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Attack of the Behringer Clones
Old 5th May 2018
  #31
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robinkle's Avatar
I really like what Behringer is doing. They do cover a gap in the market, and at a very low price, prices so low that people still can afford other gear as well. Buying a Yamaha Montage or a Yamaha Montage and a Model D, doesn’t make much difference.
Old 5th May 2018
  #32
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its almost like behringer has something to prove but instead just proves it is what it always was , low end back door action , ]

it feels like behringer want a pISSING contest or are in one with themselves a bit to me
Old 5th May 2018
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by babsbosney View Post
its almost like behringer has something to prove but instead just proves it is what it always was , low end back door action , ]

it feels like behringer want a pISSING contest or are in one with themselves a bit to me
Nothing low end abouts its products just now. At the pricepoint theyre remarkably well made so far. Nothing low end about its X series of mixers either, best selling digital mixers in the trade and multi award winning.

As for being in a pissing competition with themselves...well that doesnt even make sense, on any level
Old 5th May 2018
  #34
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Low end back door action is hot
Old 5th May 2018
  #35
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by babsbosney View Post
its almost like behringer has something to prove but instead just proves it is what it always was , low end back door action , ]

it feels like behringer want a pISSING contest or are in one with themselves a bit to me
I reckon you'd be a right old expert on backdooring..
Old 5th May 2018
  #36
Deleted cec0d5b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
isn't the whole fun of synthesis to sit down and synthesisze your own sounds..?
Absolutely! And after spending hours crafting a "killer" sound, I want to be able to recall it at a later date easily. I don't think that's too much to ask for in 2018.
Old 5th May 2018
  #37
Deleted cec0d5b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
Cheap knock off only make the price of originals go up.
I think there's a distinct difference between a "cheap" (price) clone and a "cheap" (quality) clone.

The Behringer stuff looks to be solidly built, high-quality stuff. To call them "cheap knock-offs" is doing them a disservice.

Affordable? Absolutely.
Old 5th May 2018
  #38
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
I think there's a distinct difference between a "cheap" (price) clone and a "cheap" (quality) clone.

The Behringer stuff looks to be solidly built, high-quality stuff. To call them "cheap knock-offs" is doing them a disservice.

Affordable? Absolutely.
They’re cheap.

They’re knock offs.

They’re the cool cheap knock offs as of late, but there have been many before them and the same thing always happens. They bring awareness of the originals to the masses and the price goes up.
Old 5th May 2018
  #39
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Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by intuitionnyc View Post
Crazy output by Behringer announcing many clones of older Arp, Korg and Roland gear.

What are your thoughts? Any specific ones you are eyeing??? I am really curious about the MS-101 the most.
The vintage market is out of control as it is with any market selling dreams from the past, we traded old e-types and parts for a while from a barn in France and it's beyond mental just like the cost of a JP8 etc. I've had old in the past and don't want them anymore, the oldest synth I have now is the AJ - that's 86? That's bloody old enough thanks.

For me I'm going to get the 808 and the Oddy (IF they hit a mark when I handle them myself of which I have ZERO doubt that they will) and yeah I bought the korg at full price when it came out but I'm an oddy fan and I like the fact that this one has led faders and fx built in. I will place it on a stand with my Korg and it'll look and feel bloody fantastic as a pair with a light on in the corner. Pro1 and 101 could very easily be on the target too, that's kinda scary really that I could go from no B gear to 4 pieces

As for Behringer taking years of hard work and using it, I know there are issues with some but I see it as no different to anybody else who's done it for years albeit on a smaller scale. This way it reaches all fans of the gear AND those who have no grasp on the past, this entrance by Behringer into the market is offering options to pretty much everybody and not just those of us who earn more or those who have less commitments.

I'm by no means poor and this is the wrong game to play in if you are, especially when software is so good, I could very easily spend more but I will definitely favour spending less on a modern remake if I get the chance. Like many here I have a 4 person family, I also have to keep several properties and my hobbies are all expensive so anywhere I can save money I do, I'm the same with motocross, go-kart racing and my 3 cycling disciplines all of which cost a small fortune to be even half competitive, buying and playing gear is a hobby too so why should I treat it any different?

Rock on Behringer and that's coming from a Korg fanboy.

**Just hurry up and get em out so some people can slag em off a bit more and finally move on

Last edited by Jamie munro; 5th May 2018 at 02:34 PM.. Reason: Spellcheck
Old 5th May 2018
  #40
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
I think there's a distinct difference between a "cheap" (price) clone and a "cheap" (quality) clone.

The Behringer stuff looks to be solidly built, high-quality stuff. To call them "cheap knock-offs" is doing them a disservice.

Affordable? Absolutely.
The one and only reason why Behringer is able to deliver 'cheap quality 'clones , is because they produced 'cheap price ' clones for decades ..as we all know (yeah yeah they didn't lose any trial ..blah blah ..)
Let the big boys do the R.D. ..Mr.B will just copy paste it and make everyone happy , the majority doesn' give a rat's ass .( I do )

Synths and ethics ...
Old 5th May 2018
  #41
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
you know someone will do it, probably loads will.. maybe even Bobsbaloney or whatever he calls himself.
funniest thing ive read in a while , that's a much better pseudonym
Old 5th May 2018
  #42
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
Behringer Ferrari..


Wouldn't that be a Roland model?
Old 5th May 2018
  #43
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Behringer should do a complete synth bundle. For like £3000 you get a complete bundle of all their synths and a hardware mixer.
Old 5th May 2018
  #44
Gear Guru
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Behringer should do a complete synth bundle. For like £2500 you get a complete bundle of all their synths and a hardware mixer.
Nah, some folk round here would be tipped over the edge and likely start an ISIS for the west or something, tracking down owners to throw poo pies and attacking dealers with henna swords.
Old 5th May 2018
  #45
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grasspike's Avatar
The biggest issue with vintage analog synths from the 1970s and 1980s is that they break down and getting parts and or servicing them becomes more and more of a nightmare every day.

It used to be that if you wanted that sound you had to pay outrageously for one, and then keep your fingers crossed that it wouldn't break and if it did be prepared to toss it, hope you could fix it, or pay big bucks and wait many months for it to be repaired if they could find parts

That is no longer the case and as such the market for vintage analogs keeps on getting smaller and smaller
Old 5th May 2018
  #46
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Klonfocius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Nothing low end abouts its products just now. At the pricepoint theyre remarkably well made so far. Nothing low end about its X series of mixers either, best selling digital mixers in the trade and multi award winning.

As for being in a pissing competition with themselves...well that doesnt even make sense, on any level
View UliB approach the same way as printer manufacturer does. Testing market to see what sells and what does not. if not sell to a certain level of corporate measure they just eol the product. How many HP printers are there and how many are eol'ed? ULiBs approach is well thought out, not to make exact replicas of old but add a function here and there so delicate vintage people always can say new Bheringer is not exactly as old MS20.In other words the fact that television and tourism have made the whole world accessible has created the illusion that we enjoy intimate knowledge of other places, when we barely scratch their surface. For the vast majority, the knowledge of Thailand or Sri Lanka acquired through tourism consists of little more than the whereabouts of the beach.
Old 5th May 2018
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intuitionnyc View Post
It will also be nice to get the wanting of these recreations out of our system and move forward.
That's the main thing. There's a lot of great gear out now and people can't appreciate because of the fetishism that surrounds these synths.

This place in particular.

Overall its good for the vintage market. The prices will continue to climb, only need to look at the vintage guitar market to see that clones, reissues etc do not affect vintage prices.

This will be controversial, but vintage synth prices have yet to get out of control.
Old 5th May 2018
  #48
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trick fall's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
Wouldn't that be a Roland model?
Old 5th May 2018
  #49
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Suck up the clones, loosers

Old 5th May 2018
  #50
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I don’t see the big “classics” going down. There are fewer in good working condition out there every day, and more people being aware of them means more sellers ask higher prices and more wealthy collectors coming out of the wood work to buy them..

I’m not real concerned with it. I’ve already gotten rid of most of my vintage synths, not as a response to Behringer but as a response to not needing them for my work (gasp), maintenance, and the cheap vintage market is about cleaned up. I got into analog synths for one reason, because when i started buying synths they were the cheapest (with a few exceptions like real desirable stuff). $200 Junos, 101, Pro One, etc...all that stuff was worth it. But I’m not ever gonna pay $2000 for a Juno or whatever.

I missed out on cheap Minimoogs and wouldn’t want to pay to service them anyway...so a $300 Boog is great for me. Love it. I don’t need that sound enough to pay $3500 for a Moog, but for $300 if I use it on one cue it’s paid for itself.

Also missed out on cheap 808s.. I would probably get a Behringer 808.

Used to have a blue 101...didn’t really love it so won’t get a Behringer 101.

Used to have a Pro One...not sure how many monos I need laying around so probably won’t get a Bro One.
Old 5th May 2018
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
Suck up the clones, loosers

did you record that on unableton, the cloned version of ableton ?
Old 5th May 2018
  #52
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grasspike's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by haze015 View Post

Overall its good for the vintage market. The prices will continue to climb, only need to look at the vintage guitar market to see that clones, reissues etc do not affect vintage prices.

This will be controversial, but vintage synth prices have yet to get out of control.
The vintage guitar market is vastly different than. The vintage synth market, not only is the market massively larger, but you are buying products made from wood where the wood itself adds to the tone, and you are not worried about unobtainable voice chips dieing in your vintage Les Paul

The vintage guitar market is also way more mature, in the 1980s when people were giving away Minimoogs, 808s, 303s, etc people were paying big bucks for vintage guitars
Old 5th May 2018
  #53
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papoon's Avatar
 

Reading through the Behringer threads I think of the guitar industry. For example Gibson made hand made (carved top, set neck) guitars. Then fender came along and used a mass production model (bolt on necks). Now all these years later Gibson has it's Epiphone line which is a cheaper alternative and Fender has the Squire line. Both Epiphone and Squire could be considered cheap knock offs.

Despite Epiphone and Squire, the collectors market and prices of vintage guitars have been solid.

What we have is in my opinion two different concepts. One is the musician needing to work and having an opportunity based on his financial circumstance to acquire the best tools to do said work.

Needing the best car one can afford to get to work VS wanting specifically a 1963 corvette made in 1963.

The way I see it collectors are in a different type of market than the working musician or hobbyist. Finally you have those that have studios that use vintage gear to promote their studio to recording musicians. So different needs are being met by different manufactures.

*I realize Epiphone is owned by Gibson and Squire is owned by Fender. My point of using this example is that rehashing a design at a cheaper price does not take away from the original, rather it presents an option.

I bought a Moog because I needed a good synth and always wanted a Moog. I saved up for it and it felt great to go in and buy it, it made me happy. If I had the opportunity to buy an exact knock off with exact sound at half the price, I would have still bought the Moog. Could I have bought a cheaper mono synth and had money left over? yes, but that is not what I wanted.

I look forward to buying the Neutron by Behringer not because I need it but because the Price puts it into impulse buy territory. Plus it is analog and looks very interesting. Same for the 808 if it is inexpensive.

In other words "to each his own"
Old 5th May 2018
  #54
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marino's Avatar
Since I have just written a comment on KC on the exact same subject, I'll cross-post it here. Usually I don't do that, but I wouldn't know what else to add:

While I welcome the fact that many more musicians will be able to afford the classic vintage sounds (or something very close), I'm also afraid that Behringer will kill the business for the small manufacturers that are doing interesting new analog instruments, like Dreadbox, Hypersynth, MFB, Analogue Solutions, etc. They don't have the financial power to make and sell synths at such low costs, so if everybody is buying the Behringer stuff, they're likely to find themselves in trouble at some point, and/or to start thinking that designing new instrument isn't worth anymore.
Old 5th May 2018
  #55
I’ll admit, I was critical of this situation at first, but purely out of fear of what would happen to companies like DSI/Seq, Moog, and Studio Electronics; the small but quality manufacturing giants in our beloved industry.

TBH though, did Behringer destroy the guitar pedal market? They made some really good sounding analog and digital guitar pedals, basically clones, and sold then for next to nothing. The Behringer Space Chorus is a dead ringer for the Boss Dimension C pedal, and many others. All that really happened, was that people who either weren’t loaded bought them, or gigging musicians left there vintage pedal at home, and took the Behringer on stage. No biggie.

There was a lot of chatter on facebook from boutique eurorack manufacturers, outright saying that they were worried about the inexpensive Behringer eurorack modules coming. They (not gonna name names, but there were a couple that I know of) said the guitar pedal market is a hundred times what the eurorack market is. Still, I think its only opening up the market, lowering the price of entry.

I don’t even really get excited about Moog sound, but bought a Boog, and I really like it. I’m using it all the time now, and its a really great sounding monosynth. I think saying it sounds 90% is an understatement. Starsky Carr did a recent comparison, and honestly its almost indistinguishable from a vintage Model D, being no different than comparing an old Model D to an old Model D.

We’ve all been like, “WTF?” as Roland has rolled out mini digital ACB knockoffs of their own products. Roland could have easily done this. Dave Smit could have easily made a single Prophet 6 voice synth and called it a Pro One, but instead we get the Toraiz AS-1.

Its amazing that one can have a Model D, Pro One, Odyssey, and 101 for under $1500. What I’m excited for......is the POLYS!!!! Bring on the vintage analog poly clones!!! I like mono synths, but I love poly synths.

My dream setup would be a 101, an Odyssey, and a Matrix 12. A nice collection of FX pedals....and I could be make music forever.

As far as all the, “this is cheap crap” talk......well, TBH, if it breaks, I’ll just buy another. Behringer is offering a three year warranty if I remember correctly. I could buy twenty Boogs for what minty Model D’s go for. I can appreciate the guy that wants the original. I just wakt the sound though. I have kids, and they like to touch my stuff....regardless of how I threaten them.
Old 5th May 2018
  #56
Gear Addict
 

First of all, sorry for my rather poor English

Second, I give Behringer a STANDING OVATION for what are they doing

After ages of elitisim, overpricing synths to death just because the items have a formely hip and happening brand name on it, Behringer are doing high quality synths and products for everyone who loves music and wants to have a chance at last to have and play iconic synths from the golden age.


Now I LOVE THEM to start doing those high profile, legendary sought after POLYSYNTHS. They're about to release 3 mono/duo synths in a row, and probably later the 2600 as well

At the top of my wishlist, in no particular order

- Jupiter 8
- CS 80
- Memorymoog or Polymoog (love both)
- Rhodes Chroma
- Polykoboll II

- A wonderful Synth string (incl mellotron and chamberlin sounds, onboard effects, presets, etc)
- A Bass pedal synth (like Moog Taurus I)








Old 5th May 2018
  #57
Gear Maniac
 

Of all the other manufacturers, I think Roland stands to be hurt the most by Behringer clones. The 101, 808, and 330 were all recently "boutiqued" by Roland, and I don't see why anyone would buy a Boutique if they could have full-size, analog versions for a similar price. The Barp and Boog, clones of other manufacturers, may pose some competition for Korg and Moog, but those manufacturers still show a capacity for creating unique, desireable products. Roland, on the other hand, have amassed quite a collection of fumbles and missteps in comparison, maybe only recently turning the trend around with their tr8s. Basically, if you're a manufacturer that has made a living off of repackaging 40-50 yr old synth technology just for sentimental value, without modernizing for the methods that people want to use to make music today, you may be in trouble against the force of nature that is Behringer. Same goes for purveyors of digital emulations of old machines, especially when the real thing can be made available. But if you can create innovative products that help people make music in exciting new ways, there's room for everybody really.
Old 5th May 2018
  #58
Gear Nut
 
hypneurosis's Avatar
Everyone here does realize that the original inventors and manufacturers don't lose money when vintage synth prices are affected don't they?
Those companies sold all of their products and made the money they could off of them 30, 40, 50 years ago when they were new. End of story. Even something from a year ago that is out of production... it's done, it's over, they sold them all, who cares if the second hand prices drop?

If you want to say "oh but Company X has a reissue out currently and this will affect their sales of that", well, then that company is just doing the same thing that Behringer is doing or any other company cloning an extinct product. If this is going to slaughter their sales, then they obviously didn't do enough market research for their product. It doesn't matter if some incarnation of that company from decades past owned the rights to it, you still need to evaluate the market and your audience and plan accordingly. Build quality, components, features, modernized production, and most important volume of production. If you can't do that stuff right then you need to sort it out or your business will fail, period.

Competition is what drives business, and all of these long timers have been resting on their laurels for decades now putting out half assed gear. It's time someone came along and woke them up and forced them to be relevant again.
Old 5th May 2018
  #59
Deleted User
Guest
When is the Electronic Sackbut going to be cloned,
to commentate the great Canadian electronic music pioneer
that Bob Moog was inspired by?
(Yes it was a Canadian first)

Voltage controlled synth? 1948? oh my!
Old 5th May 2018
  #60
Lives for gear
 

Dear Admin,
could we have a sub forum for berhinger disruptor hearsay products section?
whilst its great that thay company is suposed to be putting out all these products, i think they could be grouped together and the main forum more about actual products or products near release..
thanks for listening and i hope something might be done.
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