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POLL : Heavy metalcore best mix Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 9th June 2006
  #61
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heathen's Avatar
 

Errrr umm ,did you try it? I did'nt think so. Now Ryan this IS what audio engineering is sometimes about, being able to try and fix things which were tracked poorly and trying anything to fix it. Now when playing power chords which is all this type of music uses most often, you are only using 2 strings when playing power chords Ryan, so autotune does have an opportunity to work,especially on the long single notes which were most noticeably out to me. As I said I felt it helped, I hav'nt had enough spare time to test tuning and pitch afterward, but when i put the auto tune plug on the guitar track ( can't remember which one) it instantly felt better to my ears.
Hey Ryan are'nt you gonna post a mix?
Old 10th June 2006
  #62
Gear Addict
 
Eide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heathen
Now when playing power chords which is all this type of music uses most often, you are only using 2 strings when playing power chords Ryan, so autotune does have an opportunity to work
Hey heathen, last time I checked autotune was monophonic, so in theory if you feed it with two different notes at once it wouldn't know which one to use as a reference for getting the track in tune. However I'm with you on that it's one of those plugs that you just have to strap on to the track and see if it works or not. I've used autotune on the weirdest things with good results, also guitars playing power chords - but it definitely does not work each time. However, there is no rules here -just, as you said, to fix whatever needed to make the song right.



-Wick.
Old 10th June 2006
  #63
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hourglass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heathen
Errrr umm ,did you try it? I did'nt think so. Now Ryan this IS what audio engineering is sometimes about, being able to try and fix things which were tracked poorly and trying anything to fix it. Now when playing power chords which is all this type of music uses most often, you are only using 2 strings when playing power chords Ryan, so autotune does have an opportunity to work,especially on the long single notes which were most noticeably out to me. As I said I felt it helped, I hav'nt had enough spare time to test tuning and pitch afterward, but when i put the auto tune plug on the guitar track ( can't remember which one) it instantly felt better to my ears.
Hey Ryan are'nt you gonna post a mix?

First - I have tried it. It doesn't work.

In the context of this song, the guitars are not doing anything autotune could lock onto. And - if they did lock onto something, as someone else already said, they would take the multiple notes of the chord and make some frankenstein-tone which wouldn't relate to the original intention.

Second - My mix is coming. I just finished getting the files today - the link is really slow for me. Give me to the end of the weekend.

Third - please try to tone down any subsequent posts - I'm sensing you took this personally and you seem to be lashing out at me and "daring" me to post a mix.

I already said I wanted to post something but the deadline had passed. Look back a few pages. Now that I have some more time (and actual free time in my schedule this weekend) I'll give you something to listen to.

ryan
Old 10th June 2006
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Smith
Well, since the deadline was extended...
I had a little more time to mess with it last night, so I went ahead and reamped the guitars to get rid of the phase problems and get a more solid tone through the midrange. Sounds a lot better now IMO.

Matt's Reamped Mix

Matt
Sounds really good matt. what did you reamp it with?
Old 10th June 2006
  #65
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heathen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eide
Hey heathen, last time I checked autotune was monophonic, so in theory if you feed it with two different notes at once it wouldn't know which one to use as a reference for getting the track in tune. However I'm with you on that it's one of those plugs that you just have to strap on to the track and see if it works or not. I've used autotune on the weirdest things with good results, also guitars playing power chords - but it definitely does not work each time. However, there is no rules here -just, as you said, to fix whatever needed to make the song right.



-Wick.
Yep it is one of those weird programs which can save the day occasionally, but also can confuse things as well. Yeah you just gotta try some things.

Hey Ryan have a listen to my mix I can't hear any "frankenstein type tones" added by it, anyway. Being it has an instrument setting it is worth a go.
I'm not going to bother arguing further. I don't take it personally as I did'nt make autotune and did'nt track this song. Also tone it down, I did'nt know I amped it up. How is daring you to post a mix "lashing out"? C'mon mate chill out,why not dare each other, it's all fun. At least everyones having a go. Also keen to hear your take and perspective on a mix too, thats all.
Old 10th June 2006
  #66
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keiffer's Avatar
 

Mix 05C

Mix 06 - Growlier Bass Line

Last Update: 2006jun24

Sly, when all's said and done, please download my latest using this URL. I occassionally update this.
Old 11th June 2006
  #67
Gear Maniac
 
Matt Smith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by everybody's x
Sounds really good matt. what did you reamp it with?
Thanks man. That's my 5150, Mesa cab with Vintage 30s, SM57 into BAE312.

Matt
Old 11th June 2006
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Smith
Thanks man. That's my 5150, Mesa cab with Vintage 30s, SM57 into BAE312.

Matt
NIIIIICE
Old 12th June 2006
  #69
Gear Addict
 
hourglass's Avatar
 

I took a crack at it...

First - about me:

At my "day job" I fix computers. I record heavy music because I like it. Sometimes I get paid a few bucks to do a demo for a band, but most of the stuff I do these days is my own.

Second - about the mix:

I didn't use any triggered sounds. Nothing was reamped.

Everything you hear was recorded by Sly & his crew. However, you don't hear everything that they recorded. Get it? I didn't use all of the tracks.

What I did use:

Samplitude 7.
Lots of Samplitude EQ
2 instances of Waves C4
4 instances of Waves Renaissance Compressor
1 instance of Samplitude's Impulse based Room Simulator
1 instance of PSP Vintage Warmer.

The mix is not crushed. I'm not sure what the average level is, but it peaks at -0.55 for me. There's plenty of room for a good ME to tweak it and make it sound huge. As for now - if it's not loud enough turn up the damn volume knob. That's the same effect (with cleaner results) as slapping an L2 across the output buss.

Third -

This song kicks ass. I want to hear some more stuff from this band.


You can find my mix here:

Hourglass' Mix - MP3 version

If you want the 24-bit, 48kHz wave, that's here:
Hourglass' Mix - 24-bit Wav file

ryan
Old 13th June 2006
  #70
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hourglass's Avatar
 

I got a comment in the other thread saying "not enough guitars."

This is the mix I mentioned in my reply to that post... and I'm happier with it now since I've listened to it on a few different systems.

See if this is more in line with what you're looking for...

Hourglass' Mix 2 - More GTR

ryan
Old 13th June 2006
  #71
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SLy_drums's Avatar
 

Hey Ryan, you've done a great mix, I can't listen to the new version right now, because i'm at my work
:(
I'll do that tonight !

I'm glad you enjoyed the song
If you go there : www.stillrise.com, you'll be able to hear two songs from the old Stillrise stuff, when I wasn't the drummer of the band yet. The music is different today, and we are now writing new songs to record an album, maybe in december or something, it should sound a lot more in the mood of the song you mixed, heavier, tighter (I hope lol), etc.

All the comments you've done will be truly useful, I hope this forthcoming album to be great, as for the sound and music.


All the new mixes will be accepted until june 21, included. This is the definitive deadline.
Old 13th June 2006
  #72
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I'd really like to know what did you guys, thought of the engineering of this song ?

I'm 22 and really want to work in a studio as an engineer, that's my life dream. It's only 3 years I've been into recording, beginning wih crappy mics and pres etc.

It was recorded in our rising studio where we try to work in to improve our skills. We begin to work in it quite often since only 3 or 4 monthes. All the gear was bought by us, and all the money we earn goes into the studio.
You have to know we were very limitated by the room we recorded in, which is very small and doesn't sound live at all. Anyway we have good gear.

I know we did mistakes, and some were pointed out here. I largely took notes of what was said here. It's great to have such a feedback from all of you !

Did you enjoy mixing it ? Did you find the tracks crappy engineered ? What did you like/dislike ? What may I take in count for the next recordings i'm going to engineer ?

All the comments are welcome.
Old 13th June 2006
  #73
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hourglass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLy_drums
I'd really like to know what did you guys, thought of the engineering of this song ?

I'm 22 and really want to work in a studio as an engineer, that's my life dream. It's only 3 years I've been into recording, beginning wih crappy mics and pres etc.

It was recorded in our rising studio where we try to work in to improve our skills. We begin to work in it quite often since only 3 or 4 monthes. All the gear was bought by us, and all the money we earn goes into the studio.
You have to know we were very limitated by the room we recorded in, which is very small and doesn't sound live at all. Anyway we have good gear.

I know we did mistakes, and some were pointed out here. I largely took notes of what was said here. It's great to have such a feedback from all of you !

Did you enjoy mixing it ? Did you find the tracks crappy engineered ? What did you like/dislike ? What may I take in count for the next recordings i'm going to engineer ?

All the comments are welcome.

I think you did a really good job on engineering this.

First - the drum sounds you got are very, very good. I really don't see why so many people found a need to trigger stuff, other than that sort of thing has become the norm lately.

The only thing I had any trouble with as far as drums were concerned was the kick drum. The combination of the Beta 52 and the Beta 91 isn't a choice I would have made - and your Beta 52 placement sounds a little off to me, as if you put the mic too far into the drum.

Of course, it depends on the depth of the drum, but the pickup pattern of the Beta 52 is such that when you put it too far into most drums you are actually picking up a point under the drummer. In general (with 22 inch kick drums...) I find I can align the part of the mic where the grille screws onto to the body with the hole cut into the front head that gives me a great balance of beater and shell.

Then, rather than using a Beta 91 inside the kick drum, I would put something like a Yamaha subkick (or an LDC if you can't fashion a speaker-mic) on the front head, outside of the drum. That will give you the chest-crushing thud.

And, after all that, the only thing I had to do beyond my usual kick treatment was to clear up some of the midrange with a C4 plugin. I usually just EQ with the 4-band Samplitude EQ and that gets me there.

Next - the bass.

I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised by the Pod track. I almost didn't download it because I didn't think I would use it.

In the end, I used a combination of the 421 track and the Pod with a touch of the DI mixed in underneath. The Pod added some nice definition to the track which lets it stand out on the parts where he does little fills and slides, but it also lets it blend with the guitars so you can get that unified, huge guitar/bass sound like Sneap does. (Not saying I managed to get it like Sneap does, just saying I tried...)

The vocals -

All the tracks here are very cleanly recorded and I had no complaints. Once I got a good balance between the various tracks and sections all I had to do was pull my vocal submix fader up and they sat right where I wanted them.

The guitars -

These seem to have been the source of the most comments, and my observation here is KEEP IT SIMPLE.

On my mix I used TWO guitar tracks.

5150StefF_57 is panned hard left.
5150Tom_57 is panned hard right.

What I wish I had is another take of each guitar through the same setup.

You know - Have Stef play the 5150 with the 57 on it TWICE. Then have Tom do the same thing. Then I could get the guitars to sit forward without stepping on anything else. They would be a little thicker and a little more full so that subtracting some EQ here and there would be all you'd need. As it stands, I had to try some other tricks as well to get them in your face without masking the toms.

I can see where you were going by trying to get low-end by adding the Engl and Marshall setups, but that sound works in a different context. Cathedral pull that sound off very well, but you guys aren't going for the Cathedral sound.

And finally - The actual guitars themselves.

I don't think you have a tuning issue.

That's not to say it's not out of tune. It is. But it's not because you didn't tune the guitars.

One of the guitars has a pickup too close to the strings.
One of the guitars has ****ty pickups.

That might actually be the same guitar, might not be. However, in my experience you usually find ****ty pickups very close to the strings because that's the only way to get any power out of them...

The one thing I can say for sure is that Stef's guitar has ****ty pickups. They do not cut through anywhere near as well as the ones in Tom's guitar.

The pickup being too close to the strings affects the way the strings vibrate. I fought with this on a Les Paul during tracking one day, and wanted to smack myself when I finally realized, after tuning and setting intonation, what the problem really was. When mixed with the other guitars, that sounded exactly like what happened here on your song.

As for ****ty pickups, I hate them and I can pick them out from a mile away. I banished them from my studio long ago. If somebody comes in with a pickup which can't do the job, I hand the guitarist one of my guitars. They only bitch until they plug it in and hit a chord.

I enjoyed mixing the song. I also enjoyed hearing all the other mixes, too.

ryan
Old 13th June 2006
  #74
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SLy_drums's Avatar
 

Really great feedback, Ryan, I appreciate it A LOT !

I wanted the drums to sound more "live" but the room didn't give me what I wanted. Also I notice the room mic wasn't used in a lot of mixes, because it wasn't adding really something interesting.
I recently recorded in a killer room, and everything was different, so much air and breathing.
But I am quite satisfied with the drum tone for that song, except the bass drum one. You're right, that mic combination didn't work very well, and I found the two sounds to be a little muddy, I guess it's also the room... And surely the mic placement wasn't very good, as you said.

Bass is cool, we chose the API DI after trying some others (DTC, Pacifica, Chandler, Avalon...). The API was the best tone so far : amazing tight low end and a real meat. But the DI track has definitely too much string noise to it : I and a lot of you kept only the POD (which was routed into the Pacifica DI after messing up with its settings and finding the good tone) and the mic. This last one sounds very good, the amp was great and the bass too

As for the guitars, all the feedback you wrote is reallu useful : I'll tell the guitarists what you said.
During the recording, we noticed something was going wrong with the tune, and we first chose to use a Les Paul Custom guitar, but had issues with the strings, and not enough time to find another guitar. We decided to end up using the guitarists' guitars. Stef one was done by a friend of him, beginner in luthery, so we did a major mistake using it for a "pro" recording. Tom one sounded less cutting but more in-tune.
With that 5150 we instantly found the sound we wanted. Warm and brilliant, precise. I love that amp. In 90% of the cases, I'd use dynamic mics (57, 421 mostly...) or ribbons (R121). Condensers quite never give me what I want and tend to make the guitars to sound to flat and boring. The 5150 with a 57 and 121 in the TG2 was great !
The aim was to have many possiblities during the mix, so I decided to use several amps. The Engl was set on low gain, combined with a scooped EQ. I tried to check out that amp in the stereo picture, and it added some width and a more "metal" touch.
We had a few time free after that, and decided to use the JCM800 to test, but I was unable to find a right tone, didn't know what I was doing, really. We decided to keep it in case of.

Vocals :
Lio's vox is cool, but I'd get a clearer sound for him next time, choosing a brighter mic I guess.
Roms voice was tracked through an API pre, which ended sounding a little harsh in the mids.

Anyway I hope everything will sound fine ! And all those mixes are each time a pleasure to discover

Please continue to post your opinions about my engineering.
Old 13th June 2006
  #75
One more pass, bringing the vocals up a bit, using only the 5150 Royer tracks and the clean tracks reamped with Logic's Guitar Amp Pro.

Time to put this one to rest....

bleen's truly, finally final mix
Old 13th June 2006
  #76
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hourglass
The only thing I had any trouble with as far as drums were concerned was the kick drum. The combination of the Beta 52 and the Beta 91 isn't a choice I would have made - and your Beta 52 placement sounds a little off to me, as if you put the mic too far into the drum.
ryan

I think it was more the placement than the mics. I've used this combo before with great success.


I think everything else was recorded fine, cept the vocals (and my guitar notes above). They sounded very "offensive" at times in the upper mids. I had to use a couple de-essers on one of the tracks to tame it.
Old 13th June 2006
  #77
Gear Addict
 
hourglass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
I think it was more the placement than the mics. I've used this combo before with great success.
I'm not knocking the combination - I'm sure it's great for lots of things.

But what's true for a pop or rock song doesn't necessarily fly for extreme metal.

After all, how many guys took a stab at this and ended up saying, "It's not my kind of thing..." ?

I think you said it. I'm sure Faderjockey said it, too. And trust me, he knows how to mix. Check out some of the stuff he did for Max Mueller - that's some really nice work.

FWIW - I was getting fantastic "rock" sounds out of the kick drum tracks... all day long, all kinds of nice round kick drum sounds. But - I couldn't get that sumbitch to click to save my life. Click is IT when it comes to this kind of music.

It should knock kind of like your drunk uncle flicking you in the forehead. You get that with a well-placed Beta 52 in a quality drum. Or, you trigger somebody else's drum sound which was made with a quality drum being mic'd with a well-placed Beta 52... If you know what I mean.

ryan
Old 13th June 2006
  #78
Gear Nut
 

well, since the deadline is later now, I gave it a try...

There 's not much to tell about the mix, I guess, I just did some standard (ITB) stuff. I did do quite a lot of moving around with all the tracks, in an attempt to fix the timing and also the phase issues.
Attached Files

fadeout oneass.mp3 (4.94 MB, 150 views)

Old 13th June 2006
  #79
Gear Addict
 
hourglass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneass
I did do quite a lot of moving around with all the tracks, in an attempt to fix the timing and also the phase issues.
You're not the first person to say something about the timing...

But I don't hear it. It's a solid track. What needs to be moved?

ryan
Old 13th June 2006
  #80
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hourglass
You're not the first person to say something about the timing...

But I don't hear it. It's a solid track. What needs to be moved?

ryan

The guitars are all over the place if you really listen closely, and the drums drift in places too. Overall it's a pretty tight track though, but could be "tighter", especially the guitar performance.

About the kick, I've got that smack from the beta91 before, and use the 52 for beef. I might send you a tiny clip of something later....can't post it on here...
Old 13th June 2006
  #81
Gear Addict
 
keiffer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hourglass
... I was getting fantastic "rock" sounds out of the kick drum tracks... all day long, all kinds of nice round kick drum sounds. But - I couldn't get that sumbitch to click to save my life. Click is IT when it comes to this kind of music.
yeah, same here. I added just the top end click from the Sneap Kick Sample.

I was very pleased with the rest of the kit.

kp-
Old 14th June 2006
  #82
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hourglass
You're not the first person to say something about the timing...

But I don't hear it. It's a solid track. What needs to be moved?

ryan
Like djui5 said, it is pretty tight, it's just that it can use some help in some places - especially in the slow bits (tempo 157 bpm).
Old 15th June 2006
  #83
Here for the gear
 

Hello everyone, n00b here.

This is my first attempt, and also the first time I've ever tried to mix real drums.

http://www.muttleyville.org/download...erMuttley).mp3

I'm basically a dabbler when it comes to mixing right now, but I thoroughly enjoyed this.

I tried to keep a similar feel to the live version that was posted, and not get too mechanical with it (must be my punk background coming through ).

It was mixed in SONAR with mainly the default plugins (Sonitus:fx Compressor and Gate, and Cakewalk reverb), apart from an instance of Ozone 3 on the master (this is never gonna win so I "mastered" it myself, if you can call it that).

The Kick and Snare were gated and compressed (with a little reverb added to the snare), the Vox had a touch of compression and reverb, and the master had some more compression and Ozone 3. Also had a small bit of EQ on the Kick, Snare, Bass and vox.

I also only used the two 5150 w/ SM57 guitar tracks, with a bit of EQ to boost the mids a bit and remove some lows.

Oh, and I was limited to working on headphones due to my 9month old son being asleep in the next room. :(

Cheers

Muttley
Old 18th June 2006
  #84
Gear Nut
 

Hello,

thanks for letting me participate in this contest. My ITB mix is to be found here (ogg version) or here (mp3 version).

Please note that I did not use any treatment on the Stereo Out to leave such for the mastering stage.

Having played in a similar band, I personally enjoyed mixing that style of music. Do you have long discussions about the lyrics or did you abandon those and decide not to even print them and focus more on performance? Hah, I always enjoyed to act out my aggressions this way.

Being 22 years old as well and not earning money with sound engineering at all, I try to support local newcomers (I live in Germany) with my possibilities. This way I gain experience and the bands also profit out of that. Maybe there is going to be one day when I actually earn some money instead of throwing too much at it, like I do right now.

I am thankful for the experience i made with STILLRISE and hope that I get some feedback for my mix. I could also provide the high resolution file on another server on request.

Best Regards,
Krischan
Old 19th June 2006
  #85
Bij
Here for the gear
 

Hi everyone,

I had the time to make one more try :
Bij_MixContestStillrise

Here is the same one with a "bad joke" on the beginning :
Bij_MixContestStillrise_surprise.mp3


It's still mixed ITB with the same plugins and no re-amping.
Old 20th June 2006
  #86
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mu77ley
Hello everyone, n00b here.

This is my first attempt, and also the first time I've ever tried to mix real drums.

http://www.muttleyville.org/download...erMuttley).mp3

I'm basically a dabbler when it comes to mixing right now, but I thoroughly enjoyed this.

I tried to keep a similar feel to the live version that was posted, and not get too mechanical with it (must be my punk background coming through ).

It was mixed in SONAR with mainly the default plugins (Sonitus:fx Compressor and Gate, and Cakewalk reverb), apart from an instance of Ozone 3 on the master (this is never gonna win so I "mastered" it myself, if you can call it that).

The Kick and Snare were gated and compressed (with a little reverb added to the snare), the Vox had a touch of compression and reverb, and the master had some more compression and Ozone 3. Also had a small bit of EQ on the Kick, Snare, Bass and vox.

I also only used the two 5150 w/ SM57 guitar tracks, with a bit of EQ to boost the mids a bit and remove some lows.

Oh, and I was limited to working on headphones due to my 9month old son being asleep in the next room. :(

Cheers

Muttley

I've had another pass at this now and tweaked a few things. Much happier with the drums and bass now.

http://www.muttleyville.org/download...deOut-Mix2.mp3

Still all the original tracks, no reamping or samples.

Muttley
Old 20th June 2006
  #87
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EduardoApolonia's Avatar
 

Still working on mine.
Almost finished.
Old 20th June 2006
  #88
Here for the gear
 

Bah, gave in and did another quick pass. But this one IS final.

http://www.muttleyville.org/download...deOut-Mix3.mp3
Old 22nd June 2006
  #89
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EduardoApolonia's Avatar
 

Here is my mix

http://homepage.mac.com/eduardoapolo...y).mp3-zip.zip

Give me some feedback please.
I'll give more details of the mix later...

Eduardo Apolonia "Eddy"
Old 22nd June 2006
  #90
Gear Head
 

So what's the deal???
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