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Is there really a big difference between synths? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 2 weeks ago
  #181
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Maison said a bit earlier, this is borderline trolling. I tend to agree.
Yeah, well, i kindof figured that out while writing, but i bit nevertheless.

Last edited by monomer; 2 weeks ago at 04:26 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #182
Gear Maniac
 

I'd love to see the day when adults are free to speak however they please without being nagged by the overly sensitive and tedious sorts.

Minding ones own business is a lost art, sadly.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #183
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkyLights View Post
Minding ones own business is a lost art, sadly.
Yah. Especially on public fora. Right? Right? Am i right?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #184
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Muser's Avatar
I'd timidly maybe go so far as to say, you might not be wrong
Old 2 weeks ago
  #185
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Yah. Especially on public fora. Right? Right? Am i right?
I don't know anyone who tries to correct how others speak while out in public, while shopping or at a concert or a thousand other things where people interact or cross paths, in public.

Whether in public, or private, people not minding their own business is a significant problem, far more than some perceived slight upon some other people who aren't even there at the time. The world doesn't need any more busybodies.

That, too, takes away from talking about synths.

Pot, meet kettle. Now go back to MYOB.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #186
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkyLights View Post
I don't know anyone who tries to correct how others speak while out in public, while shopping or at a concert or a thousand other things where people interact or cross paths, in public.

.
It happens all the time in public places.
Maybe everyone is super polite where you live ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #187
Gear Maniac
 

Nah, we just have much more important things to concern ourselves with, which is almost everything.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #188
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkyLights View Post
Nah, we just have much more important things to concern ourselves with, which is almost everything.
Sorry, don’t believe you. You can say what you like in private but every country I know of limits what you can say in public.
Not sure how you can think it’s not important.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #189
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
Sorry, don’t believe you. You can say what you like in private but every country I know of limits what you can say in public.
Not sure how you can think it’s not important.
If you recall, this ridiculous tangent started over the unasked question of whether or not Pikey is a pejorative slur that's somehow unacceptable, and to that point I'm absolutely certain that a detailed discussion on the relative merits of collecting toenail clippings as compared to collecting bellybutton lint is both more important and more thought provoking than the status of Pikey as a word.

And everywhere I've been (many, many places), there is almost nothing you can't say in public, and other random people correcting others in public is exceptionally rare and virtually never well received. The rest, as is almost always the case, purely subjective, and I've no time or patience for that.

Is there some literal limit, sure, I guess, but what we're talking about here (pointlessly, too) isn't even in that same hemisphere, and this idiotic tangent is nothing more than a waste of all of our time by a sensitive, meddling, busybody. I'm bored of it all.

If you'd like to discuss gear, let's do.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #190
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Muser's Avatar
the main reason why most people don't call someone a Pikey in public is often pretty simple.
it's usually because people tend to look better when their noses aren't broken.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #191
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
the main reason why most people don't call someone a Pikey in public is often pretty simple.
it's usually because people tend to look better when their noses aren't broken.
What ? , you mean the Pickeys are just over sensative medling busy bodies ?
How dare they tell people what they can’t say in public.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #192
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
the main reason why most people don't call someone a Pikey in public is often pretty simple.
it's usually because people tend to look better when their noses aren't broken.
Aww, it's so cute and endearing when people talk tough on the internet.

And no one here called anyone a Pikey or advocated doing so.

You guys are an amusing bunch.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #193
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkyLights View Post
Aww, it's so cute and endearing when people talk tough on the internet.

And no one here called anyone a Pikey or advocated doing so.

You guys are an amusing bunch.
I don’t think pointing out what someone else might do qualifies as talking tough. Not in this case anyway.
Now I really am thinking everyone must be super polite where you live.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #194
WDM
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WDM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
What ? , you mean the Pickeys are just over sensative medling busy bodies ?
How dare they tell people what they can’t say in public.
It's funny, but usually, the same people will allow themselves different "freedom of speech" depending of what public place they are in, also I've seen some people changed their tone and posture right in the middle of their Macho Man phrase, sensing "early feedback" from surrounding buddies.

The "bloody nose" rule works wonders
Old 2 weeks ago
  #195
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkyLights View Post
Aww, it's so cute and endearing when people talk tough on the internet.

And no one here called anyone a Pikey or advocated doing so.

You guys are an amusing bunch.
Apart from you, using it to describe accents... which was a post along the same lines as "there's only three kinds of American accent..." except, I ain't typing the three grossly stereotyped examples that popped into my head. Assume one accent is persecuted by the police, one accent may own the police, and the other accent likes grits and fried okra, then come up with an insulting term for each.

Suffice to say that it's got nowt to do with synths, or how they sound, and I welcome this and any related posts being deleted :D

Basically if someone threw the N-word into the thread, you MIGHT get why y'all said something offensive there.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #196
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkyLights View Post
I'm absolutely certain that a detailed discussion on the relative merits of collecting toenail clippings as compared to collecting bellybutton lint is both more important and more thought provoking than the status of Pikey as a word.
Soooo.. Analog or Digital toenail clippings?
And would you even hear the difference?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #197
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Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
What ? , you mean the Pickeys are just over sensative medling busy bodies ?
How dare they tell people what they can’t say in public.
I blame the john birch society. I think members must have become nostalgic about the time they didn't have to just rely on calling someone a pickey on their iPhone, and they could always rely on hearing it face to face in a pub. the good old days before the smoking ban kicked in and decimated traditional drunkenness..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #198
Gear Head
 

Spent some time on Friday with DSI X and OB6 a Virus, a Korg Minilogue, a Novation mininova and a Moog Subsequent. Love them all. I am a huge fan of synths. And if I had the money the space and a wife who didn’t mind I would have a room full. I’ve got the Deepmind12 and a MicroKorg already. Soft synths too of course.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #199
Gear Head
 

Awesome sounds cool I’m excited to learn from you

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0gr4m View Post
TLDR: nothing to see here.

I may take up this challenge as soon as i get everything hooked up...possibly this weekend. But here's a description of something I did years ago that supports both sides of the argument.

We had a Juno-60 that was getting beat up on the road. In an effort to prevent further damage to it, we needed to emulate the sounds from it on another synthesizer and we had to do it on a Yamaha CS6X.

To do this, I would pull up a sound on the Juno, and play a note. Then, while playing the note, for each parameter, I would move the slider up and/or down until it was in the correct position for the sound. Then I would figure what that position was numerically. For example, if it was at the bottom then that parameter would be zero. At the top it would be 100. In the middle, 50. A little above the middle, maybe 56. You get my drift. Then on the CS6X, starting with an initial sound I would select the appropriate waveform (remember the CS6x is a rompler) and then go through all the same parameters entering in the numeric value corresponding to the location of the slider on the Juno.

The process allowed us to emulate some of the sounds much closer than I would have though possible but certainly not all of them. However, as this was for live performances, everything was close enough. In a club with people talking, drinking, yelling and guitars and drums and vocals blaring, no one in the audience would know the difference. I could tell. Standing out in the middle of that yelling, drinking moshing crowd, I could tell the difference between the two synths. I could tell that the CS6x was missing something or different in one way or another and the difference wasn't necessarily subtle either.

NOW. Back at the warehouse where we practiced, if you played the Juno and then played the corresponding sound on the CS6x, you could clearly hear a difference. The difference wasn't always drastic and one synth wasn't necessarily better than the other (subjectively the Juno was better), but they were different and anyone would have been able to hear the difference and from that, likely preferred one synth instead of the other.

Determining if a difference is subtle or not means knowing how well someone can hear. For example if we have 2 synths set up as best they can be to generate the same sound, one of them can be perceived as brighter than the other, ballsier, smoother, harsher, etc. One person may have to really listen to hear that difference and to them that difference may be subtle. But to another person, that difference might be screaming at them and not be subtle at all.

Anyway, what I think i might do is i have the three original boutiques and I just got my stand for them this week and I wanna hook them up and fiddle about. Maybe i'll set them up with a sameish sound and see how different they are.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #200
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphNYC View Post
Spent some time on Friday with DSI X and OB6 a Virus, a Korg Minilogue, a Novation mininova and a Moog Subsequent. Love them all. I am a huge fan of synths. And if I had the money the space and a wife who didn’t mind I would have a room full. I’ve got the Deepmind12 and a MicroKorg already. Soft synths too of course.
Then don't be a slut. Both extremely adequate (where adequate means up to the task, not just "decent"). You could easily go on a world tour with either, or both.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #201
Gear Head
 

100% agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by ampetrosillo View Post
. You could easily go on a world tour with either, or both.
Old 1 week ago
  #202
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
I know I shouldn’t nudge this train wreck, but here goes!

For various reasons, I’m unloading synths. I’m trying to keep a few “core” bits, and really dig in and do more ITB. Now, if the original theory that all synths sound more or less the same, well, my job would be easy. Keep the cheapest one that does everything I need, eh? Or just the most full featured...

No such luck. Synths DO NOT SOUND THE SAME. In fact, the differences are really stark. One of the synths I decided to put on the chopping block as my trusty ATC-X. It’s really got not much of an interface to speak of, but it sounds great to me. My idea was to have one VCO based monosynth when the dust settled... but I just can’t do it. I bought a synth I’d been interested in since day one: The MFB Dominion 1. Lovely sound. My first impression with it was that it was great, but I was having trouble getting the really “juicy’ kinds of mid resonance sounds that the ATC-X (when it’s using its Moog style filter) does effortlessly. So, I went step by step with a basic initialized patch. The end result is, I could not for the life of me get that sound out of the Dominion 1, nor my Pro 2. However, I could get it from Synapse Audio’s Legend, because, of course, it’s designed to emulate that Moog filter sound. So, ditch the ATC-1, eh? Well, the ATC has a 3rd envelope. It also has two dedicated LFOs, one that will sync to MIDI clock. (Hey MFB, what gives?) And lovely sounding distortion (though I admit I’m impressed by Legend’s overdrive and feedback, it’s nothing like the Studio Electronics distortion). BUT WAIT! THERE’S MORE! Along with the Moog style filter, there is a ARP sounding filter.. and a SEM style filter... and a filter based on the 303! Now, changing no settings but the filter, I can hear big differences in the patch. How would that be, if all synths sounded alike?

Anyway, the ATC-X stays. I’ll have to figure out where it will go, but there’s no doubt in my mind that unless I was to replace it with some other sort of Moog filter equipped synth, I would not be happy. Does everyone need to have “that” sound? Of course not, but I personally really like it a lot. If you’re still under the impression that all synths sound alike, you really aren’t paying attention. Believe me, I’d love to have a single synth that “did it all.” It just doesn’t exist.
Old 1 week ago
  #203
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I know I shouldn’t nudge this train wreck, but here goes!

For various reasons, I’m unloading synths. I’m trying to keep a few “core” bits, and really dig in and do more ITB. Now, if the original theory that all synths sound more or less the same, well, my job would be easy. Keep the cheapest one that does everything I need, eh? Or just the most full featured...

No such luck. Synths DO NOT SOUND THE SAME. In fact, the differences are really stark. One of the synths I decided to put on the chopping block as my trusty ATC-X. It’s really got not much of an interface to speak of, but it sounds great to me. My idea was to have one VCO based monosynth when the dust settled... but I just can’t do it. I bought a synth I’d been interested in since day one: The MFB Dominion 1. Lovely sound. My first impression with it was that it was great, but I was having trouble getting the really “juicy’ kinds of mid resonance sounds that the ATC-X (when it’s using its Moog style filter) does effortlessly. So, I went step by step with a basic initialized patch. The end result is, I could not for the life of me get that sound out of the Dominion 1, nor my Pro 2. However, I could get it from Synapse Audio’s Legend, because, of course, it’s designed to emulate that Moog filter sound. So, ditch the ATC-1, eh? Well, the ATC has a 3rd envelope. It also has two dedicated LFOs, one that will sync to MIDI clock. (Hey MFB, what gives?) And lovely sounding distortion (though I admit I’m impressed by Legend’s overdrive and feedback, it’s nothing like the Studio Electronics distortion). BUT WAIT! THERE’S MORE! Along with the Moog style filter, there is a ARP sounding filter.. and a SEM style filter... and a filter based on the 303! Now, changing no settings but the filter, I can hear big differences in the patch. How would that be, if all synths sounded alike?

Anyway, the ATC-X stays. I’ll have to figure out where it will go, but there’s no doubt in my mind that unless I was to replace it with some other sort of Moog filter equipped synth, I would not be happy. Does everyone need to have “that” sound? Of course not, but I personally really like it a lot. If you’re still under the impression that all synths sound alike, you really aren’t paying attention. Believe me, I’d love to have a single synth that “did it all.” It just doesn’t exist.

whew, I thought for a minute you were going to unload the ATC-X. Glad it had a happy gearslutz ending. Now I will say to add fuel to this thread's fire, I was just recently considering swapping out my original Minibrute for the Minibrute 2, but the fact that it does NOT sound the same per reviews, is the EXACT reason I don't want to swap them out. Because I like that it is not so tame, although it can be tempered with discipline.. So I guess I may just get the Rackbrute instead, which is an entirely different dilemma. Sorry, beer is kicking in..
Old 1 week ago
  #204
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thevegasnerve View Post
whew, I thought for a minute you were going to unload the ATC-X. Glad it had a happy gearslutz ending. Now I will say to add fuel to this thread's fire, I was just recently considering swapping out my original Minibrute for the Minibrute 2, but the fact that it does NOT sound the same per reviews, is the EXACT reason I don't want to swap them out. Because I like that it is not so tame, although it can be tempered with discipline.. So I guess I may just get the Rackbrute instead, which is an entirely different dilemma. Sorry, beer is kicking in..
The brutes are a great example of very distinctive synths. I’ve never really heard anything like them.
Old 1 week ago
  #205
Gear Nut
 
JPogo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Maison said a bit earlier, this is borderline trolling. I tend to agree.

It is a musician's job to listen discerningly. OP, read that sentence again. And again. I am a music teacher. My students must complete aural training as part of their tertiary degree. Learning intervals, and being able to listen to different timbres carefully are just two sides of the same coin: improving one's aural awareness.

You cannot become a composer or a mix engineer with bad aural skills. Why do you think someone who is an expert on synths won't be able to tell the fine differences of one from the next? And that level of aural discernment is necessary for the composer, engineer, singer, guitarist or synthesist to become an expert.

"I cannot do this, therefore it cannot be done." Evidence to the contrary gets labelled as fake. Sadly this is a post-2010s internet mentality.

OP, are you sure you're not being affected by Dunning–Kruger here?
Of course, you're quite correct about educating the ear.

On the other hand, the OP never said "someone who is an expert on synths won't be able to tell the fine differences"; he instead asked IF there was such a big difference -- an inquiry, not an accusation.

Not surprisingly, an early reply was that some ear education was key.

I like the later comparison to regional American dialects -- although, to be fair, I never could tell a Chicagoan strictly by their dialect, despite being San Francisco-born. So I don't know that Chicago and SF are different enough (certainly not as identifiable as New Yorkers from the Bronx or Brooklyn, or the Lower East Side)
Old 1 week ago
  #206
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Praxisaxis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPogo View Post
On the other hand, the OP never said "someone who is an expert on synths won't be able to tell the fine differences"; he instead asked IF there was such a big difference -- an inquiry, not an accusation.
Well, let's treat it as if it were not rhetorical for a moment. In that case, differences that are noticed depend on experience, but at the same time it's also true that what appear to be minor differences to an outsider are important to the expert.

But this is not surprising. We wouldn't question professionals or aficionados across a range of fields when they insist on nuance or detail being important in one case or another.

Therefore, asking about a "big" difference between synths is a loaded question, no?
Old 1 week ago
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I know I shouldn’t nudge this train wreck, but here goes!

No such luck. Synths DO NOT SOUND THE SAME. In fact, the differences are really stark. One of the synths I decided to put on the chopping block as my
Oh everything sounds the same. All hardware effects modules, all synths, all external hard disk recorders, and even all amplifiers, and guitars (if you ignore the screams) and all pianos even (if you ignore the screams). Yeah it's all the same and we can all sound the same and we can all be the same, square peg into a round hole and everyone like us can be an equal and perfectly smart mathematical person and all math majors can become just like my mom who was one of the hardest (and perportedly most hated) English teachers in high school. Yes we can all be the same and sound the same and so everything will be non-different and we will all be happy. And then the world can all be happy. Finally. Happy?
Old 1 week ago
  #208
This whole thread is kind of dumb because just as I havent heard two people that sound the same I havent heard two synths that sound the same. I sent my sysex from my CS1x to the CS2x and I've always known the CS2x is slightly harsher/higher res even though it's not harsh to modern standards, but compared to the CS1x it is. Aside from these weakly implemented synths my point is that I've never heard two different hardware synths that sound like each other. Assuming you spend enough time on them. Granted, when you enter the domain of cheap Yamaha PSR keyboards they all sound the same because they all sound, well, cheezy. And you have to be a connoisoir of cheeziness to differentiate them. Anyways, just sayin! Or just playing in sound naturally you get better at being able to hear things which means you naturally will be able to notice differences. So that's why this thread is so kind of dumb/funny.
Old 1 week ago
  #209
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Muser's Avatar
if synths don’t sound the same, then I’d ask what is the range within which the degree is a meaningless difference.

then I’d ask myself if there are any factors in the processes I use which might involve the amplification of differences in meaningful ways. or which might play a role at the next point in the chain. my answer to that question is usually, yes there's an absolute shed load of those.

so even if the differences are small when comparing synths, those difference can become amplified into large differences. so it follows that larger differences would likely have to become even more apparent.

you can mix in an almost imperceptible short single tight echo to a snare drum and it can have a meaningful effect on the mix. even though you’d be hard pushed to hear it. at those points the difficulty is perceiving the effect using a mixture of knowledge and perception rather than just flat out hearing something. and then making what you think is the best call.

it might turn out to be the wrong call. but you learn from that and that becomes part of your experience.
is basically how I usually think about it.
Old 1 week ago
  #210
Gear Head
 

To clarify my original post - I’m new to synths and have been shopping a bit and bought a few. But what strikes me - strongly - is that I’ve played a bunch of synths (including soft synths) and the pads sound like pads, the saw leads sound like saw leads, and the plucky basses sounds like plucky basses, and the synths I’ve tried vary greatly in features and workflow but vary negligiblely - in my opinion - in sound. I am no stranger to GAS and gear obsession, but the strong opinions and emotions around one synth sound versus another I am not yet personally able to understand. From an audio point of view. I will point out that very few responses have produced audio-based evidence that synths really do have big sonic differences. And I think that goes a long way to answering the question I posed - which was not intended as trolling, rather I actually want to understand.
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