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Attack of the Behringer Clones
Old 6th May 2018
  #121
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunnyKine View Post
Here's *an* example of how the Behringer clones will impact Vintage prices:

I used to own vintage gear, lost a bunch in a theft years ago, took time off, and am looking to acquire and reacquire various sounds I want in my tool box. And prior to the advent of inexpensive clones I was basically facing the prospect to having to pay the going rate for Vintage, which would be challenging if not exorbitantly or even prohibitively expensive. For me, as debatable as it may be, I'm only interested in actual analog versions, ACB and the like simply doesn't interest me at all. I like digital effects and synths fine, mind you, just not digital recreations of analog...

However, now, with the advent of these inexpensive alternatives - I'll be buying the following Behringer clones as they become available (and assuming sound the same, if they all do):

MiniD
Pro-One
MS-101
Odyssey
VP-340
UBXa
Bupiter-8 if it comes to pass
808
909 and 303 if they come to pass
Etc

So, how will this affect Vintage prices? Because of literal reduced Demand. The thousands of dollars I was prepared to but dreading having to spend are now totally off the table. I simply won't bother hunting down 40yo gear at hyper inflated collector prices, because the collecting was never what I cared about, I only want the sounds and features, labels and swagger matter not, and if Behringer continues to nail the sound - I'm a guaranteed customer.

And I can't be the only one in a similar situation, and as such - I suspect the pool of customers who seek Vintage sounds and were prepared to buy Vintage gear to get them is shrinking faster than the pool of Vintage collectors who want actual originals is growing. Now, I'm not suggesting it will tank the Vintage prices, but I bet it chills them the f--k out and slows it down a bit, and that's good, because $12,000 for a JP-8 is literally insane, in my opinion.

And, again, had Roland made analog 808s instead of ACB, I'd have bought them instead. And if Korg had made the Odyssey FS built as well as the Behringer but priced like the Karp Module, I'd have bought that instead. But they didn't, and won't, and now Behringer gets my money.

Their loss.
Nah I mean I think the people that have the money and will only settle for the real thing aren’t gong anywhere. The people that couldn’t justify a real Minimoog or 808 were probably not going to buy either no matter what.

And yeah, Roland/etc did this to themselves.

I do not think that Behringer will hurt any of the smaller companies that make original gear. If anything, it will make them diversify their products away from clones and drive them to do strictly new things. Behringer gear = cheap gateway drug, which while it does appeal to synth heads...is also gonna draw in the casual synth crowd like guitar players...and once they get tired of their model D they are gonna look and see what else is out there. I show my Model Ds to my friends that are primarily guitar players (ie: don’t own any serious synths) and they are like...whoa...cool $300 for a Minimoog...I’m in.

Just like how the Microkorgs became a hit.
Old 6th May 2018
  #122
Lives for gear
 

Synth Crack

I'll buy just about every $500 or less unique synth anyone makes, especially analog, especially CV laden, and especially clones of interesting vintage gear (as well as new twists). $300 just makes it easier and more accessible for an even wider audience. Like tools in a toolbox, Picasso didn't have only one brush or only use one color... there's nothing weird about having 30 effects and 30 synths... particularly if they're fairly unique from one to the next.

Who's name is on the label means nothing to me, resale value either, or aesthetics in many cases, assuming it's legal and has the sounds and functions I want and isn't just hideous looking. I'm building a big toolbox, not a fashion show, and I doubt I'll ever sell another piece of gear again, I just buy more carefully and more slowly.

I want them all, music gear wise, and it's getting more possible each day.
Old 6th May 2018
  #123
Deleted b598644
Guest
I am reading the new Behringer synth threads and i am just amazed.

Behringer is supplying us synth-enthusiasts with superaffordable analog synths, with a bunch of knobs, MIDI, extra features, patchability even etc., something that synth-musicians were asking for, and still there is criticism.
Old 6th May 2018
  #124
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassX View Post
I am reading the new Behringer synth threads and i am just amazed.

Behringer is supplying us synth-enthusiasts with superaffordable analog synths, with a bunch of knobs, MIDI, extra features, patchability even etc., something that synth-musicians were asking for, and still there is criticism.
Agreed.. don't recall anyone whining when Roland put out a Minimoog knockoff (SE02)
Old 6th May 2018
  #125
Lives for gear
 

Or countless TubeScreamer clones, or 1176 clones, or Neuman clones, or Strat and Tele clones, or ES-335 ripoffs and clones, and Independent skateboard truck clones, and Levi's clones, and Adidas clones and ripoffs, and the myriad of barely-different iterations of all of them that's essentially everywhere. The illegal bits need to quit, but the rest is the status quo, today's normal, part of the game, all that.

It's a great time to be buying gear. So many choices. Good to great prices. I'd have killed for these choices at these prices 20yrs ago. Your gear money goes so much farther now, and access is as good as it's ever been. I like gear from about 20 different companies, options galore.

Best it's ever been, for the buyer.
Old 6th May 2018
  #126
Lives for gear
 
Analog Rob Lowe's Avatar
I have to agree, I have a boog (incredible value) getting a barp, how can you not? Definitely in the market for a Uli xa, and close to pulling the trigger on an other xair mixer, alls well, hail the Chief Disruptor
Old 6th May 2018
  #127
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted b598644 View Post
... and still there is criticism.
Any GS topic is subjected to the law of conservation of bickering.

Makes more sense to focus on the things that you like instead of obsessing over things you dislike. I'll buy every Behringer synth out there and don't give a hoot about the haters.
Old 6th May 2018
  #128
Gear Nut
 

The Odyssey clone looks very cool. The effects section, connectivity upgrades, simple sequencer and 3 filter types makes it a winner to me. I owned one back in the 80s. Bought it for 35 bucks and sold it to my brother for 20. He still has it in his classic stash.

Now, what would have me really excited would be if Behringer did an Oscar clone. Oh, my God, I'd have kittens! I had one - bought it new September 30, 1985. It was the keyboard I regretted selling the most.

Great work Behringer... the future for analog looks very exciting.
Old 6th May 2018
  #129
I'm probably going to buy every one of these things!
Old 7th May 2018
  #130
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
Agreed.. don't recall anyone whining when Roland put out a Minimoog knockoff (SE02)
I think people just like to be fake outraged nowadays, and seek attention and sympathy because of it.
Old 7th May 2018
  #131
Lives for gear
 
breakmixer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassX View Post
I am reading the new Behringer synth threads and i am just amazed.

Behringer is supplying us synth-enthusiasts with superaffordable analog synths, with a bunch of knobs, MIDI, extra features, patchability even etc., something that synth-musicians were asking for, and still there is criticism.
Yep, I can't wait for his RD-909, VC430 and Pro-One, I can finally afford to end my synth/drum want list without breaking my balls to save up for them. I just won't be swapping out my Karp Odyssey or Yocto for Behringer gear as they already tick that box.
Old 7th May 2018
  #132
Lives for gear
 
Quantum7's Avatar
You deserve a break today....at McBehringer!
Old 7th May 2018
  #133
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by niklasni1 View Post
As far as synth/music electronics companies go, I think (no trolo) that the only honest way to describe what Behringer has been doing on the business and manufacturing side is innovation.

Roland has had ample opportunity to do what Behringer's done, but it seems like they're almost pathologically incapable of listening to their customer base. Moog, as much as I admire the idealism of their business, have been focusing on hand-building instruments with through-hole parts as though the past 40 years haven't happened. Behringer, on the other hand, have been following what's happened in the rest of consumer electronics and bringing those advances to music technology.

Why do I never see anyone moaning about "ripping off other people's hard work" when some rando in a garage puts a Moog filter in a Eurorack module and sells it for 400 euros? But the basic circuitry is just one part of the product, the real engineering work is in making everything around it. There's an art to getting something all the way from back-of-the-napkin design to boxes in the shops, and Behringer master it.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I have said this before: Behringer is the new Roland, and Roland is the new Toys'R'Us.
Old 8th May 2018
  #134
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Ocelot View Post
Once the initial flurry is over and people have their fill there will be two tiers of buyers -- vintage enthusiasts who covet and trade the originals and those more interested in actually playing music with them who will prefer the affordable clones.
Or the third tier. People who buy the originals and make music with them. There's this mistaken assumption somehow that only people who buy cheap knock offs make music. It's as laughable as it is wrong.

Of course the most common will be the 4th tier. People who buy the cheap clones and still don't make any music.
Old 8th May 2018
  #135
Lives for gear
 
IncarnateX's Avatar
 

It is all great to me. As in “really great”. Nothing to moan about. Synths to the people. Only downside is that GAS is going to ruin me. But thanks anyway, Behringer. If I have to go down, this is the way to go
Old 8th May 2018
  #136
Deleted cec0d5b
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Of course the most common will be the 4th tier. People who buy the cheap clones and still don't make any music.
What's this "music" thing you keep going on about?
Old 8th May 2018
  #137
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncarnateX View Post
It is all great to me. As in “really great”. Nothing to moan about. Synths to the people. Only downside is that GAS is going to ruin me. But thanks anyway, Behringer. If I have to go down, this is the way to go
Once bitten!
Old 9th May 2018
  #138
Lives for gear
Looking around used, see a Juno 106 for $1750 USD in my 'hood and I think, bring it on Uli. This is ridiculous.
Old 28th August 2019
  #139
Here for the gear
 

All of their devices sound exactly the same. Sorry guys..... Days of a friggin synth costing as much as a new car are over. If you think a vintage arp 2600 is any better than a Behringer clone, you're fooling yourself, hipster.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #140
Lives for gear
 
DesolationBlvd's Avatar
This thread made me think of a very old post of mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesolationBlvd View Post
To put Behringer's ripping off stuff in a more positive light, it's really nice that Behringer is making clones of the old Boss pedals (Dimension C, etc) since Roland doesn't want to reissue them.
I take it back, Behringer cloned something I'm trying to unload (MS-20 -> K-2) and the potential buyer went to them instead of me.

That said, I'm holding out on the OB-6 until I see the UB-Xa - or whatever happens under the new Oberheim name, for that matter.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #141
Lives for gear
 
horseface's Avatar
“Democratizing analog synths”
“What a great time to be alive!”
“Disrupting”
“Don’t be so elitist”
“Sure, it doesn’t sound like the original, but it’s a modern take on the original”
“How can it sound like the original? Those are built with components that are now 40 years old”
“Nobody will hear the difference in the mix”
“It was released with bugs, but those will be sorted out in updates”
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