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baby boomers Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 23rd October 2002
  #1
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

baby boomers

from kurt cobains diaries:
I like to blame my parents generation for coming so close to social change then giving up after a few successful efforts by the media & Government to deface the movement by using Mansons and other Hippie representatives as propaganda examples on how they were nothing but unpatriotic, communist, satanic, inhuman diseases. and in turn the baby boomers become the ultimate, conforming, Yuppie hypocrites a generation has ever produced.


so true. so true.
Old 23rd October 2002
  #2
Kurt's historical opinion of the dwindling out of the peace & hippy movement isn't especially origional.

I firmly belive that if you are political - go do something about it! Mouthing off does diddly. If Kobain hadn't wussed out on his drug pain, imagine what a spokesperson he could have been. How many more marchers do you think would have tagged along to Bono's - "pay back world debt" movement if Kurt simply turned up and waved from the podium in a stripey sweater? - A WHOLE BUNCH! (I would say in the UK you could atribute say, 1/2 a million extra marchers on a fair day...)

We in turn, can blame his trigger finger for a chance ALSO thrown away....

make a difference, do nothing or whine.....

You choose

He copped out.
Old 23rd October 2002
  #3
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which is better? copping out or being assimilated?
\

no, its not an original thought... i have thought the same thing of the baby boomers for quite a long while, probably before nirvana even hit the scene.


i do find the idea of them trading their vw vans in for beamers incredibly funny.
Old 3rd November 2002
  #4
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drundall's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

We in turn, can blame his trigger finger for a chance ALSO thrown away....

Well said Jules.
Old 6th August 2012
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

It's easy to imagine a whole bunch of what ifs and what could be's.

Far better to deal in the what actually is!
Old 6th August 2012
  #6
The larger problem that their movement had was that, as with all such movements, once you get past the solid core, all of whom were in in it long before it was cool, and it comes a 'movement', the bulk of them really don't care about the actual ideals of that original core all that much, or probably even really understand them. Not of course unlike the huge number of people who were only into the 'grunge' movement as a fashion, much to the disgust of a lot of people who were there from the early days. It quickly went from peace and love to heroin and coke and brain dead kids creating scenes like the Isle of Wight festival and whatnot.

Though, it has to be said, that they DID make a lot of changes. The world is very different socially than it was at that time, and they caused that. Even though most of them went on to join the rat race, they didn't see the work just like the WWII generation that came before them; and, as they came more into prominence due to sheer numbers, they did change things considerably. A hell of a lot more than Kurt crew did, though I'll say that Kurt's generation produced some of the best music since the boomer's era.

I'm actually quite sympathetic to the BB's social goals, but we long since passed the population density where we can go back to the garden and where everything is going to be free. Trying to do that now would make WWII look like a love in.
Old 7th August 2012
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Theres so much anti and opposition to the baby booers and their Rolling Stones Doobie Brothers mindset whereby they became the new dedicators and arbiters of taste but got superseded very quicky.

I like the bongs attitude whereby stupidly created laws have been hopefully overexamined into something more appropriate for what a large people percentage of the world like to do for recreation but;;;;

do we need anymore woodstocks or altamonts

So many good things fromthese people but so egocentricic and overbearing mememememe generation.
Old 7th August 2012
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Theyre now Great grandparents and I wonder how many have become TeaPartiers downplaying the lsd shenanigans of there overextended youth.

Soon they'll all be dead and it will be punk grandparents with saftey pin diapers instead of earings.
Old 7th August 2012
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by oobwa ee View Post
So many good things fromthese people but so egocentricic and overbearing mememememe generation.
That's so broad a brush that it is meaningless. They are not a bit more of those things than any of the people who came after them. It's just that their parents all happened to do the nasty at once, after WWII was over and something about surviving a world wide conflagration makes you want to bonk, and so there were a lot of them.
Old 7th August 2012
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
That's so broad a brush that it is meaningless. They are not a bit more of those things than any of the people who came after them. It's just that their parents all happened to do the nasty at once, after WWII was over and something about surviving a world wide conflagration makes you want to bonk, and so there were a lot of them.
not the bonking that anyoones going to give a care about, but the 80s when they sported Reagan an Wall St Free enterprise and wars in Iraq betraying their 60s roots.
PPl like Neil Young supporting Reagan an making homophobic statements. Neil said something liike 'Fags deserve aids'
The hypocrisy of it was ok when we smoke the marijuana and take the lsd but when you young people do it your just copying us so we make the wars on drugs.
The reaction to punk music hilarious and then Tip Tipper Gore and the PRMC. What was that any way - a bunch of post-menstrual boomers getting upset at sweary lyrics bug at least Zappa stood up, not that he was ever a hippy.
Old 7th August 2012
  #11
Trying to "institutionalize" the idealistic impulses of those days would have meant re-structuring society at large. Everyone would have had to agree, like at noon on an appointed day. Plus, no assassinations! Such wide-scale unity was never feasible, even if it appeared graspable.
Old 7th August 2012
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by oobwa ee View Post
not the bonking that anyoones going to give a care about, but the 80s when they sported Reagan an Wall St Free enterprise and wars in Iraq betraying their 60s roots.
PPl like Neil Young supporting Reagan an making homophobic statements. Neil said something liike 'Fags deserve aids'
The hypocrisy of it was ok when we smoke the marijuana and take the lsd but when you young people do it your just copying us so we make the wars on drugs.
The reaction to punk music hilarious and then Tip Tipper Gore and the PRMC. What was that any way - a bunch of post-menstrual boomers getting upset at sweary lyrics bug at least Zappa stood up, not that he was ever a hippy.
So, does that mean that other people get to judge your generation by the most embarrassing or hypocritical statements? Or, would you prefer that you not be smeared by what other people of your generation have done? You are just making the incredibly common mistake of trying to act like a whole generation of people are the same. They aren't. If they were, then we wouldn't continue to flip back and forth between political parties, because all of the BB would be on one side and that would have been the end of the other party effectively. They aren't all the same any more than all of your generation are the same.

Probably the big mistake they (in the general sense) might have made was in actually claiming some sort of ideal and not achieving it, as apposed to those generations who came after them who made no attempt whatsoever to reach any ideal (mine among them, I was in whatever the children of the boomers was called) and therefore couldn't fail because they never tried.
Old 7th August 2012
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
So, does that mean that other people get to judge your generation by the most embarrassing or hypocritical statements? Or, would you prefer that you not be smeared by what other people of your generation have done? You are just making the incredibly common mistake of trying to act like a whole generation of people are the same. They aren't. If they were, then we wouldn't continue to flip back and forth between political parties, because all of the BB would be on one side and that would have been the end of the other party effectively. They aren't all the same any more than all of your generation are the same.

Probably the big mistake they (in the general sense) might have made was in actually claiming some sort of ideal and not achieving it, as apposed to those generations who came after them who made no attempt whatsoever to reach any ideal (mine among them, I was in whatever the children of the boomers was called) and therefore couldn't fail because they never tried.
Yes you're right in a way, but the things is for the 60s genereations is that they proclaimed so loudly and for so long that they did becomes like a cartoon cliche to many.

Even today there are still many refugees appertaining to be hoping the 60s will return
Old 19th September 2012
  #14
The assumption that everyone in the 60's supported civil rights and other forward thinking social and political policies is just plain wrong. There were plenty of conservatives and elitists that only looked the part of the left wing because those were the fashion trends.

The entire "hippie" movement was in fact a middle class to upper middle class movement and was largely limited to the youth most of whom were more interested in having a good time and were not particularly political.

Joining a peace march was as much a social outing as it was political and maybe even more so.

For the most radical ideals of the time to have had any real substance would have required that most of the young people flashing peace signs and protesting the war in Vietnam abandon their marginally privileged status. That was never going to happen.

If there is ever going to be real change, or a real revolution, it will come from the ranks of the most disenfranchised, certainly not those that have the most to gain from maintaining their status.
Old 19th September 2012
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
The assumption that everyone in the 60's supported civil rights and other forward thinking social and political policies is just plain wrong. There were plenty of conservatives and elitists that only looked the part of the left wing because those were the fashion trends.

The entire "hippie" movement was in fact a middle class to upper middle class movement and was largely limited to the youth most of whom were more interested in having a good time and were not particularly political.

Joining a peace march was as much a social outing as it was political and maybe even more so.

For the most radical ideals of the time to have had any real substance would have required that most of the young people flashing peace signs and protesting the war in Vietnam abandon their marginally privileged status. That was never going to happen.

If there is ever going to be real change, or a real revolution, it will come from the ranks of the most disenfranchised, certainly not those that have the most to gain from maintaining their status.
Sounds like you should just have some cake.
Old 19th September 2012
  #16
Kurt failed to see the big picture in a lot of respects. One simply can't see society as black and white, right and wrong, conservative and liberal. People are too complex.

He bought into punk ideology, failing to see that it was closed minded, dogmatic and ultimately meaningless. There are great ideas associated to punk to cling onto and ideas that close doors.

If he actually believed that the Boomers were a total failure, he also failed to see the big picture there. Culture really changed for the better after the 60s. Our society is a lot more open, women and minorities are treated more fairly (although not completely) and attitudes towards lifestyles are generally more tolerant. We have a black president now. Impossible in the 60s.

Kurt ultimately failed to grow up and see things from a more balanced perspective. The world is grey.
Old 20th September 2012
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post

If there is ever going to be real change, or a real revolution, it will come from the ranks of the most disenfranchised, certainly not those that have the most to gain from maintaining their status.
So, if there is hope, it lies with the proles?

Not so sure that's true actually. The truly disenfranchised are usually a bit busy being downtrodden and disenfranchised to worry about improving their lot. Meanwhile, the enfranchised are the ones who have all the money and guns and the system on their side.

Now, your disenchanted middle classes, that's a much richer breeding ground for revolution. More likely to be able to make it stick too.

Or maybe I've just been reading too much Orwell...
Old 20th September 2012
  #18
Or, worse, if the downtrodden do end up taking over, then you usually, at least for a while, will be wishing you had the old guard back. Being pissed off and under-educated isn't generally a great prep school for running a country.
Old 20th September 2012
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oobwa ee View Post
Yes you're right in a way, but the things is for the 60s genereations is that they proclaimed so loudly and for so long that they did becomes like a cartoon cliche to many.

Even today there are still many refugees appertaining to be hoping the 60s will return
Well there's the gansta proclamations of today's world , like the guy in Manchester this week , a guy on the run , decided to phone in a fake burglary to lure in two unarmed WPCs so as to kill them with grenades and pistol shots .
Then he handed himself (safely) into a police station later .
What is their (disaffected/displaced youth?) "unifying cry" ? "Fuk da police" ?

Cobain is no banner under which to hang rational arguments against previous "labels" of music subculture .
He did have a background of abuse and mental health problems (bipolar?) .

Seems like the same ole "dance music has no quality" , "old music has no progression/relevance" argument so popular .

At least argue about a philosophy that you feel "suits" life better , don't go slating stuff just because it is different/old/foreign etc.
Old 20th September 2012
  #20
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Quote:
So, if there is hope, it lies with the proles?
i'm going to stay out of this one but i thought the exact same thing. could be that i just re-read 1984 recently.
Old 20th September 2012
  #21
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Stereotyping, especially with this broad a brush, is always bad form, no matter who does it.
Old 20th September 2012
  #22
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SMARTGUY's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk View Post
from kurt cobains diaries:
I like to blame my parents generation for coming so close to social change then giving up after a few successful efforts by the media & Government to deface the movement by using Mansons and other Hippie representatives as propaganda examples on how they were nothing but unpatriotic, communist, satanic, inhuman diseases. and in turn the baby boomers become the ultimate, conforming, Yuppie hypocrites a generation has ever produced.


so true. so true.
Hmmm. How old was he when he said this? And then he off'ed himself?
Sounds like an unreasonably angry young man looking to blame someone for perceived injustices? The baby boomers did do all that. But this is how I see it (at least through the eyes of my baby boomer dad):
For the most part their parents were decent law abiding right wing squares (even most north eastern minorities). So a lot of that hardcore marching, protesting that turned into sex, drugs and rock and roll was mainly rebellion. Rebelling against their own upbringing, their own societal norms good or bad on a large scale. These same kids joined street gangs,peace corps, military and college in numbers never seen again as a way to look for an identity so unlike their parents. The government got scared and sought to destroy this frivolity of youth. What many don't know is the lengths in which they went to quell this energy. War, drugs, disease and just outright wickedness scared everyone back to what we all become in the long run, our parents. Now these ex hippies turned the eighties into the most egotistical decade we have ever seen. Just like their parents but BIGGER. But instead of squares they just became a perfect right angle. Nothing but one big corner. So all though they DID FORGET their narrative as a people. They went through a hell of a lot more going forward to become a voice. Growing up with baby boomer parents was kind of an exercise in contradictions and oxymorons. Do as we say not as we do. But I wouldn't have it any other way. Imagine how our children will perceive our generation?
Old 20th September 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
If Kobain hadn't wussed out on his drug pain, imagine what a spokesperson he could have been
I don't know how many original thoughts you or I or anyone else has had.

That's strong judgement from someone who never experienced what Kurt experienced. There is nothing more cowardly IMHO than this kind of judgement. I don't know about Cobain's condition other than what was reported in the media, but he obviously had issues.

It's true most people could do more to further social causes. I'm pretty sure you and I aren't doing all we can either.

I am in partial agreement with Kurt, for the record. I think the boomers got lazy, and they deserve criticism for it. I don't think it's unique, I think most people get complacent as they age. Or should I say "we?"

I wouldn't judge Kurt so harshly, that's the main reason I responded.
Old 21st September 2012
  #24
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I don't think Kurt should be known or talked about for anything, except for all those freakin awesome recordings
Old 21st September 2012
  #25
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Courtney Love has still not been brought to justice for the murder of Kurt Cobain
Old 21st September 2012
  #26
You just got an "Amen!"
Old 26th September 2012
  #27
This was tried in the court of public opinion... 'in absentia' would I guess be a more accurate way to put it...
Old 24th April 2013
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

all the boombers are old and get the amnesia these days.
I is nearly the boomber but i is 01 decade earlier
hip hop rappers killed everything food the boombers tried to be doing anyhow
Old 24th April 2013
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubheadjobby View Post
all the boombers are old and get the amnesia these days.
I is nearly the boomber but i is 01 decade earlier
hip hop rappers killed everything food the boombers tried to be doing anyhow
Is this English? ^. ^

My grand folks are boomers and grandad tells drug stories like his pop would tell war stories.

I'm far more innocent & conservative than his generation and I'm certainly no right whinger
Old 24th April 2013
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne_kerr View Post
Is this English? ^. ^

My grand folks are boomers and grandad tells drug stories like his pop would tell war stories.

I'm far more innocent & conservative than his generation and I'm certainly no right whinger
Hey kid, i mean 'young man', go easy on clubheadjobby, O.K ?

Not everybody have mastered the English language like you have.
We have members from all over the world and English may not be their native language. We must show some tolerance. Also keep in mind that 'Google Translate' is still in its infancy, mistakes are sure to occur.

Or, maybe, clubheadjobby is just pulling your leg.

Furthermore, i don't know what a right 'whinger' is.


-H.W.
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