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Has Reverb.com Surpassed eBay In Fleecing People?
Old 27th December 2018
  #1
Lives for gear
Has Reverb.com Surpassed eBay In Fleecing People?

I just sold a guitar on Reverb.com and paid $261.81 in fees.

Total Selling Fees: $103.25
Total Payment Processing: $74.00
Total Shipping Label Fees: $84.64

I totally get the selling fees as this is the cost of using their site to post an item and literally have the world as your customer base. What I don't get are the Processing and Label Fees. $74 to move money, seriously?!? Shipping was initially $22, but then they added about $60 in additional fees because the item sold for over $1500. This is ridiculous since the various delivery services already have fees that will cover loss/damage as do PayPal and credit card payments.

The reason I stopped using eBay was because of their exuberant fees. Now I will dump Reverb.com as well. Craigslist is looking better everyday. I will just need to be more patient with the amount of time it takes to sell an item.

$261.81 in fees for selling a guitar!!!

Mind boggling. This is beyond ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant, I just had to let it out. I would also like some advice on other ways people are selling online without getting fleeced.
Old 27th December 2018
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
You sound like it was all sprung on you. A surprise. Why is that?

Except for maybe the exact shipping, which could vary due to distance, Reverb makes the costs available to you before you even list an item. You can even go on their Live Chat and have someone calculate it for you, or at least you could the last time I sold something on there and had questions.

Besides, the buyer pays the shipping. If you don't do your due diligence and just guess at what it might be, whose fault is that?
Old 27th December 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You sound like it was all sprung on you. A surprise. Why is that?

Except for maybe the exact shipping, which could vary due to distance, Reverb makes the costs available to you before you even list an item. You can even go on their Live Chat and have someone calculate it for you, or at least you could the last time I sold something on there and had questions.

Besides, the buyer pays the shipping. If you don't do your due diligence and just guess at what it might be, whose fault is that?
Maybe I didn't articulate my story in the best way. I was attracted to the convenience more than anything else. $250+ to sell an item is crazy. I guess that woke me up.

My beef is that when Reverb.com first started out, they were a great alternative to eBay. As time went on, they uped their fees significantly. Basically they are now just another eBay when it comes to selling. Again, as an example a $74 fee to move money and adding a $60 fee to shipping protection for something that is already covered, is greedy (IMHO). For me the problem is solved, I will not sell on Reverb.com anymore.

For the record, the buyer does not always pay the shipping. Particularly when the shipping is listed as "Free" by the seller.
Old 27th December 2018
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
For the record, the buyer does not always pay the shipping. Particularly when the shipping is listed as "Free" by the seller.
Okay, but what's stopping you from calculating the shipping in advance and building it into the price?
Old 27th December 2018
  #5
Lives for gear
 
swafford's Avatar
 

Shipping is pretty easy to calculate on Reverb and is way more cheaper then shipping with the vendor (UPS, etc.) I'm not sure if you bought "Reverb Shipping Protection", but that adds another chunk. I always buy it: UPS lost something of mine a year ago and to get remittance through them cost me endless hours on the telephone navigating various levels of customer service. They lost something again through Reverb, I had Reverb protection and as soon as UPS admitted fault, it took one email to Reverb and I it was paid out to me. I mean, sh!t, the amount of time saved not being on the phone talking to some ****** in India is worth paying it on every package as far as I'm concerned.

Payent processing fees are a bit opaque, I'm sure I could have a better understanding of what to expect if I investigated it further, but it's not like it's an unslovable mystery.

The big bonus to me is the level of customer service. Very responsive and never an attempt to marginalize my experience.

Totally worth the percentage I lose not having dealing with Craig's List clowns and Ebay automatons.
Old 27th December 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Okay, but what's stopping you from calculating the shipping in advance and building it into the price?
Again, you are missing the point. Yes I made the conscience decision to use Reverb.com. I did calculate the shipping into the price, but the fact remains that it costs me $261.81 in fees to sell a guitar. Was I aware of these fees, yes. That is finally starting to sink in and I really don't like it. That's all I am saying.
Old 27th December 2018
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
Totally worth the percentage I lose not having dealing with Craig's List clowns and Ebay automatons.
CL is still right for some things. Being in LA, with instruments and heavy gear I try that first. It usually sells straightaway, but it's often a cash deal at Denny's and me bringing along a large friend who gets lunch and a 20 for his trouble. I could do without that.
Old 27th December 2018
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
Again, you are missing the point. Yes I made the conscience decision to use Reverb.com. I did calculate the shipping into the price, but the fact remains that it costs me $261.81 in fees to sell a guitar. Was I aware of these fees, yes. That is finally starting to sink in and I really don't like it. That's all I am saying.
Okay, their fees are higher than you'd like. Got it. That's not "fleecing."
Old 27th December 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
I'm not sure if you bought "Reverb Shipping Protection", but that adds another chunk.
Reverb makes it mandatory for anything over $1500. Unfortunately, the fee is higher than if I had gone directly through a carrier myself. Reverb is making a profit on someone else's service. Lesson learned. I will no longer sell on Reverb.com
Old 27th December 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Okay, their fees are higher than you'd like. Got it. That's not "fleecing."
It is in my book. Particularly the part that reads "typically by overcharging".

Do I feel "swindled"? Nope. "Overcharged"? Yes.


fleece

/flēs/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: fleecing

1.
INFORMAL
obtain a great deal of money from (someone), typically by overcharging or swindling them.
"money that authorities say he fleeced from well-to-do acquaintances"
Old 27th December 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
CL is still right for some things. Being in LA, with instruments and heavy gear I try that first. It usually sells straightaway, but it's often a cash deal at Denny's and me bringing along a large friend who gets lunch and a 20 for his trouble. I could do without that.
In the town where I live in, the local police department has a dedicated area on there parking lot where Craigslist type exchanges can be made. If available, an officer will stand by as the transaction is being made. I think that is awesome!
Old 27th December 2018
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
It is in my book. Particularly the part that reads "typically by overcharging".

Do I feel "swindled"? Nope. "Overcharged"? Yes.


fleece

/flēs/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: fleecing

1.
INFORMAL
obtain a great deal of money from (someone), typically by overcharging or swindling them.
"money that authorities say he fleeced from well-to-do acquaintances"
Fine. When a mechanic, let's just say Magnolia Automotive at 10702 W Magnolia Blvd, N Hollywood CA 91601, is holding my car hostage for $1500 over and above the written estimate, I'd call that kind of overcharge "fleecing." A swindle. Criminal.

But when there's nothing hidden and the deal is there for you to take or leave, what's yer beef?

I have a USA gas station right next to my work. There's an ARCO a few blocks down. The ARCO is usually about 10 cents a gallon cheaper. But once in a while, the USA will go a couple weeks where they beat ARCO by a few cents and they'll be crazy busy. Then they start inching the price back up and before you know it they're way higher than ARCO again. But it takes quite a while for the USA customers to catch on and drift back to ARCO. Is that "fleecing?" Is it wrong? Maybe. But whose responsibility is it to be aware of what they're doing?
Old 27th December 2018
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Fine. When a mechanic, let's just say Magnolia Automotive at 10702 W Magnolia Blvd, N Hollywood CA 91601, is holding my car hostage for $1500 over and above the written estimate, I'd call that kind of overcharge "fleecing." A swindle. Criminal.

But when there's nothing hidden and the deal is there for you to take or leave, what's yer beef?

I have a USA gas station right next to my work. There's an ARCO a few blocks down. The ARCO is usually about 10 cents a gallon cheaper. But once in a while, the USA will go a couple weeks where they beat ARCO by a few cents and they'll be crazy busy. Then they start inching the price back up and before you know it they're way higher than ARCO again. But it takes quite a while for the USA customers to catch on and drift back to ARCO. Is that "fleecing?" Is it wrong? Maybe. But whose responsibility is it to be aware of what they're doing?
Oh, Brent, Brent, Brent. Always one to argue/debate just for the sake of it. It is like a sport with you. This is not a win/lose argument. It is me griping in the "Moan Zone".

I stated my case. I knew what I was getting into and I did it anyway. Shame on me. My point is.. enough is enough with Reverb.com for me. They charge more than I want to pay and I will use other avenues for selling my gear. I can't put it any simpler than that.
Old 27th December 2018
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
It is like a sport with you.
Okay, maybe it is. :-)

But in this case, I hung onto it for an actual reason. It seemed like you were accusing Reverb of doing something dishonest. I don't entirely love Reverb, either, but I don't think that's fair.
Old 27th December 2018
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Okay, maybe it is. :-)

But in this case, I hung onto it for an actual reason. It seemed like you were accusing Reverb of doing something dishonest. I don't entirely love Reverb, either, but I don't think that's fair.
I am guilty of the sport thing too

I never accused Reverb of being dishonest. They are simply living the capitalist dream. They are not breaking any laws or rules. They are charging more than I am will to pay that's all.
Old 27th December 2018
  #16
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Sounds like a rip-off to me. Legal or not.
Old 29th December 2018
  #17
wow i didn’t realize the fees had increased so much. Thanks for posting! I’ll be more careful next time I think about listing on reverb and read the fine print.

And thanks for putting up with argumentative angry fellas that vent their frustration with the universe for their pathetic existence and play devils advocate on helpful posts like yours. They add as little value to the forum as they do in life. Just ignore them and move on, knowing these people typically breed themselves out of the gene pool and are really just a temporary annoyance to everyone.

Thanks
Old 29th December 2018
  #18
Lives for gear
 
swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudgetInfinity View Post
wow i didn’t realize the fees had increased so much. Thanks for posting! I’ll be more careful next time I think about listing on reverb and read the fine print.

And thanks for putting up with argumentative angry fellas that vent their frustration with the universe for their pathetic existence and play devils advocate on helpful posts like yours. They add as little value to the forum as they do in life. Just ignore them and move on, knowing these people typically breed themselves out of the gene pool and are really just a temporary annoyance to everyone.

Thanks
I didn't find my reply angry. Argumentative...is the Moan Zone a place where everyone who has soured on something come for affirmation? Sorry, there I go being argumentative again. Still, I don't feel like I was venting due to my pathetic existence - I can actually like the service and be pathetic. (And, sorry again, but I have 2 daughters, so my gene pool will live on.)
Old 29th December 2018
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
I didn't find my reply angry. Argumentative...
I don't think he meant you. :-)
Old 29th December 2018
  #20
Lives for gear
 
swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I don't think he meant you. :-)
Well, he did use the plural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudgetInfinity View Post
And thanks for putting up with argumentative angry fellas
But in fairness, you can be the angry fella and I'll be the pathetic devils advocate.
Old 30th December 2018
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
If you select to use PayPal, you can get away from the money transfer fees and the high shipping fees.

Everyone can still use a credit card to pay you. Then there are not Reverb money transfer fees.

Reverb does deliver buyers though. Top price paid seems to be under $799.
Old 30th December 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 

I don't know, those fees don't seem out of line to me...if I was to get upset about anything, it would be the seller fee.

How much did the guitar actually sell for, and how was it paid for? I guess it depends on what that "payment processing" fee covers. Credit card companies charge a fee, PayPal charges a fee, banks charge a fee to transfer money and expedite the clearance of a check, is that what it's covering?

And carriers like FedEx and UPS do not include insurance in their rates. If you were to take the guitar directly to them the shipping cost would increase with the declared value of the guitar. A flat over $1500 fee does seem silly, but depending on how much more than $1500 the guitar is worth it may not be out of line.
Old 31st December 2018
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
If you select to use PayPal, you can get away from the money transfer fees and the high shipping fees.

Everyone can still use a credit card to pay you. Then there are not Reverb money transfer fees.

Reverb does deliver buyers though. Top price paid seems to be under $799.
I agree that Reverb does deliver buyers, but so does eBay. As far as PayPal goes. I found that there are quit a few anti-PayPal buyers out there. Enough so that your buyer base decreases significantly if you only accept PayPal payments.

As far as shipping goes, Reverb basically forces you to pay for extra coverage if your item sells for over $1500. More than what the other carriers would charge. At any rate, my point is that Reverb started out as a great alternative to eBay but is now the same in my book. They should call themselves "ReBay

I will not use them to sell anymore. $250+ to sell a guitar?!? No thank you.
Old 31st December 2018
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
I don't know, those fees don't seem out of line to me...
$261 to sell a guitar out of line for me.

Reverb profits on fees above and beyond what delivery carriers and financial institutions charge. They have every right to do so, but I will no longer support them. I am not asking anyone to agree.
Old 31st December 2018
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudgetInfinity View Post
wow i didn’t realize the fees had increased so much. Thanks for posting! I’ll be more careful next time I think about listing on reverb and read the fine print.

And thanks for putting up with argumentative angry fellas that vent their frustration with the universe for their pathetic existence and play devils advocate on helpful posts like yours. They add as little value to the forum as they do in life. Just ignore them and move on, knowing these people typically breed themselves out of the gene pool and are really just a temporary annoyance to everyone.

Thanks
Thanks for your reply.

I have learned over the years that you need thick skin to hang out on this site. I cannot speak for others who have posted here, but Brent Hahn is actually a very knowledgeable person who has helped me improve my recordings. Sure he can be a bit abrasive at times, but I just try my best to ignore those bits

Regardless of what anyone has posted here (argumentative or not), it has not changed my mind. I will no longer use Reverb. Sadly, that will bother people. My suggestion for those type is to get some counseling.
Old 31st December 2018
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
$261 to sell a guitar out of line for me.
It does seem high if it sold for $1501. But if it sold for, say, $3000? Not so much...
Old 31st December 2018
  #27
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
It does seem high if it sold for $1501. But if it sold for, say, $3000? Not so much...
I guess your blood is richer than mine. That's a lot of money either way to me.
Old 1st January 2019
  #28
It looks like Fleecing could be painful.

Old 1st January 2019
  #29
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
How much was the guitar sold for?
Old 2nd January 2019
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
I guess your blood is richer than mine. That's a lot of money either way to me.
I wouldn't say that it's not a lot, but in the case of a $3,000 guitar it's less than 10%, which doesn't seem unreasonable if it includes selling fees, credit card/PayPal fees, shipping and insurance. It's been a long time since I've used eBay but I seem to recall it typically being more than 10% when all was said and done...
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