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Attack of the Behringer Clones
Old 5th May 2018
  #1
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intuitionnyc's Avatar
Attack of the Behringer Clones

Crazy output by Behringer announcing many clones of older Arp, Korg and Roland gear.

I am curious what it will do to the vintage market. I speculate that it will not change the vintage market as there will always be high rollers that want the real mccoy.

I am very curious about the sound. If it is 90% there or better, it will be awesome for many that wanted the OG's but couldnt afford them. It will also be nice to get the wanting of these recreations out of our system and move forward. For years people have wanted 1-to-1 recreations and many of these will fill that want.

I am undecided how I feel about Behringer taking years of hard work and R&D and making it their own. It kinda reminds me of the pop stars and hip hop artists taking many old 80's anthems and making a "new" song out of it and raking in dough. On the other hand, many if us here have been wanting these 1-to-1 recreations and nobody has really listened. So kudos to Behringer for saying, "hey, if yoy guys don't wanna do it, we will."

If these things sell like hotcakes, I'm sure the old players (especially Roland) will sorta smack their heads.

What are your thoughts? Any specific ones you are eyeing??? I am really curious about the MS-101 the most.
Old 5th May 2018
  #2
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Great thread idea. I would like to know how Behringer is able to do this so easily. Is it due to the size of the company and owning its own factories? How do they nail stuff that the original companies have not been able to?

I don't see anything to worry about regarding "years of hardwork." You're talking about work decades old that has been abandoned. It's been clear that people want the old sounds and nothing has been done about that.

I think that prices will fall a bit. I am excited about the ARP due to its patch memory. That's one thing I didn't like about the KARP and also why I kept holding off buying. I figured they'd introduce a Pro-KARP a bit later on. They never bothered to but they gave us all an identical full-size keyboard version with no improvements and some sort of technical bug left in it.
Old 5th May 2018
  #3
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payt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmarva View Post
Great thread idea. I would like to know how Behringer is able to do this so easily. Is it due to the size of the company and owning its own factories? How do they nail stuff that the original companies have not been able to?

I don't see anything to worry about regarding "years of hardwork." You're talking about work decades old that has been abandoned. It's been clear that people want the old sounds and nothing has been done about that.

I think that prices will fall a bit. I am excited about the ARP due to its patch memory. That's one thing I didn't like about the KARP and also why I kept holding off buying. I figured they'd introduce a Pro-KARP a bit later on. They never bothered to but they gave us all an identical full-size keyboard version with no improvements and some sort of technical bug left in it.
Not to break the spell, but I don't think the Barp Odyssey has patch memory. It does have memory for sequences though. Other than that, you'll have to program each and every sound yourself. Which is what makes it fun and educational and adventurous etc
Old 5th May 2018
  #4
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drockfresh's Avatar
The best result of the clones is it allow you to play live with musicians using synths you had to keep locked up in a museum.

I am so happy that I can leave the studio and beat up some analog synths that stay in tune and you can spill beer on like the good ol days.
Old 5th May 2018
  #5
Im going to start my own behringer thread to answer
Old 5th May 2018
  #6
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
Not to break the spell, but I don't think the Barp Odyssey has patch memory. It does have memory for sequences though. Other than that, you'll have to program each and every sound yourself. Which is what makes it fun and educational and adventurous etc
What's interesting is having CC control of every top panel parameter means there are DACs and ADCs added to the original designs. All of the heavy lifting needed for patch storage is already done and sitting right there. Implementing patch memory would be trivial -- and the sequencer buttons could easily double as patch and bank selection buttons.

I'd bet good money that patch storage will be there.
Old 5th May 2018
  #7
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intuitionnyc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Im going to start my own behringer thread to answer
You cheeky bahstud!!! I know there are already other Behringer threads for each new instrument, but I thought it might be fund to discuss all of them without diving through pages and pages of other stuff. Was there a similar thread like this already going on?

Back to the topic:
That is a good call that all of these will allow live musicians to use them without bringing vintage pieces on the road. The boutique series and karp odyssey did that (sorta), but I feel these larger recreations have a more instrument type feel.
Old 5th May 2018
  #8
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
As for what the new clones will do to the vintage market...

My prediction is some of the crazy-and-getting-crazier prices will settle down and perhaps drop a little. Once the initial flurry is over and people have their fill there will be two tiers of buyers -- vintage enthusiasts who covet and trade the originals and those more interested in actually playing music with them who will prefer the affordable clones. Once the Behr clones become discontinued products then the vintage market will get crazy again and the clones will increase in value too, perhaps to the inflated but not-crazy levels some of the originals were at a few years ago.

I made some predictions about MS-20 prices a few years back when the MS-20 mini hit the scene and most of these have borne out. MS-20's were hitting highs of $2500 in some rare cases before the Mini, though $1500+ was probably more realistic. Then the Mini hit and there was a drop to around $1000-1500 and they seemed to stabilize around that point even when the full size kit and the MS-20M module hit. Now the module and full size are discontinued and prices for the originals have crept back into the $1500+ range.

What I *didn't* foresee was the effect the Mini had on MS-10, MS-50, Blackboard MS-20 prices. With the Mini at prices near or slightly less the MS-10 took a considerable hit in second hand prices. Good for anyone wanting to pick an MS-10 up. MS-50's have always been expensive and they continue to be expensive, so not much of a dent there. MS-20 Blackboards used to be cheap relative to their rarity -- ~50 made, and they used to command prices a little more than the regular MS-20, mostly as a curiosity. Most people didn't know about them or didn't want them because they were so big and unwieldy. Now, I think you'll be lucky to find someone willing to sell you one for less than $10k. So it goes.
Old 5th May 2018
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
Not to break the spell, but I don't think the Barp Odyssey has patch memory. It does have memory for sequences though.
That's strange to me. I'm surprised they're putting it out then, unless they plan to price it insanely cheap.

I am really looking forward to the UBXA and a Jupiter clone that I am confident they will bring out in the future.
Old 5th May 2018
  #10
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payt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmarva View Post
That's strange to me. I'm surprised they're putting it out then, unless they plan to price it insanely cheap.

I am really looking forward to the UBXA and a Jupiter clone that I am confident they will bring out in the future.
It's going to be $500 or below, according to Uli.. that's cheap to me!
Old 5th May 2018
  #11
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I think the used OG prices will stabilize but not drop much. People with several thousand dollars to spend on one vintage electronic instrument are looking for more than a solution to an aesthetic problem.

I'd say Roland in particular have recycled themselves and digitally recreated themselves to the point of utter saturation and are forced to innovate once again anyway. Time to take the V-Synth to a higher turn of the spiral.
Old 5th May 2018
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by intuitionnyc View Post
You cheeky bahstud!!! I know there are already other Behringer threads for each new instrument, but I thought it might be fund to discuss all of them without diving through pages and pages of other stuff. Was there a similar thread like this already going on?

Back to the topic:
That is a good call that all of these will allow live musicians to use them without bringing vintage pieces on the road. The boutique series and karp odyssey did that (sorta), but I feel these larger recreations have a more instrument type feel.
I think theres a general feeling that quality analogue gear couldnt be built to a price until fairly recently. I think Korg and Arturia changed that thought process slightly but brands like Roland and Yamaha seem to be of the thought that emulations are what to offer at the sub $500 pricepoint. I think they misread the market...and although we bought up the boutiques and ACB modelling the majority wanted analogue versions...so Im glad they are doing this and I think there will be quite a few boutique/Aira/Reface owners trading in their gear.

Ive bought four Roland synths in the last year, sold one, but the behringer stuff hasnt changed, or would've changed those purchases...I bought the DM and Boog too...I think Ill get the neutron or the Pro one. The others aint my bag or I dont have the room for more keys...plus a $300 module can be an impulse buy every few months, above $500 then Im more interested in stuff like Dreadbox. Got no desire to buy any of the TR series...I prefer samples or my Vermona.

I cant see it affecting the OG market other than those who have more than one classic may cash it in. Ive had my eye on an OG 101 and at $1k its still not out of the question, if the behri brings it down a couple of hundred Ill be happy. I know folks are wanting new stuff but Im happy wit( some of the clones, Id rather see stuff like eurorack, and sequencers...maybe some higher end preamp/eq clones.
Old 5th May 2018
  #13
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Why the flurry of mono synths with no patch storage and no significant progress on any of the polys that GS has been clamoring for for the last two years? Or, for that matter, even the number one mono everyone has been clamoring for the ARP 2600? We were teased with the UB-XA and now Superbooth is almost done with no progress to show or updates. Is it just easier to produce, what, four (no patch storage) monos in 6 months than to show some progress for what so many would like to see brought back to life? Don't get me wrong; I am extremely grateful that Uli is recreating these old synths (it's like being young again), but couldn't there be a little balance in the type of synth he's recreating (classic mono, classic poly, original mono, wild out of this world new poly, etc.)? I'm just afraid I'll be pushing up daisies before I see any of the synths from the "what synth will Behringer make next?" thread.

p.s. Great title for Star Wars Day.
Old 5th May 2018
  #14
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Actually I'd love a poly keyboard WITHOUT patch memory.
Come on Vermona!
Old 5th May 2018
  #15
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmarva View Post
That's strange to me. I'm surprised they're putting it out then, unless they plan to price it insanely cheap.

I am really looking forward to the UBXA and a Jupiter clone that I am confident they will bring out in the future.
Why is it strange, none of the originals had patch storage, I don't get this obession some have with patch memory, isn't the whole fun of synthesis to sit down and synthesisze your own sounds..?

May as well buy Omnsiphere if you want a million patches to play. There's absolutely no need for patch storage on a simple mono like the Arp, poly synths a different story I guess. I think the B Arp is well designed, it has just the right amount of modern extras versus old school sound and looks.
Old 5th May 2018
  #16
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Behringer is getting it ALL done! Making synths great again! Thank you, President Uli!
Old 5th May 2018
  #17
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donato's Avatar
I think they are pacing themselves. In less than two years we will see announcements for a Memorymoog, Prophet 5, CS-80, etc. etc. And I bet they will nail it.
Old 5th May 2018
  #18
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Cheap knock off only make the price of originals go up.

808, 101 and 303 have been perfectly recreated and improved many many times by brands much more respected than Behringer. Yet the originals keep going up.

I shrug my shoulders over Odyssey, SH, and Boog because they are already overdone.

I am excited that Uli is making VP-330 and System 100m clones. And I really love when they make new designs like the Nuetron.

I know Roland is making System 500 modules, but they seem more like something new that is inspired by 100m. These Behringer modules will be very welcome.

So yeah, I love some of it, hate some of it, but begrudgingly might have to get some (ALL) of it... haha.
Old 5th May 2018
  #19
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
There is going to be some awesome fun to be had when people start building/putting together all Behringer setups and writing music with only Behringer gear, you know someone will do it, probably loads will.. maybe even Bobsbaloney or whatever he calls himself.
Old 5th May 2018
  #20
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cake100's Avatar
 

Still about 18 more releases planned (or more now). Synth heaven....
Old 5th May 2018
  #21
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ive got a ms20m table, mostly cause my first synth was a ms20..

since then ive had most of the classics and other than the very highest echelon im not really interested.
the pro1 has spiked my interest but nothing else..

as they become secondhand and cheap i will grab some, just as i did in the early 90s, when 808 were dime a dozen.
Old 5th May 2018
  #22
Behringer Ferrari..


Old 5th May 2018
  #23
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Odyssey is going to be $500 or less according to Uli the other day. By all accounts it doesn't have patch memory. MS101 is rumoured to be $349 or less(being one vco don't be surprised if it's $299).
Old 5th May 2018
  #24
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Beringher have.proved they can do a decent poly with the Deep Mind so patience my young padawans..I think we all love the fact they are bringing back to life the iconic synths of the past...no downside I can see as as peeps here have said it'll force Roland amd Korg to deliver different stuff to get a slice of the market. ..
Old 5th May 2018
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

Of course the vintage prices will go down and it's about time. We can already see it with the Minimoog
Old 5th May 2018
  #26
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I never got into the vintage analog craze, because to me the prices were ridiculous or even intolerable in the recent years. Nothing but their scarcity could explain the price. I still remember the second hand prices of the mid-late '90s when even though electronic music was already hugely popular the second hand prices were decent.

Selling vintage analogs might have been a good business to someone in the recent years, but musicians will praise and celebrate what Behringer has done.
Old 5th May 2018
  #27
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
Behringer Ferrari..


More like Korg 86%
Old 5th May 2018
  #28
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As far as synth/music electronics companies go, I think (no trolo) that the only honest way to describe what Behringer has been doing on the business and manufacturing side is innovation.

Roland has had ample opportunity to do what Behringer's done, but it seems like they're almost pathologically incapable of listening to their customer base. Moog, as much as I admire the idealism of their business, have been focusing on hand-building instruments with through-hole parts as though the past 40 years haven't happened. Behringer, on the other hand, have been following what's happened in the rest of consumer electronics and bringing those advances to music technology.

Why do I never see anyone moaning about "ripping off other people's hard work" when some rando in a garage puts a Moog filter in a Eurorack module and sells it for 400 euros? But the basic circuitry is just one part of the product, the real engineering work is in making everything around it. There's an art to getting something all the way from back-of-the-napkin design to boxes in the shops, and Behringer master it.
Old 5th May 2018
  #29
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it's nice to see behringer bringing out clones of vintage synths and drum machines, but i've always been in the market for a clone of a vintage organ. not these digital versions like nords, rolands, yamaha's, korg's or software. an actual clone of a organ like for instance a farfisa compact duo/combo or the old VIP range.

would be nice if someone brought out real transistor organs again and maybe a clone of the elka rhapsody 490/610 strings, or the eminent 610U.

organs are capable of otherworldy sounds if played through the proper echo effects and reverbs, not just synthesizers.

to quote:

Old 5th May 2018
  #30
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
Behringer Ferrari..




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