The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Oberheim back in business again
Old 20th July 2019
  #61
Lives for gear
 

Good times. Long live OB
Old 20th July 2019
  #62
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
Isn't that - in your case - in part due to you already having those "the past" bases covered with another clone-y thing fron another company, via your Studio Electronics rack "mini moog" with swappable filter cartridges? Don't you have one of those? Seems hardly different from what Behringer is doing, no?
No way. I do have that clone-y thing, but the most important part of that sentence is the -y part. It’s not a clone. It’s got 512 memory slots. Two LFOs! One even syncs to a MIDI clock! Three EGs! FM, RM, velocity, aftertouch, etc. If there’s a vintage synth, or even a modern clone that’s got a spec sheet like that, let me know. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

That’s exactly my point. Studio Electronics nails the tone (IMO) but then adds enough modern technology to make things interesting. Uli is nailing the tone but mostly stopping there.
Old 20th July 2019
  #63
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
For sure.

I have no doubts they wish it had gone differently back then. I just think it's important to point out in these continual Little Guy vs Big Evil Corporations themes that comes up around here often that it's not like the Big Bad Whomever caused Oberheim to need to sell back then. Tom and crew made some choices, some didn't work, and it ultimately failed, in a business sense, and he chose to sell. No one took it. He wasn't wronged. He failed, back then, not as a synth designer but in business.

Happens often, sadly.

And I agree, definitely a nice and unnecessary gesture on the part of Yamaha and Gibson.

I read a book a long time ago... I forget the name it of... it was great, anyway, it was about Moog, Smith and Perlman, but not in the sense that it talked about their instruments, but instead about their businesses. My take-a-way about it was... they were brilliant instrument designers, but crappy business people. I totally get that, I struggle because I have no mindset for business. Companies like Roland, Korg and Yamaha ate their lunch because they were good at making synths and good at business.

I have one anecdote about Bob Moog that I think covers this. I was at the premier of the Theremin movie in Ithaca, NY. He did a little talk afterwards and did some Q&A. One of the questions (probably from a Cornell student, as it was being shown on their campus) was if Big Briar was ever going to do a MIDI Theremin controller. You may have thought someone told ol’ Bob that his synths were made of poop by his reaction. He went on a long “get-off-my-lawn” rant about the beauty of a pure analog signal controlled with your body and then on an off topic rant about how samples lacked the ability to express emotion because of their “canned” nature.

Honestly, I felt more than a little sad for him. He seemed so zealously tied to his past that he never stopped to consider if the future could provide interesting ways by which musicians could express themselves. I know Moog had a resurgence and embraced a lot of digital technology. Hell, Big Briar even did make a MIDI controller. I wonder who got to him and made him rethink his stance. I think that’s kind of crucial for any synth developer. Dave Smith gets it. Does Tom Oberheim? Maybe. Regardless, if he were just to continue releasing his current synths, I think there are enough fans who don’t care about advances in technology that he’ll do OK, though I think he will be hurt by Behringer if he doesn’t provide something beyond his original designs.
Old 20th July 2019
  #64
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by LettingDaysGoBy View Post
There is a company working on a quantum synth.The oscillators are entangled and in superposition, The knobs will probably do something, but you can't really be sure.
In theory, strings are like analog waves. Waves = oscillators.

These energy waves materialize at "peaks", which we perceive as particles at certain discrete quantum levels -- digital.



In a partially closed space, or in an echo chamber like a forum, certain standing waves get reinforced -- resonance, sometimes noise.

Waves can have harmonic nodes. These are also peaks. When peaks / harmonics simultaneously materialize at remote nodes on that string, you observe quantum entanglement. Spooky feedback at a distance.



As for knobs, both manufacturers and customers are full of them, but you can't really be sure who are knobs, which are sliders. Most of us are just buttons on a big capitalist board. We see the world through rose-colored displays.



Sequential and Oberheim are the emergent properties of that board, where brand stands in for philosophical approach. Like with most contending philosophies, many flame wars ensue in pursuit of one over the other.

Old 20th July 2019
  #65
Lives for gear
 
gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Somewhere in a parallel universe , Roland is giving the behringer name back to uli
Old 20th July 2019
  #66
Lives for gear
Here's Tom in a NAMM 2005 interview. He uses one of my favorite words "grok"

https://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/tom-oberheim
Old 20th July 2019
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
satatek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
Somewhere in a parallel universe , Roland is giving the behringer name back to uli
Somewhere is parallel universe Behringer never entered synth market
Old 20th July 2019
  #68
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
All you need to do to avoid competition from Uli is to make something new.
Moog did that with the Mother 32 and Behringer is cloning it. (Of course there’s always debate about how “new” something is in this market)
Old 20th July 2019
  #69
Lives for gear
 
Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_synth View Post
Moog did that with the Mother 32 and Behringer is cloning it. (Of course there’s always debate about how “new” something is in this market)
With logic like this applied M32 was a 303 clone.
Old 20th July 2019
  #70
Gear Nut
 

I suppose Gibson had to do something good to mitigate their recent PR blunder.
Old 20th July 2019
  #71
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_synth View Post
Moog did that with the Mother 32 and Behringer is cloning it. (Of course there’s always debate about how “new” something is in this market)
What exactly was so new and ground breaking about the Mother 32?

It's yet another analog monosynth from Moog with the same handful of waveforms and a ladder filer.
Old 20th July 2019
  #72
Gear Maniac
 

I'm not obligated to debate the wumao .
Old 20th July 2019
  #73
Gear Maniac
 

beautiful. tom is an unsung genius. ob's deserve to be made and loved forever.
Old 20th July 2019
  #74
Lives for gear
 
daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cramse View Post
I suppose Gibson had to do something good to mitigate their recent PR blunder.
Singular?
Old 20th July 2019
  #75
Lives for gear
 
shreddoggie's Avatar
Nothing is 'voluntary - the workings of our current system should be a validation of that. i pity anyone who fails to see this - or 'voluntarily' chooses not to.

also: T to the mutha freakin O dog!
Old 20th July 2019
  #76
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
What exactly was so new and ground breaking about the Mother 32?

It's yet another analog monosynth from Moog with the same handful of waveforms and a ladder filer.
When it was released it was kind of groundbreaking.



Why did ya boy Uli clone it and then put the sequencer in all new products if it's just the same old hat from Moog?
Old 20th July 2019
  #77
Lives for gear
 
Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
When it was released it was kind of groundbreaking.
Lol no, it wasnt.

Its not groundbreaking when you call your venture into Eurorack "Mother 32 eco-system" ... still deserves facepalming.
Old 20th July 2019
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Lol no, it wasnt.

Its not groundbreaking when you call your venture into Eurorack "Mother 32 eco-system" ... still deserves facepalming.
groundbreaking was the price .. 700.- for a one OSC synth made in Asia.
what interests me more .. why does "FLEET CAPITAL CORPORATION, AS AGENT" have the name rights to oberheim too?

https://trademarks.justia.com/owners...-agent-125491/
Old 20th July 2019
  #79
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I have one anecdote about Bob Moog that I think covers this. I was at the premier of the Theremin movie in Ithaca, NY. He did a little talk afterwards and did some Q&A. One of the questions (probably from a Cornell student, as it was being shown on their campus) was if Big Briar was ever going to do a MIDI Theremin controller. You may have thought someone told ol’ Bob that his synths were made of poop by his reaction. He went on a long “get-off-my-lawn” rant about the beauty of a pure analog signal controlled with your body and then on an off topic rant about how samples lacked the ability to express emotion because of their “canned” nature.
I think he's spot on with his description of samples. Even more so on a Theramin sound which has very smooth and wide pitch changes.
Old 20th July 2019
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Lol no, it wasnt.

Its not groundbreaking when you call your venture into Eurorack "Mother 32 eco-system" ... still deserves facepalming.


Wateva Hans.
Old 20th July 2019
  #81
Lives for gear
 
gruvsyco's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
what interests me more .. why does "FLEET CAPITAL CORPORATION, AS AGENT" have the name rights to oberheim too?

https://trademarks.justia.com/owners...-agent-125491/
Follow your own link. Cancelled 2007-05-12
Old 20th July 2019
  #82
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
When it was released it was kind of groundbreaking.



Why did ya boy Uli clone it and then put the sequencer in all new products if it's just the same old hat from Moog?
What exactly was so ground breaking about a monosynth with just one oscillator and a 32 step sequencer? Korg gives you 3oscs in a Volca Bass for example along with a step sequencer for $400 less

It's a simple design that should have sold for 1/3rd the price.

How many times can Moog go to the same well with monosynths and a ladder filter? Maybe next year at NAMM they will give us the Mother 32 Lime Green Edition it's exactly the same only with Lime Green paint. Then for Moog Fest 2020 they will give us the limited edition "Tangerine M32" not for Tangerine Dream fans, but with Tangerine Paint.

Before long they will have all the colors of the 1999 iMacs. Then they can discontinue them all only to come out with the Walnut Edition.

It's an easy basic design that should have sold for way less. That gives Uli an opening he wisely took advantage of.
Old 20th July 2019
  #83
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruvsyco View Post
Follow your own link. Cancelled 2007-05-12
ah now i see it too ... is the name a hiking cup ..
the past history fits in well with that ..


"By May 1985, Oberheim Electronics was struggling and became ECC/Oberheim, owned by Oberheim's ex-lawyer. Later that same year, the Oberheim name was sold to Gibson Guitar Company. Tom Oberheim departed the company two years later and filed a lawsuit against his ex-lawyer for legal malpractice"

BANK OF AMERICA, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION also had rights to it ..
behringer as far as it is ... has canceled the action ..
Old 20th July 2019
  #84
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
What exactly was so ground breaking about a monosynth with just one oscillator and a 32 step sequencer? Korg gives you 3oscs in a Volca Bass for example along with a step sequencer for $400 less

It's a simple design that should have sold for 1/3rd the price.

How many times can Moog go to the same well with monosynths and a ladder filter? Maybe next year at NAMM they will give us the Mother 32 Lime Green Edition it's exactly the same only with Lime Green paint. Then for Moog Fest 2020 they will give us the limited edition "Tangerine M32" not for Tangerine Dream fans, but with Tangerine Paint.

Before long they will have all the colors of the 1999 iMacs. Then they can discontinue them all only to come out with the Walnut Edition.

It's an easy basic design that should have sold for way less. That gives Uli an opening he wisely took advantage of.
I'm sure when you get a Crave and play with it a while you will understand better.

Volca Bass is great but very different.
Old 20th July 2019
  #85
Gear Maniac
 

Interesting comment from Reddit:

Quote:
For those who don't know, Music Tribe (the parent company of Behringer) attempted to get the USPTO to invalidate Gibson's "Oberheim" trademark and register it as their own, claiming that it had fallen into disuse. They also attempted to register the classic Oberheim "note" logo. It looks like Gibson prevailed and has done the right thing by returning the name to Tom, so he can *finally* use it on the gear he manufactures.
And people here think they would partner.
Old 20th July 2019
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
He will partner with Uli and sell the Trademark to Behringer
<rimshot>
Old 20th July 2019
  #87
Lives for gear
 
Synth Buddha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_synth View Post
Interesting comment from Reddit:



And people here think they would partner.
Behringer is only doing things like that to be nice to Gearslutz members, though. They're all about making friends, not money.
Old 20th July 2019
  #88
Lives for gear
 

Man. The tribalism sucks..

Do you know what @ uli and his people do better than most? All of the business and manufacturing and parts procurement expertise that the rest of the small companies continually struggle with.

Consequently, and somewhat ironically, the same exact kinds of things that caused Tom Oberheim to struggle and sell the name in the first place.

Infrastructure wise - Oberheim could hardly do better than to partner with Behringer @ uli or anyone with similar capabilities. Someone has to make them. I don't care as long as some one does.
Old 20th July 2019
  #89
Lives for gear
 
apessino's Avatar
Awesome news for one of the most deserving legends of electronic instrument design - I really hope this will reinvigorate Tom and give him incentive to resume making new products!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Lol no, it wasnt.

Its not groundbreaking when you call your venture into Eurorack "Mother 32 eco-system" ... still deserves facepalming.
I guess when "well, then X should have done it themselves!" or "maybe X should not charge so much for it!" cannot be used, the rationalization for shameless ripoffs becomes "hey, it was not that unique in the first place!"

Not that it even matters, but the M32 was novel not in its audio architecture, but in the way it integrated desktop form factor, semi-modular sequencing and Euro rack - the user experience is where most of the development work goes, combined with the cost/risk of testing the result to audiences. That's why it was successful, and that's why it found its own corner of the market.

Which is the one and only reason for B to carbon copy it instead of developing their own workflow, since the Crave has nothing to do with the M32 sonically. It is not "inspired by," and it's not an evolution or a further development of a concept... it is a ripoff, plain and simple.

Their whole business model is built around IP theft and constantly testing the limits of international protection laws. They will go as far as they can get away with.

Not seeing just how damaging to the industry this is going to be in the long run is what's worth facepalming about.
Old 20th July 2019
  #90
Lives for gear
 

oh the world is evil and full of steroids ..
I hope theremins descendants sue all ..
in the meantime, we enjoy and the great synths that would have never existed without gibson



thanks gibson ..
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump