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Amaj7/B
Old 12th February 2007
  #91
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it's been interesting to watch this thread... and while it's given some insights into the way some approach chord construction.... IMHO it's ignored one important FACT.... slash/hybrid/polytonality... dosn't exist!!!

while for personal analysis it might be useful but on an objective reality basis it's true they dont.... because we as listeners can only percieve in the present tense... what tones are we experiencing at any given moment in time.... and whether you as a perfomer choose to simply play the "upper structure" is irrelevent to the music as a whole... the ear can only hear the sound in it's totallity... and the mind then interprets(in this case) the B as the root of the chord whether you want to acknowledge it or not...
Old 28th March 2008
  #92
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I'm bringing back this thread because I recently saw Amaj7/B called "A7+/B."

It is exactly the same chord, hand position and finger placement as Amaj7/B.

What I don't understand is why I keep seeing this and other chords that are exactly the same, but written in different ways.

Why is there no standard way to write any chord? I think it's about time I got a guitar teacher and began studying music theory. Perhaps the answer is there, and perhaps there is no one answer (my guess).

For the sake of brevity, keep the arguments over right and wrong to a minimum.

Thanks!
Old 28th March 2008
  #93
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henryrobinett's Avatar
If someone wrote the chord A7+/B and meant AMaj7/B they were wrong. Are you sure they're supposed to be the same chord? That's an entirely different chord.

The problem is it takes years for standardization. It took hundreds of years to get piano and violin, etc language standardized as well as what we know of as theory. This language today is taken from jazz terminology which is less than a hundred years old, and really since the 40s and REALLY only since the 60s that any kind of standardization has been attempted. Pretty good if you ask me.
Old 28th March 2008
  #94
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A7 symbolizes a dominant type chord - A, C#, E, G, -- a chord with a major 3rd and a flatted 7th. The plus sign (+) indicates it's an augmented chord, which generally means the 5th of the chord is raised a half step. So this would be an A7 with a raised 5th degree - A, C#, E# (F), G, with B in the bass.

"+" does NOT mean "add," as in C add 2. That would not be written C+2. It means "augmented".
Old 28th March 2008
  #95
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pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
If someone wrote the chord A7+/B and meant AMaj7/B they were wrong.
Old 28th March 2008
  #96
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Yep, Henry is right. A7+/B would normally be read as A dominant 7th with an augmented 5th and a B in the bass. I can only assume that whoever wrote that intended the + sign to signify augmenting the 7th (resulting in a major instead of dominant 7th) rather than augmenting the 5th, but to most people reading it without an accompanying fingering diagram or actual note layout would play it augmenting the 5th and not the 7th. So chalk that one up to shoddy or ignorant notation by the author.
Old 28th March 2008
  #97
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This is what the online instruction website shows for A7+/B and Amaj7/B.

I'm PAYING them for this?? And they're WRONG???
Attached Thumbnails
Amaj7/B-amaj7-b.png  
Attached Images
Amaj7/B-a7-b-.png 
Old 29th March 2008
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
This is what the online instruction website shows for A7+/B and Amaj7/B.

I'm PAYING them for this?? And they're WRONG???
Yeah, I'd say find yourself a new instruction site.
Old 29th March 2008
  #99
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
This is what the online instruction website shows for A7+/B and Amaj7/B.

I'm PAYING them for this?? And they're WRONG???
they need to do their home work.
Old 29th March 2008
  #100
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theres major and theres minor, ... thats it. everything else is just " decoration ".
it really looks way more complicated than it is, the theory is understandable when you really do it in a few month. i would stick to major and minor without any extensions first, if you can fly around in all keys youll witness yourself how the gaps in your brain are getting less.

practice, practice, practice
Old 29th March 2008
  #101
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Kind of true. I add the dominant 7th to that. Those are the big three in my book, -- major, minor and dominant 7. For me most everything else is decoration.
Old 29th March 2008
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 View Post
they need to do their home work.
They do at least have a way to submit corrections if you find something wrong. I sent them a correction showing the notes that should be in A7+/B. We'll see if they do anything about it.
Old 29th March 2008
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Kind of true. I add the dominant 7th to that. Those are the big three in my book, -- major, minor and dominant 7. For me most everything else is decoration.
Aren't you a jazz guitarist? I tend to think that half the chords in any given jazz tune are decorative, moody and often elaborate. All in a good way - depending on who's playing them.
Old 29th March 2008
  #104
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you got a melody, you got the chords, you put the melody into the chords and your half way home.

learn the basics before you want to think about the "complex" stuff.
Old 29th March 2008
  #105
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Jazz has nothing to do with it. It's the function of the chords. I was just teaching Day Tripper and Lively Up Yourself today in a guitar class. E7 is functionally a different chord than E. Yes there are a lot of decorative chords in jazz music, but that's not what I'm talking about.

A is not A7 in a similar way A minor is not A major, maybe with more subtlety, but similarly.
Old 29th March 2008
  #106
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Re complexity, you're absolutely right. But G7 is not complexity. G7b9+11 is complexity. G7 is a basic chord. Major, minor and dominant.
Old 29th March 2008
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up View Post
you got a melody, you got the chords, you put the melody into the chords and your half way home.

learn the basics before you want to think about the "complex" stuff.
No way, man! I'm already thinking about it because I like the sound of the complex, moody chords a lot more than the simple stuff. Rather, I should say I like simple and complex in the right combinations.

I have no problem with learning everything put in front of me, but yeah, it would be good to learn it in a structured way.
Old 29th March 2008
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
G7b9+11 is complexity
as long as you lemme play a Db7 over it, i am cool with that
Old 29th March 2008
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
No way, man! I'm already thinking about it because I like the sound of the complex, moody chords a lot more than the simple stuff. Rather, I should say I like simple and complex in the right combinations.

I have no problem with learning everything put in front of me, but yeah, it would be good to learn it in a structured way.
learn the basics or your doomed heh
Old 29th March 2008
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up View Post
as long as you lemme play a Db7 over it, i am cool with that
Old 29th March 2008
  #111
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oh @ of course HI @ henry ! if you dont mind share some of your thoughts about our lil beloved topic " music ". i am very interrested !

1,2,1,2,3,4 ...
Old 29th March 2008
  #112
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I share anything. But that's a very open and vague question. Too vague for me.
Old 29th March 2008
  #113
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i just hacked your name into google and read a lil summary about " what " your doing. i really would like to hear what a artist working that long thinks is " important ". i am almost a dinosaur as well, but your some years ahead. when you started out probably everything was different. what are you working on right now in that infinite field called music. the puzzle in my tiny head finally starts to make some sense, its so much fun and it just takes another 1000 years till i am happy sadly ( what can ya do ) i learned that stuff all by myself and i made every mistake you can do, never went to a school or was able to find a cool teacher. so i am HOT for everything
Old 29th March 2008
  #114
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Yes, things were different. I've gone into a lot of that recently in some of my posts around here in the past few weeks.

I call a lot of us home studio guys "Cubicle Musicians" meaning we sit around by ourselves and make music by ourselves with our DAW. This is much different, and I don't think it's MAINLY different in a good way. I think it's more harmful than good. I recently wrote a post about this that effectively killed a thread.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...ml#post1941031
Right now I'm playing primarily in a group called The Capital Jazz Project. I play free lance, which means people call me up to play or I get a gig and call some friends and gather whoever I can that's available. I teach music full time at a community college. I just started doing that full time this semester. I was just preparing to write a bunch of music and get my players to together for weekly rehearsals to get more gigs and record more CDs and just put them up on iTunes, etc. when I got this full time gig -- I'm teaching 7 days a week, so that kind of put a kabash on those plans temporarily.

I still try and practice a couple of hours a day. I much prefer playing and recording music with real musicians as oppose to chopping and quantizing and looping, although I do have fun doing that too!
Old 29th March 2008
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5down1up View Post
learn the basics or your doomed heh
Probably a good idea, but I keep finding gems that make me want to learn where the hell they came from and how they were put together with other pieces that make cool music. Make sense? I've got to be intrigued or it would be like studying geology or something purely academic. It's music, man!
Old 29th March 2008
  #116
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thanks!
here are some quick links to proof, that people tend to make everything worse than it really is, music ... doesnt suck today

YouTube - Esbjörn Svensson Trio - Serenade for the Renegade (Live)
YouTube - SIlje Nergaard - Be still my heart
YouTube - keziah Jones All Along The Watchtower
Old 29th March 2008
  #117
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No, I don't really think music sucks today. But I think that the process of making music is changing, which I think is ultimately not better for anyone.

I'll try and check those links out later. I'm mixing some tracks now.
Old 29th March 2008
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
It's music, man!
Thats so true, in the end all that counts, is that its music & that its fun. But there are a million of traps that make people throw the towel and stop doing it. Why ?
Because they dont proceed. How many people do i know who play the exact same ****** they played 20 years ago ? A lot !
The key to not getting frustrated is to be honest to yourself and to work on what you can NOT do. And in most cases it is the lack of basic knowledge. It is imo really painful to bring new information in our slow computer called brain.
If you start it youll witness how much your brain slows down your playing when you have to think. And who wants to " think " while playing ? I guess, nobody !
Cause theres a real high latency involved. But you got to start slow before you can speed it up or even reach the holy point of freedom to just " play " ( dreaming )

Its a real scary thought thats all it really is: 12 notes. Damn, it takes forever to figure out 12 notes ? Thats how clever we really are i guess
The beauty of it is coming with the years and experience. It simply adds another dimension which no piece of gear or anything else can provide. It just depends on how deep you dig the hole imo. I hope i have a lot of years left to learn, i enjoy it every day more and it is besides that it is art, academic learning and workout.

your fingers and your body make the movement, the rhythm and the tone,
your brain tells em where to go and your heart turns it into music !

I luv dat ****
Old 30th March 2008
  #119
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What? You didn't ACTUALLY have any questions? You just were asking what?
Old 30th March 2008
  #120
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Try:
or
e 9
b 9
g 9
d 9
a
e

OR

e
b
g 6
d 6
a 7
e 7
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