The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Endless unproductive Software VS Hardware Bickering - Will it EVER end? Keyboard Synthesizers
View Poll Results: Will a hardware-only forum get rid of the endless bickering?
Yes - Make a new forum or rename this one and actively discourage the nonsense
13 Votes - 13.83%
No - Nothing you do will make the bickering stop, EVER!
33 Votes - 35.11%
Who cares?
48 Votes - 51.06%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

Old 10th January 2017
  #91
Lives for gear
 

I want it all, and I want to see it all, the good with the bad. Things are great the way they are. We live in the best of all parallel universes.
Old 10th January 2017
  #92
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
You made me curious:



$54.40 for a house? Bargain!

HP Virtual Museum: Model 200A audio oscillator, 1939

Alistair
That's $5M in current dollars in the SF Bay Area, currently, so yeah.

And to think, with one, small twist of fate, we could have been snarking about HP synths using our Roland laptops instead........
Old 10th January 2017
  #93
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
No, and no.
So negative?! Are you a video game code jockey, by chance??? I jest. But yes. That's what your eloquence feels like. To me that is.
Old 10th January 2017
  #94
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
So negative?! Are you a video game code jockey, by chance??? I jest. But yes. That's what your eloquence feels like. To me that is.
Your claim that all synths are computers is simply incorrect.
Old 10th January 2017
  #95
Gear Addict
 

The good thing about this board compared to others is that it remains controversial and interesting.
Hardware vs software is a very interesting struggle I'm having myself all the time.
The only thing here that annoys me are EDM newbie threads with silly questions.
Old 11th January 2017
  #96
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
So negative?! Are you a video game code jockey, by chance??? I jest. But yes. That's what your eloquence feels like. To me that is.
Your claim that all synths are computers is simply incorrect.
No you are simply wrong.

This is fun! Your turn! See you tomorrow, bring candy.
Old 11th January 2017
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
No you are simply wrong.

This is fun! Your turn! See you tomorrow, bring candy.
I'm bringing some popcorn.
Old 11th January 2017
  #98
Lives for gear
 
Klonfocius's Avatar
 

All computers are synths!
Old 11th January 2017
  #99
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
Sometimes I think they need to just rename this forum software-music-instruments-software-music-production
Or more accurately software-vs-hardware-instruments-software-vs-hardware-music-production.
Even when you are just trying to discuss a particular hardware unit (like headphones) it becomes software vs hardware pissing match. EVERY single thread about hardware becomes a hardware vs software pissing match. Trying to navigate this forum for useful and informative feedback about something hardware becomes a total waste of time and effort because you have to sift through tons of this off-topic thread derailing garbage.

Are there any solutions?
There is an entire forum for computer music where people can happily go on about computer stuff without their threads being constantly derailed with arguments from hardware users.
So why isn't there a hardware only forum?
The idea of splitting up this forum has come up before and I opposed it in the past. My attitude has changed and now I think enough is enough. The bickering is endless and its turning this forum into a joke where once it was a useful resource for info on gear.

So lets revisit this idea...
Or move it to moan zone
So really your saying these software hooligans are ruining our forum...

The problem has already been solved:




Old 11th January 2017
  #100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern View Post
So really your saying these software hooligans are ruining our forum...

The problem has already been solved:




no what I'm really saying is that threads are derailed to the point that it defeats the purpose to even start a thread and that something in the way of moderation needs to happen. I'f you read back a few posts you'll see the mods are providing something useful that may be a big help.
Old 11th January 2017
  #101
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
no what I'm really saying is that threads are derailed to the point that it defeats the purpose to even start a thread and that something in the way of moderation needs to happen. I'f you read back a few posts you'll see the mods are providing something useful that may be a big help.
If your referring to tagging it will not stop Hardware threads being wrecked...

All that will happen is you will see only tagged threads of your preference wrecked or not...

Old 11th January 2017
  #102
Lives for gear
 
gremlin moon's Avatar
 

One thing I've observed/read here is that some of the most hardware enthusiastic are professional computer programmers -- the case of you don't want hamburgers for dinner when you work at McDonalds. I think this has played a role in the rise of new modulars. Similarly, with all of the electrical engineers and the like into electronic music you would initially think that DIY kits would be more popular than they are but again probably a case of seeming too much like work.
Old 11th January 2017
  #103
Deleted User
Guest
all computers are...................................................................................................computers........................
that took........................me..................a ................bit!
Old 11th January 2017
  #104
Lives for gear
 

Seriously, I'm interested in SimoninAustralia's reasoned discussion of why some synthesizers are not computers, I hope it will prove enlightening. I am not here to battle, only to learn.
Old 11th January 2017
  #105
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Seriously, I'm interested in SimoninAustralia's reasoned discussion of why some synthesizers are not computers, I hope it will prove enlightening. I am not here to battle, only to learn.
Prepare for disappointment.
Old 11th January 2017
  #106
If it's an analog synth with no MIDI I don't see how there's any computation going on. I'm no electrical engineer but my limited knowledge and instinct is telling me this. I could be wrong.
Old 11th January 2017
  #107
Lives for gear
 
DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu View Post
If it's an analog synth with no MIDI I don't see how there's any computation going on. I'm no electrical engineer but my limited knowledge and instinct is telling me this. I could be wrong.
Electronics is basically "physical maths", a way of implementing functions and algorithms using mathematics and logic outside of the purely abstract (incidentally, that's what computers do). Think about all the things that can be done with analogue electronics, e.g. things like television, navigation systems, analogue general computers, or indeed synthesizers.

Sorry, totally off topic, but interesting nonetheless. Any further discussion should probably be in its own thread...
Old 11th January 2017
  #108
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by plaid_emu View Post
If it's an analog synth with no MIDI I don't see how there's any computation going on. I'm no electrical engineer but my limited knowledge and instinct is telling me this. I could be wrong.
This.

Not sure why someone would really think that all synths are computers, 'if' that is what they really think.
Old 11th January 2017
  #109
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
Electronics is basically "physical maths", a way of implementing functions and algorithms using mathematics and logic outside of the purely abstract (incidentally, that's what computers do).
So anything that is built from electronic circuits is a computer?

Nah.
Old 11th January 2017
  #110
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
Sorry, totally off topic, but interesting nonetheless. Any further discussion should probably be in its own thread...
No apology necessary. One goal of this thread was to track just what percentage of postings were off topic to on topic. The fact that you are a very considerate person is really cool though
Old 11th January 2017
  #111
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
...
Have you noticed it is not just some insecure software users that do exactly what you say. Examples:

The new MPC threads have had the DSI fanboys dumping Toraiz and "crime against an elderly swing beat programmer" into multiple pages of those threads.

When multiple gearsluts confirmed they had to return a well known makers products due to impossible interface issues, the fanboys strike again.

Your best bet is to put them on your ignore list, it instantly achieves what you want...

Please try it and see...

Old 11th January 2017
  #112
Lives for gear
 
Diametro's Avatar
 

Until there's a third paradigm, no ...
Old 11th January 2017
  #113
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern View Post
Have you noticed it is not just some insecure software users that do exactly what you say. Examples:

The new MPC threads have had the DSI fanboys dumping Toraiz and "crime against an elderly swing beat programmer" into multiple pages of those threads.

When multiple gearsluts confirmed they had to return a well known makers products due to impossible interface issues, the fanboys strike again.

Your best bet is to put them on your ignore list, it instantly achieves what you want...

Please try it and see...

I totally see your point and I did actually try this for awhile. It began with a particular heckler and then escalated to include those who I found regularly derailed threads. In the end it became too much of a temptation to keep ignoring until it became self-defeating to continue. I don't do it anymore. So I sift through the muckery like everybody else now.

Maybe it would be somewhat useful to have a fanboy flag? I think you have a good point here about the fanboys. That may well be the real locus of the issue.
Old 11th January 2017
  #114
Gear Maniac
 

yeah we're getting to the bottom of it this friday
Old 11th January 2017
  #115
Lives for gear
 
SonicBern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
I totally see your point and I did actually try this for awhile. It began with a particular heckler and then escalated to include those who I found regularly derailed threads. In the end it became too much of a temptation to keep ignoring until it became self-defeating to continue. I don't do it anymore. So I sift through the muckery like everybody else now.

Maybe it would be somewhat useful to have a fanboy flag? I think you have a good point here about the fanboys. That may well be the real locus of the issue.
Well done for trying

Sorry it did not work for you...
Old 11th January 2017
  #116
Lives for gear
 
mamero's Avatar
1. There is well made and poorly made Hardware.
2. There is well made and poorly made Software.
3. Use what you like.
4. Get on with you life.
Old 11th January 2017
  #117
Lives for gear
 
DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
So anything that is built from electronic circuits is a computer?

Nah.
I did not say that. If you're actually interested and want to discuss the subject with arguments other than "no" and "nah", why not open a thread.

As for the actual topic at hand, I don't know what's the best way to go about it, but I'm all for reducing the SW vs HW bickering (not all that's said relating to it is bickering, but the useful points made are usually drowned out by noise).
Old 11th January 2017
  #118
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
I did not say that.
That seemed to be the implication of your post, that they do the same things, seemed to be implying, like the OP, that they are computers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
If you're actually interested and want to discuss the subject with arguments other than "no" and "nah", why not open a thread.
Nah.
Old 11th January 2017
  #119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
As for the actual topic at hand, I don't know what's the best way to go about it, but I'm all for reducing the SW vs HW bickering (not all that's said relating to it is bickering, but the useful points made are usually drowned out by noise).
I'm actually quite pleased in the fact that this thread itself has not completely devolved into said bickering except in a few small instances. If it survives the next 10 hours until the voting ends without any more it may just prove to me that there's hope for Gearslutz after all and that I'm fussing over nothing at all
Old 12th January 2017
  #120
Lives for gear
 

So, look at what makes an analogue "waveform" -- saw core or tri core, doesn't matter.

Basically, it's a capacitor charging, reaching a certain point of charge and then being released -- the edge of the waveform (the drop-off point after the rising ramp of a rising saw wave, or vice versa, depending on how it's designed; a tri-core-based oscillator simply has relatively linear rise and fall times, with the fall precipitated, again, by the discharge of a capacitor).

My point there is that that, right there, that capacitance behavior -- is exactly what all computing is, essentially, based on, too. State change, simple as that.

Everything beyond that core representation is simply a concatenation, a congerie, a congenial combination of conformal changes, if you will... sorry, I'm out of c's..... of the same, basic principle.

So, whether it be an analogue synthesizer, or a digital one, the same processes are taking place, one represented through simple electronics component state changes, the other represented through state changes occurring in the bazillion transistors jostling each other merrily within a CPU, or DSP, or BMC or ESC2 FPGA or what have you. Those transistorial state changes are being combined to represent the equivalent behaviors from an engineering circuit point of view as the same behaviors that occur within the activities of the more primitive, capacitor/resistor/diode-based neanderthal circuitry of the pre-digital era. Sufficient resolution has been achieved in such transistor-based state change representations of pre-transistor-based state changes in "analogue" circuitry that the actual difference in the final, electronic outcome is now nearly invisible, at least when designed by the hands of true engineers who understand both the mathematics of circuit design and the subtleties of the desired behavior, all of which can be emulated and compared in exquisite detail during realtime analysis with current technological capabilities.

That's how I see it, at least.

I await edification, correction and clarification from electrical engineers who understand all this better than little I (or capital I representing little I, me, by any other name).

Anyways, the thing that REALLY matters in all this, absolutely above all, is slew rate. We haven't even begun to discuss that here on GS........ and it is the secret sauce to everything. Absolutely everything.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump