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You gotta read this!!
Old 15th January 2007
  #1
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Infernal Device's Avatar
 

You gotta read this!!

Anything like this ever happen to you guys???


Band contacts me. Likes my sounds, wants me to do the record.

I go to them (a state away) and talk. I tell them how I do things. They love it. they slammed their last recording and say they want the "big record sound".

I gave them a demo reel. They love the disc. "We want that sound" they say.

I went to them again, got the deposit and sat down so they could tell me anything that was important about the disc. They watched tv while I talked and ignored me.

The drummer wants to use his kit (clumps of mud of the kick, mold inside, toms with duct tape and snare lugs falling out, cymbals with cracks). I tell him if he liked the disc, use my kit. "nahhh, I want to use mine!" he says. I warn him it will not sound good. He says "Yea, well whatever, I record them in my living room and they sound cool".

I say "Fine, but it needs cleaned and new heads". He brings up new heads, the cheapest ever made, and are warped from sitting in his hot car for a week.

Everyone is at least an hour late for every session (Even though they stayed at a hotel 5 minutes away).

Drummer gets drunk and becomes "producer" telling guitar player what to do. Guitar player says that we should listen to the drummer.

Guitar player, late for sessions, decides to write all parts while in studio, leaving about 5 minutes for getting sounds. Writes about 9 parts for every song.

Bass is not bad, but sloppy.

I mixed, and touched up and got it to sound like a good sounding project. People give praise and say it sounds great.

I mail mixes to band. They hate them. "We don't sound like that at all, it sounds too polished" Me, "Whatever you want fixed, I will do. No problem."

I got an 8 page email that looks like they asked everyone they know what should be changed. Some things contradicted others. Not too much made sense.

I called and got more hints and did the changes. They called, "we don't like it. It doesn't sound like our live shows, we want it to sound like our first demo."

I did more changes and sent them all the raw files so they could get them remixed.

They post a blog on their website and call me dirty names. They said I was all about the money and didn't do anything they wanted. (I am wording it in a nice way here for you). They also said they are going to a "real" studio to redo the mess I made.

I got an email from them a few months later. "hey man, we lost the raw tracks. Can you send them again? We hope everything is going cool for you!!"

WHAT THE F?????? I copied their blog and sent it to them as a reply.

Let me also say, this is no garage band. They were on a major tour last year.
Old 16th January 2007
  #2
one thing you fail to mention is whether or not you were paid in full.
even if i were, i would be "hesistant" to help these people out. sending them a copy of the blog was a great move IMO
Old 16th January 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 
idylldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal Device View Post
Let me also say, this is no garage band. They were on a major tour last year.
Sorry, but you can take the band out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the band.

I don't care if they were "on a major tour last year," they're still T-ball level players when it comes to professionalism.

I agree that sending them their blog was a stroke of genius. I wouldn't give them the raw tracks at all. In this digital age (I'm assuming you recorded digitally), storing raw tracks doesn't seem to be the job of the studio anymore. I know plenty of studios who write on their statements that they are not responsible for archiving material past a certain time period unless they are paid for it.

Cheers,
Old 16th January 2007
  #4
Gear Addict
 
MX582's Avatar
 

man that type of sh*t pisses me off...
The last band I was recording with wasnt as bad but they didnt have their sh*t together when they came into record, they were HIGH all the god damn time and they had no vocals written for any of their songs..the singer would just go in the booth and moan for about 5 minutes..so i ending up writing the majority of the lyrics for them.
Old 16th January 2007
  #5
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Infernal Device's Avatar
 

Thanks for the responses, helps a lot!

Oh yes, I was paid in full, and I had sent them all the raw tracks already--they lost them.

Thanks guys!!
Old 16th January 2007
  #6
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roxxon's Avatar
 

I'd send them a copy of the polished master you did originally.
The one that they hated.
Tell them that's all that you saved.
That should make them,"HAPPY!"
Old 16th January 2007
  #7
Gear Addict
 
Durv's Avatar
 

man o man, it happens to everyone i think.
i've had bands not pay the remainder of the balance, yet use the demos rough copies to make a LOT of $$$. dont give them anything they havent paid you for.
Because of their BLOG, they already did you a disservice. its not like they can "take it back" ...so the damage is done.
I stopped dealing with those band memebrs who are of that "type".
I wont talk, messege, or deal with them in anyway...the band actually got rid of the one guy...so i am willing to record them again. This time PAID IN FULL in ADVANCE.

But, i must say ONE thing, i've been on the FLIPSIDE of the situation....i went to THE BEST studio in town... paid $1000 and got the worst piece of **** demo my old band ever heard. 3 songs. into the garbage. And we were disgusted with ourselves, and each other. It made it worse that this studio was so "praised" and we had high hopes. apparently its NOT the studio, but the engineer the other bands got....because we got an idiot behind the controls.


We tried to book more time there a couple years later, the band just REFUSED...diferrent engineer, but a horrible experience.
But, we didnt "talk $hit" ...just didnt go back.

...and i started recording.
Durv

edit: always point out to the band, WHY they arent getting any "favors" ...perhaps they learn a thing or 2. i would also make sure you mention the band to other studios if you think they will do the same thing to other people. save us all some trouble!

Last edited by Durv; 16th January 2007 at 04:12 PM.. Reason: forgot to mention something
Old 16th January 2007
  #8
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idylldon View Post

....you can take the band out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the band.

Good one. This belongs in your sig!

DP
Old 16th January 2007
  #9
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Kris's Avatar
Wow...

I once recorded a horrible band with a similar p.o.s. drum kit and p.o.s. drummer. Come mix time he walked in with 2 cds. He wanted the snare to sound like Green Day, and the bass drum to sound like Dream Theatre!!!!

People (can) suck!
Old 16th January 2007
  #10
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dave-G's Avatar
What you have described is commonly referred to as "music production" and "mixing".

There are varying degrees of this type of behavior and psycho-social dynamic on every single project you will ever work on. It's a wide spectrum. Sometimes it's great, but, it sounds like you got a particularly low-on-the-bell-curve episode this time, and that blows.

Rent the DVD of Metallica's "Some Kind of Monster". 90 million albums sold, a 40k/month shrink and some esoteric therapy-speak, and you can still feel the "garage" going on.

My "none-of-my-business" advice, which you should feel free to ignore: Keep your head up, and if they were entitled to the raw tracks before, charge them a nominal fee to make copies for them, and send them along without further shaming (pasting the blog quotes, etc). The high road is yours for the taking, and their further efforts on the raw tracks might show you in hindsight to have been a genius and a mensch.

-dave
Old 16th January 2007
  #11
I did two songs with a band in july with my kit (tuned, new heads, good cymbals) and two more in november with the drummer's kit (um, piccolo snare with the coating beat off, pock marked ****ty tom heads you know)

so I get the obligatory phone call, "hey man, can you make the drums sound like they did on the first two? This session doesn't sound as good"

WELL NO ****! Remember me begging you to use my kit?
Old 16th January 2007
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

I wish this was an unusual thing in the studio biz.

I had a band mad at me for taking so long, I had to remind them that they wasted 6 sessions trying to get the gtr player to play 1 part. and Im holding them back? you just got to cut your losses.
Old 16th January 2007
  #13
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AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Going thru something similar right now. Almost the same exact story. Only difference is that I didn't get paid in full beforehand because the client was my boss at work at my day job!

I have a court date for the remaining amount he owes me in February. I had to quit the day job too, cuz my manager tried to f*cking steal money from me! He even pressed up the album all ready using my mixes. F*CKER.
Old 20th January 2007
  #14
you own copyright of your mixes...just saying.
Old 20th January 2007
  #15
Gear Addict
 
alnico's Avatar
 

F**k the money. Don't ever take on a project that you know is going to be disaster. It's never worth it in the end. You had plenty heads up to know what was going to work or not. You're smarter now after this BS. Hope you come out alright in the end.
Old 20th January 2007
  #16
good point.

I had one guy track all day...took his sweet time scheduling the overdubs...

during which "It sounds like the bass is clipping..."
"nope, I watched the levels the whole time, do you want me to pull up the waveform?"
"maybe it's the preamp"
"all the drums were on the same pres and your guitar."
"oh..."
"that's actually how that bass sounds DI, do you want to redo the whole bass part? that's going to wind up taking at least 4 hours more..."
"No."

bass player LOVED his tone.
Old 28th January 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal Device View Post
Thanks for the responses, helps a lot!

Oh yes, I was paid in full, and I had sent them all the raw tracks already--they lost them.

Thanks guys!!
you fulfilled your responsibilities. you cannot be held responsible for failure to bank/archive their tracks after the client engagement is over. if they lost the tracks, they need to go re-record their album; tough ****e to them.

i have a friend who runs a commercial studio, and he deletes the sessions pretty much as soon as people are out the door. if they want the tracks, they can bring their own drive and pay studio time to do the file transfer; otherwise, they're S.O.L. it pisses some clients off, but mainly because they failed to take responsibility for their own project.
Old 29th January 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixapphire View Post

i have a friend who runs a commercial studio, and he deletes the sessions pretty much as soon as people are out the door. if they want the tracks, they can bring their own drive and pay studio time to do the file transfer; otherwise, they're S.O.L. it pisses some clients off, but mainly because they failed to take responsibility for their own project.

what a paragon of customer service.

proving to paraphrase someone above:
you can take the studio out of the garage but you can't take out the asshole running it.

I'm, personally, in the business to make records and music... not to "teach responsibility"


to get back on point, I think I would chalk them up to a bad experience, except for their bad mouthing YOU in public.
To that, I think I would make it clear to them they can't do that without expecting consequences.
...like you naming names as well, or posting YOUR experience on the net.
Old 29th January 2007
  #19
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xmostynx's Avatar
 

you know..i was reading an article about a pretty well known live sound engineer.
a very good one, he said the first thing he does in a mix is remove his ego.
a good mix doesn't have room for a large ego..

a good band doesn't either.
all the people i've met so far in these 21 years, the ones that have the most, have the smallest ego..and so do the people that surround them.

nobody enjoys working with egos-anyone ever seen 'some kind of monster'
they all sound like bitches-little bitches-

who would want to work in that room? not me-

your first hint was them watching television-if anyone was going to sit there and watch the tube while we discussed a recording contract-would of gotten-'well guys i'll see you when your ready to record' and i would of went home.

i met some kids here, (they are on this forum too) in pittsburgh that wanted to record..but their ego's wouldn't let them have an engineer who was okay in beat detective...no bass player-but all top notch pre's and mics..they where sitting in a room looking like they wanted to be used.

its almost been a year-and i haven't seen them anywhere...why? i bet their ego's stopped them from being a band.


ego in music is like trying to drink and drive-it doesn't work out to well.

keep the polished demo-write it off as exp. but remember a band should be so excited to record an album that they can't sleep...!!
Old 29th January 2007
  #20
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absrec's Avatar
 

I feel for you, brother. What a bunch of losers! I have to say that I have never had a record go down that way. I've had some people with unrealistic expectations, but nothing to that extreme.

You're in Pennsylvania, right? I grew up in northeast PA. I remember reading about another band you produced last year or maybe even the year before. It was the one where the drummer had the snare drum with no snares and a piece of PVC coming out of the side. It just reminds me of why I left PA., and only go back to visit my folks once in a while. Everyone listened to either metal or country.

Hang in there. It sounds like you are dealing with it the best you can.

-Aaron
Old 29th January 2007
  #21
what's wrong with metal?

Or Country?

I already know, I just want your answer lol
Old 29th January 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Infernal Device's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by absrec View Post
You're in Pennsylvania, right? I grew up in northeast PA. I remember reading about another band you produced last year or maybe even the year before. It was the one where the drummer had the snare drum with no snares and a piece of PVC coming out of the side.

-Aaron
I am in PA. Funny thing, I DO remember the thread you are talking about, but it was not me.

Small world.
Old 29th January 2007
  #23
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xmostynx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal Device View Post
I am in PA. Funny thing, I DO remember the thread you are talking about, but it was not me.

Small world.
where in pa?
Old 29th January 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
heyman's Avatar
Damage is done. They bad mouthed you. You gave them the raw tracks. You gave them a cd of final mixes and your signature sound.. That is what they asked for..


I love the fact that you copied the blog.. Guys like that wont get far. Yes, they were on a major tour, but they sound like they have diarhea of the mouth and will end up fuking themselves in the end.

Good riddance..
dfegad
Old 29th January 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
heyman's Avatar
This will make you fell somewhat better. I just recorded a band of guys age's 18- 20... I asked them to be well rehearsed and to change drum heads and all that stuff.


The drummer brought his set in and we had to tune it. No big deal right?

Well for one, numbnuts left his drums sitting on his basement floor - his sister overflowed the bathtub upstairs. The fukin drum shells were sitting in water..

Hey lets tune up that Bass drum properly.. Nope...hmm, whay are the tuning lugs popping off the shell?
Could it be that you fukin warped the drum shells?

3 hours later...

FuK ME.. This is the type of bull**** that gets me.. Cleaning up someone else's mess. If your drums arent good, dont fuking bring them..
Old 29th January 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
 
xmostynx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heyman View Post

FuK ME.. This is the type of bull**** that gets me.. Cleaning up someone else's mess. If your drums arent good, dont fuking bring them..
hhahaha frankenstein drums!

haha your picture kills me
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