at gigs! "absolutely nothing but..." is nonsense.

You won't find me arguing that major labels are the good guys in all of this, but your opinion of them is also very one-sided and to a point misguided - take that as someone who's seen the inside of a lot of meetings and off the record chats to people who take these decisions! It's easy to be bitter, but that doesn't make you correct.
Old 12th September 2019
  #27
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa View Post
Mind me asking what that second business is?

Interesting thread.
I've never really talked about it on here so don't laugh...beauty salon and supplies.
Old 12th September 2019
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
I've never really talked about it on here so don't laugh...beauty salon and supplies.
No laugh at all. I can see a huge demand for your endeavours. Business success is a very satisfying thing.
Old 12th September 2019
  #29
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doom64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa View Post
No laugh at all. I can see a huge demand for your endeavours. Business success is a very satisfying thing.
Thanks, Mike! It's certainly different than running a recording/mixing studio business.

I don't run the day to day operations but do minor maintenance/cleaning a few times per week, usually when the shop is closed.
Old 12th September 2019
  #30
Deleted 5cc75a2
Guest
classic deflection and smoke and mirrors right there. anyone defending either of those pirate crooks, and by definition that is precisely what they are, I seriously question their motives.

as a professional in the music making business, of course I am bitter, but that does not negate any of my correctness. everything i said is publicly documented fact. saying and believing otherwise is turning a blind eye and living in denial. again, I seriously question the agenda at work here.

we as a society enthusiastically allowed the crooks into our homes with open arms. piracy made it free. streaming made it free. free is good, right? the two combined, we have what he have today. but hey, today we live in a world where nobody cares (so long as they get theirs), so its par for the course. we made our bed...
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