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Why is Behringer able to produce reissues Roland cant?
Old 15th March 2019
  #1
Lives for gear
Why is Behringer able to produce reissues Roland cant?

Roland is a bigger company, both manufacture in China etc.. so why is it Roland can only offer reissues that are just Softsynths in a box and Behringer for about the same money release reissues based on the actual analog circuit design?

Roland actually owns the designs so for them its even easier for them to reissue instruments based on past designs where as Behringer has to do more work to do so and they can.

Where did Roland go wrong? Did they misread the market and figured throwing some **** VA psuedo reissue as a Boutique good enough for the unwashed masses and were caught off guard by Behringer?

Something seriously went wrong at Roland to be in this situation.
Old 15th March 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Exactly, could Roland do it? Sure, but they don’t want to live in the past. Anyway it’s their loss
Old 15th March 2019
  #3
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kuasalogam's Avatar
Roland can, but don't want to. Seems like it isn't their businness model.
Old 15th March 2019
  #4
Gear Head
What's baffling is that writing software emulations that are as good as Roland's are, is quite a bit harder than just reissueing the original machines.
Old 15th March 2019
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
Roland is a bigger company,
Is Roland a bigger company? More famous name in keyboards, but Behringer makes way way more products. Remember Behringer is Music Group which owns quite a few brands.
Old 15th March 2019
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Behringer haven't shipped anything yet.
Old 15th March 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
Where did Roland go wrong? Did they misread the market and figured throwing some **** VA psuedo reissue as a Boutique good enough for the unwashed masses and were caught off guard by Behringer?
I think its comments like these that show there's a lot of consumers who are more out of touch than Roland.

The Boutiques were clearly not representative of what Roland are trying to do whereas the Cloud, TR8S & System 8 are.

Plus who said Roland can't?
Old 15th March 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
Exactly, could Roland do it? Sure, but they don’t want to live in the past. Anyway it’s their loss
But they are putting out reissues, you say live in the past so then why did they put out all those Boutique VA reissues?

Why ignore a market willing to pay you for a reissue made right?
That excuse does not work. I think they just tried to really cheap out and produced one cheap board to slap in all the different models and call it a day.
Old 15th March 2019
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haze015 View Post
I think its comments like these that show there's a lot of consumers who are more out of touch than Roland.

The Boutiques were clearly not representative of what Roland are trying to do whereas the Cloud, TR8S & System 8 are.

Plus who said Roland can't?
So Roland wants to leave money on the table and continue to issue VAs in a box. Why as a company leave money on the table? They cant or they would have already.
Old 15th March 2019
  #10
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pr0gr4m's Avatar
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Companies move forward or they die.
You should not be looking at this as Roland "Can't". You should look at this as Roland has "Been there. Done that...NEXT!"
Sure there is some demand for these previously created devices. Sure there are some products that have been manufactured for decades without change (e.g. Alesis SR-16 or Korg microKorg) but those are rare.

Apply your same question to auto manufacturers. If Jaguar just made more E-types, they would probably sell 10s of thousands of them. But they don't. Instead they (sadly) move forward with their design/development/production and let other companies fill the demand. Eagle makes them and fills the demand, and they are gorgeous and sell for big bucks and are actually better than the originals. But I don't expect Jaguar to make that car from the 60s. That would be a ridiculous expectation.
Same with Porsche. They don't make the same old Porsche they used to make, but other companies do and they are amazing.
Granted, both of those examples are more than just recreations as they are entirely better, stronger, faster than the originals. But still, it illustrates the point that companies don't generally rehash the past. They try to make new and better things.

Check your expectations. Don't act like because you expect something from Roland, that they "went wrong" in some way, shape or form.
Old 15th March 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
But they are putting out reissues, you say live in the past so then why did they put out all those Boutique VA reissues?

Why ignore a market willing to pay you for a reissue made right?
That excuse does not work. I think they just tried to really cheap out and produced one cheap board to slap in all the different models and call it a day.
This has already been discussed here multiple times. They will not do straight analogue reissues because they believe it’s old technology and living in the past. They will do forward thinking digital reinventions because they believe it’s the future. You could easily search this in the search function.

So, could they? Of course, but will they? No
Old 15th March 2019
  #12
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pr0gr4m's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
So Roland wants to leave money on the table and continue to issue VAs in a box. Why as a company leave money on the table? They cant or they would have already.
Show us any factual evidence or proof that "Roland wants to leave money on the table"...otherwise you are just talking out of your ass.

And why does it have to be about money? Can't a company leave what they've done in the past, in the past and move forward?

Check your expectations...or start your own company.
Old 15th March 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
This has already been discussed here multiple times. They will not do straight analogue reissues because they believe it’s old technology and living in the past. They will do forward thinking digital reinventions because they believe it’s the future. You could easily search this in the search function.

So, could they? Of course, but will they? No
Thats like saying violins are old technology or acoustic guitars lets not make them anymore.

So if they are so forward thinking why are they producing poor digital VA knockoffs of the vintage instruments.

I think its all about the maximising profits by just using the same chip and software emulation across thier line. Roland will never admit that.

They DSI,Moog,Novation etc.. dont seem to have an issue selling Analog instruments.

And Waldorf is actually coming out with new ideas and products like the Quantum.

Where are these great innovative instruments by Roland? Looks like the Music group is gonna be making a ton of money servicing a market Roland is not capable of doing.
Old 15th March 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0gr4m View Post
Show us any factual evidence or proof that "Roland wants to leave money on the table"...otherwise you are just talking out of your ass.

And why does it have to be about money? Can't a company leave what they've done in the past, in the past and move forward?

Check your expectations...or start your own company.
Its obvious they dont care and are leaving money on the table. Thanks to Music group we will get the instruments that Roland refuses to make. Do you work for Roland?
Old 15th March 2019
  #15
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post

Where are these great innovative instruments by Roland? Looks like the Music group is gonna be making a ton of money servicing a market Roland is not capable of doing.
big innovation money with nothing to earn

Roland releases official TB-303 VST for 303 Day
Old 16th March 2019
  #16
Roland design new synths, Behringer reissue older, popular designs from other companies (and some new stuff).
Roland's technology is Virtual Analog, started with COSM (“Composite Object Sound Modeling”) and they're good at that. TR-8 and TR-8S are the go-to new professional drum machines. Their synths are less popular here, but I don't have an overall sales picture, so they might actually be doing fine without you or I knowing about it.
Try to get some hard sales facts, instead of popularity: It's very fleeting and often decided by a vocal minority.

The Roland and Moog bashing is a bit long in the tooth, IMO. It doesn't bring anything, and if you don't like something, why not simply talk about something you do like? It creates a much nicer, more productive atmosphere.
Old 16th March 2019
  #17
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
Roland design new synths, Behringer reissue older, popular designs from other companies (and some new stuff).
Roland's technology is Virtual Analog, started with COSM (“Composite Object Sound Modeling”) and they're good at that. TR-8 and TR-8S are the go-to new professional drum machines. Their synths are less popular here, but I don't have an overall sales picture, so they might actually be doing fine without you or I knowing about it.
Try to get some hard sales facts, instead of popularity: It's very fleeting and often decided by a vocal minority.

The Roland and Moog bashing is a bit long in the tooth, IMO. It doesn't bring anything, and if you don't like something, why not simply talk about something you do like? It creates a much nicer, more productive atmosphere.
I do not know if you can call the bashing, Roland has long had other interests.
The synth department is not exactly the most important department.
you may already ask Quo Vadis Roland.
In the meantime managers will ask the same question,the money is so lost ..
Old 16th March 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
I do not know if you can call the bashing, Roland has long had other interests.
The synth department is not exactly the most important department.
you may already ask Quo Vadis Roland.
In the meantime managers will ask the same question,the money is so lost ..
Its sad. Look at DSI they are doing well making great sounding Analog instruments they knew there is a big market of musicians who want something that has character and a history behind it. Moog music as well they are doing real well in the industry. Even Korg is producing great Analog instruments including some reissues of classics.
Old 16th March 2019
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
So Roland wants to leave money on the table and continue to issue VAs in a box. Why as a company leave money on the table? They cant or they would have already.
Who says they are leaving money on the table? A few clueless people on forums.
Old 16th March 2019
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
Its sad. Look at DSI they are doing well making great sounding Analog instruments they knew there is a big market of musicians who want something that has character and a history behind it. Moog music as well they are doing real well in the industry. Even Korg is producing great Analog instruments including some reissues of classics.
If Korg can do it, so can Roland. Just Roland have done something else and it appears to be working for them.
Old 16th March 2019
  #21
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by haze015 View Post
Who says they are leaving money on the table? A few clueless people on forums.
no pure logic .. the cake is not infinitely large .. and more people sitting at the table ... the rest you can imagine yourself.
Old 16th March 2019
  #22
dunno...I dont find the JDXA sad
Old 16th March 2019
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
dunno...I dont find the JDXA sad
The SE02 is truly fantastic as well.
Old 16th March 2019
  #24
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pr0gr4m's Avatar
Thread submitted for Moan Zone consideration. OP just wants to complain and be heard. Offers no logical argument, facts or proof behind his statements and is not open to other points of view.
Old 16th March 2019
  #25
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what does 'can't' have to do with it? they are using the namesakes to promote VA's and system 8 rigs. behringer has no innate instrument cred so they are building their rep. the analog clones are a better than the VAs. Roland has survived many instrument collapses and transitions from analog to digital to sampling to VA... they are choosing wisely. behringer has money to burn and a narcissistic front man to promote the sales pitch. i'll keep my original TR-808 and Jupiter 8. they are better than either.
Old 16th March 2019
  #26
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
But they are putting out reissues, you say live in the past so then why did they put out all those Boutique VA reissues?

Why ignore a market willing to pay you for a reissue made right?
That excuse does not work. I think they just tried to really cheap out and produced one cheap board to slap in all the different models and call it a day.
Roland , while not as inventive as a few decades ago , does not thrive on other companies achievements like behringer does .
And that's the stone cold truth

Hey ULI , if you don't like my comment
Sue me
Old 16th March 2019
  #27
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

The Moan Drone

Old 16th March 2019
  #28
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ranzee's Avatar
Why don't you write to Roland?

As for them not doing analog stuff - check JD-XA, JD-XI, SE-02 and their Modular 500 stuff. Yes some other manufacturers had a hand in that gear - but it still has the Roland badge on it.

I personally believe Roland are big on innovation - and who knows what they're cooking up over there in Japan. Korg are doing more of the analog stuff.

The whole AIRA range was vastly innovative and ground breaking - the MX-1 mixer is an amazing bit of gear for the price. The TR-8 is everywhere. There's your evidence.
Old 16th March 2019
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Roland hates you. Moog hates you unless you have a lot of money. Act accordingly.
Old 16th March 2019
  #30
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Replace "able to" with "hyping yet unable to", "can't" with "won't", and the title is legit.
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