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Ridiculously high priced Gear
Old 14th August 2019
  #1
Ridiculously high priced Gear

Here's an example: Elysia Alpha Compressor at $10,500. One compressor that costs $10,500! I refuse to believe that this thing is that much greater than any other compressor. Even if it was judged by all to be the best compressor ever made, is any compressor really worth over 10 grand?
Old 14th August 2019
  #2
JAT
Lives for gear
It is if it helps bring in big paying clients so you can charge $1000 a day rather than $500. It is silly, sound wise, it isn’t 20 X better than this comp or 5 X that comp, tho it may do several jobs much better. But people still by jags, even tho they don’t work as well as my old Jeep out on the ranch
Old 14th August 2019
  #3
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monkeyxx's Avatar
It might help if you look at the price of other typical high end mastering gear. It's all really f*cking expensive.
Old 14th August 2019
  #4
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAT View Post
It is if it helps bring in big paying clients so you can charge $1000 a day rather than $500.
That’s just not how it works in real life.

That Alpha comp exists because it’s worth it to enough people. The OP is obviously not one of them, and neither are most who post on these forums. I don’t see why anyone has a reason to complain, especially since PA sells the plugin for $49 on sale.
Old 14th August 2019
  #5
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
It might help if you look at the price of other typical high end mastering gear. It's all really f*cking expensive.
Once the potentiometers get replaced with highly accurate switches, the price skyrockets.
Old 14th August 2019
  #6
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XAXAU's Avatar
 

Vacuvox U23 at €18000 for a pair
Old 14th August 2019
  #7
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAT View Post
it isn’t 20 X better than this comp or 5 X that comp, tho it may do several jobs much better.
But of course, "20X" better is not the point. It has never been the point. It's about diminishing returns. If you want 5% better you may need 100% more money. By now, you would think that anyone who works in audio (or really any other technical field) should have learned that price/performance ratios are not linear. The closer you get to the bleeding edge, a small increase in performance costs a lot more.

a Ferrari costs 5x as much as a Corvette but only goes 15 mph faster. And of course, pure speed is only one measure of 'performance'. Which car does a better job of attracting supermodels?

Quote:
But people still by jags, even tho they don’t work as well as my old Jeep out on the ranch
Yes there is also the appropriateness of the tool. It's hard to fit a heifer in the back seat of the jag, even with the top down.

The only thing this thread is still missing is a 'petition' to the manufacturers, telling them how they would sell "so many more" units if they only dropped the price. They could make it up in Volume!
Old 14th August 2019
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post

The only thing this thread is still missing is a 'petition' to the manufacturers, telling them how they would sell "so many more" units if they only dropped the price. They could make it up in Volume!
..and then mass production in Asia, and using cheaper, and crappier components, and making short cuts in design
..all in the name of cashing in on the almighty dollar. There’s no shortage of those companies around.


Some of the best stuff is hand built, attention to detail, etc..
Most times, you get what you pay for, ..or sometimes, can find the outlier that’s
above it’s worth.

Knif stuff for example. https://knifaudio.com/
If I ever hit my numbers, I’d get 2 of everything Jonte makes.
Lots of really good gear available that’s affordable, ..but can plan to pay a premium for top tier.
Old 14th August 2019
  #9
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deuc647's Avatar
Dare I say: D.W Fearn VT-1
Old 14th August 2019
  #10
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
If you want 5% better you may need 100% more money. By now, you would think that anyone who works in audio (or really any other technical field) should have learned that price/performance ratios are not linear. The closer you get to the bleeding edge, a small increase in performance costs a lot more.
thats very true. small improvements can cost a lot of money.

whats important, is that it sounds better.

Professional Recording Studios (in the Past) were never about cheep solutions.

Multi Millions of dollars invested in many of them.

Buddha
Old 16th August 2019
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
Dare I say: D.W Fearn VT-1
Thats a good question

I own the vt-2, my only high end pre and feel like i made a good deal
Old 16th August 2019
  #12
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are we forgetting the Midas 501 mic pre?
Old 16th August 2019
  #13
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TexasCat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
That’s just not how it works in real life.

That Alpha comp exists because it’s worth it to enough people. The OP is obviously not one of them, and neither are most who post on these forums. I don’t see why anyone has a reason to complain, especially since PA sells the plugin for $49 on sale.
Sorry to get off topic but this is why I take plugin emulations with a grain of salt.

Does anyone really think a $10,500 pc of gear can be emulated by a $49 plugin?
Old 16th August 2019
  #14
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCat View Post
Sorry to get off topic but this is why I take plugin emulations with a grain of salt.

Does anyone really think a $10,500 pc of gear can be emulated by a $49 plugin?
Not to get into a hardware vs plugin debate, but attempting to correlate the price of a piece of hardware and the price of software and their relative quality to one another is kind of pointless. The price of hardware will always be substantially higher because of parts and labor, whereas the main overhead in software is the research and development.
Old 16th August 2019
  #15
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCat View Post
Sorry to get off topic but this is why I take plugin emulations with a grain of salt.

Does anyone really think a $10,500 pc of gear can be emulated by a $49 plugin?
Where did I say the plugin sounds exactly like the hardware? Even at the full price of $250, that’s 2.5% of the price of the hardware. The plugin certainly gets you more than 2.5% of the way there. The point of my post was to show it’s silly to whine about the price of high-end hardware. The point of yours was the be a jerk and put words in my mouth.
Old 16th August 2019
  #16
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TexasCat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adampaulson1217 View Post
Not to get into a hardware vs plugin debate, but attempting to correlate the price of a piece of hardware and the price of software and their relative quality to one another is kind of pointless. The price of hardware will always be substantially higher because of parts and labor, whereas the main overhead in software is the research and development.
I get that and generally agree but I think digital should do what digital does best and analog should do what analog does best.

Emulations to me seem like a waste of effort and marketing gimmick. Plugins that interest me are one's that use digital's strengths an do their own thing.

Sorry again to get off topic...

I'd like to hear this thing. For that kind of coin you'd think the design of it left no stone unturned.
Old 16th August 2019
  #17
Gear Addict
 
TexasCat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
Where did I say the plugin sounds exactly like the hardware? Even at the full price of $250, that’s 2.5% of the price of the hardware. The plugin certainly gets you more than 2.5% of the way there. The point of my post was to show it’s silly to whine about the price of high-end hardware. The point of yours was the be a jerk and put words in my mouth.
You didn't say that and that was not my intention at all. It just caught my attention and my comment was completely off topic and based on one of my pet peeves.

No offense meant.
Old 16th August 2019
  #18
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
Don’t you find it ironic that part of why the Alpha is so expensive is because it’s got analog implementations of features (M/S processing, parallel compression) that are much simpler to pull off in the digital realm and have become desirable and even expected features on many plugins? Plugin Alliance in particular and others add those features to hardware emulations that don’t originally have them.
Old 16th August 2019
  #19
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deuc647's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oranzil View Post
Thats a good question

I own the vt-2, my only high end pre and feel like i made a good deal
Oh its a great preamp, just dont really know if its worth what they ask for it.
Old 16th August 2019
  #20
Gear Addict
 
audiospecific's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates View Post
Here's an example: Elysia Alpha Compressor at $10,500. One compressor that costs $10,500! I refuse to believe that this thing is that much greater than any other compressor. Even if it was judged by all to be the best compressor ever made, is any compressor really worth over 10 grand?
Its more than just a compressor, and stuff like the controls cost $$$. $500 easily could have been spent on the control potentiometers and knobs alone.
Old 16th August 2019
  #21
Here for the gear
 
Master_Splinter's Avatar
 

All gear has a price, its not just the components but research and development that goes into it and forecast sales numbers.

Shadow Hill Mastering Compressor, Undertone Audio Unfairchild, Analogue Tubes are classic, high end bits of kit at around $10-$15000 and now things like the McDSP APB are coming it at just under $10000.

If equipment like this is being made, there is a market for it. I've used the Undertone and the McDSP and both are fantastic products.

Maybe try a couple of bits of really high end gear, im sure you'll be convinced its not all hyperbole.

Just my tuppence.
Old 16th August 2019
  #22
Gear Addict
 
TexasCat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
Don’t you find it ironic that part of why the Alpha is so expensive is because it’s got analog implementations of features (M/S processing, parallel compression) that are much simpler to pull off in the digital realm and have become desirable and even expected features on many plugins? Plugin Alliance in particular and others add those features to hardware emulations that don’t originally have them.
I agree and that's one of the reason's that plugin emulations are a pet peeve of mine.

I wish plugin developers would just focus on what the new technology brings to the table. We've got enough emulations already, it's time to move on.
Old 16th August 2019
  #23
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Oldone's Avatar
At the top of this industry are people who want to maximize their time. If a few single pieces of gear can bring the sound, it's less time required to tweak. Fast results that pay maximum dollars. I think that it's more than worth it. It's also a competitive limit for that type of sound. My opinion.
Old 16th August 2019
  #24
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audiospecific's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
Don’t you find it ironic that part of why the Alpha is so expensive is because it’s got analog implementations of features (M/S processing, parallel compression) that are much simpler to pull off in the digital realm and have become desirable and even expected features on many plugins? Plugin Alliance in particular and others add those features to hardware emulations that don’t originally have them.
A high quality limiter/clipper circuit will cost you money. But I would try to get a used Orban because it would be cheaper. But even them are in the $10K-$12K range too (brand new).
Old 16th August 2019
  #25
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post

a Ferrari costs 5x as much as a Corvette but only goes 15 mph faster. And of course, pure speed is only one measure of 'performance'. Which car does a better job of attracting supermodels?
Depends on your taste in supermodels . . .

________________

I think there a pride of ownership issue here as well. You could spend, say, $4500 on a comp that does essentially what the Elysia does. But. The build quality on the expensive unit is probably to the level where virtually nothing ever goes wrong with it. That kind of dependability is essential for high end houses. And then there's just the joy (yes, "joy", from the audiophile's point of view!) of having a serious piece of gear, one made with pride and those extra touches that set it apart.
Old 16th August 2019
  #26
Lives for gear
I see stuff for sale at KMR here in the UK, mics £7k - £9K - compressors £3k - £6K and on and on - single peices for well over £5K.

I thought I wonder who's buying this gear - I bet it's not mainly professionals!
Old 16th August 2019
  #27
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCat View Post
I
I'd like to hear this thing. For that kind of coin you'd think the design of it left no stone unturned.
I would love to hear it too. But I think it partly depends on what you are used to. From where I sit, (in the "middle-end") something that turns 990 "stones" out of 1000 will probably sound just as good to me. If I was used to using the "99%" gear every day, maybe I would be better able to hear the "99.9%" as an improvement.

There are also technical aspects. As Drumsound said, switches instead of potentiometers, really exact matching between channels, stability over long use or different temperatures, all might be really important to a mastering engineer, and less so to someone who is just recording and mixing. These kinds of things might manifest themselves not as a "wow" factor, but as something that, if it were missing, would be somewhat detrimental.
Old 16th August 2019
  #28
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates View Post
Here's an example: Elysia Alpha Compressor at $10,500. One compressor that costs $10,500! I refuse to believe that this thing is that much greater than any other compressor. Even if it was judged by all to be the best compressor ever made, is any compressor really worth over 10 grand?
it is not cheap to make gear like this.
Old 16th August 2019
  #29
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I don’t have enough oil wells to participate in this discussion.
Old 16th August 2019
  #30
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T_R_S's Avatar
The price/value of any piece is what people are willing to pay. Back in mid 80s U47’s would go for3-4.K I have personally seen people pay 20K recently I sold a Fairchild 670 for almost 50K to a guy that had a private studio that already owned one. We ended up going for 2 x UTA 670’s totally worth it to me but to others they maybe over priced 2 pieces I can think of as well is a SSL FX384 I have seen them go for over 3K OTH BSS DPR402 are a way better compressor and they go for $300.00 but BSS does not have the “cache” of the SSL go figure
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