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Behringer making a wave at Superbooth 2018 Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 1 week ago
  #91
Gear Maniac
 

Real genitalia is still in demand, even though there are bazillions of knock-offs.
Old 1 week ago
  #92
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goom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhandy View Post
Real genitalia is still in demand, even though there are bazillions of knock-offs.
We need to ban bananas, corn on the cob, and zucchinis.
Old 1 week ago
  #93
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kim olesen's Avatar
 

I wish the 101 thing had memory.
Old 1 week ago
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
We need to ban bananas, corn on the cob, and zucchinis.
You better throw vienna sausages on that list too....moon
Old 5 days ago
  #95
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norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhandy View Post
Real genitalia is still in demand, even though there are bazillions of knock-offs.
Ohooo where can I get some?
Old 5 days ago
  #96
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimknopf View Post
As far as I'm informed, the old copy right status has ended, after some decades, for a lot of old analog gear.
Concerning moral questions, there are Pros and Cons.

Roland for one has done about nothing over many years, to revive their rich analog heritage. Instead they
- have misused old names for something completely else (JP-80)
- have produced extremely bad done modeling versions (SH201)
- have stopped developing their best modern synth (V-Synth GT)
- have flooded us with all their (mostly halfbaked) boutique boxes
- never have revived their analog 808, despite HUGE new demand since many years (nor have they revivied other x0x analog boxes)
- never have revived their analog Jupiters or even Junos
- never have revived their famous analog VP330 (and I regard their modeling attempt as complete sonic fail)

So, besides copy rights having run out, for a lot of decades old analog gear, even the moral dimension isn't remotely as clear, as you might think at first sight, in this case.

And even Moog, who have much more sympathy and support from my side (I will go on buying gear from them), also have made a big mistake, in hesitating much too long, before finally rebuilding the old Mini. And when they did, they did not do it in a way ending up with a musician's price of ~2000 bucks, but at a, what we in Germany call, "pharmacist" price: a luxury device in limited edition for wealthy people. I can get a polyphonic Prophet 6 or OB6 keyboard at that price, and Dave Smith isn't running a huge company either.

The original Minimoog had the exact opposite idea: to make a then complex and really expensive new technology available and musically useable for many musicians, at still a high, but affordable price. And after decades of technological progress it shouldn't be possible for Moog to offer it for ~ 2000 bucks, even if they don't have Behringer's low cost mass production capacities? I am not willing to buy that, in double sense. :-)

So no, I don't think this is about black and white, and that the moral dimension of the Behringer rebuilds can only be seen in purely negative terms. It's ambivalent at best. And no, it should not go as far as killing all creative competition in small companies. if Uli Behringer is as smart as I think, he can offer a lot, and still leave enough air to breathe for others.

yep, roland missed a ton of oportunities and they seem to be stuck in that boutique idea. maybe its a japan thing that they dont care that much about analog.(?)

as for behringer , i do find amazing that they did the deep mind, which is a offshoot of a famous synth but aded or changed things. that to me is progress and originality. same as the neutron, it looks and sound amazing.

but their clone/cheaper knockoff seem morally wrong. just as seeing shoes that say renike or nikey and have similar look to the originals. it just looks and feels like a cheap knockoff. if they did old clones of synth companies not around anymore then cool. reviving old soviet synths, old italian synths and other synths that went under a while back then that would be great. but cloning an 808, moog D etc is just gaining on others work and not having an original idea.
then again, your point of high prices is a good one. moog didnt want to undersell the D and then made a ipad app. roland still stuck in boutique world or random neon synths. but i still think with the deepmind and neutron and clone of old dead synth companies is a much better route.
but in the audio world seems we are still stuck in 1983 and everything is britsh style "73" preamp. clone of neuman u87 and thats it. so in the synth world it looks like we are going that way.
Old 5 days ago
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
but in the audio world seems we are still stuck in 1983 and everything is britsh style "73" preamp. clone of neuman u87 and thats it. so in the synth world it looks like we are going that way.
I think I mentioned in the Pro One thread that I believe we are at the end of an era of experimentation and approaching an era of refinement in the world of synthesizers (and, as you mentioned, other audio gear that was developed throughout the 20th century). I don't see it as consumers being "stuck" in a previous decade, but rather moving collectively towards best practices that have emerged after collectively deciding what best suits our needs as songwriters, musicians, and engineers.

The same thing happened with skateboards. Their basic design and technology was in constant flux from the 1950s to about the late 1990s, and since then they've remained almost completely unchanged. I don't think skateboarders are stuck in the 90s, I think they've accepted a best practice.
Old 4 days ago
  #98
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jimknopf's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanbeat View Post
I think I mentioned in the Pro One thread that I believe we are at the end of an era of experimentation and approaching an era of refinement in the world of synthesizers (and, as you mentioned, other audio gear that was developed throughout the 20th century). I don't see it as consumers being "stuck" in a previous decade, but rather moving collectively towards best practices that have emerged after collectively deciding what best suits our needs as songwriters, musicians, and engineers.

The same thing happened with skateboards. Their basic design and technology was in constant flux from the 1950s to about the late 1990s, and since then they've remained almost completely unchanged. I don't think skateboarders are stuck in the 90s, I think they've accepted a best practice.
Yes, sure.

Developing pianos was techincally extremely demanding at that time. Nowadays you can still meet a lot of variety and fine tuning for different purposes. Plus you can use sampled and/or modelled pianos besides physical ones.

But nobody would say we are stuck in the the time between 1700 and 1850 for continuing to use the same instrument, which essentially was developed in stages back then. Just the contrary: it took ages to get anything from Bach to Esbjörn Svensson up to CP70 songs or tracks with sampled House Piano from this kind of instrument, and people are still using it for lots of different purposes and in new contexts.

It will be the same with analog synths:
- it was just a short pause to neglect them or come close to forgetting them during the two decades, when digital audio rapidly developed.
- and they are not just brought back for nostalgic reasons, but they are simply doing an excellent job in many musical contexts, including actual ones. I simply enjoy analog synths, while not ever thinking they could or should replace digital synths like Serum, or the other way round.

So everybody relax and make some good use of what's available.
Old 4 days ago
  #99
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanbeat View Post
I think I mentioned in the Pro One thread that I believe we are at the end of an era of experimentation and approaching an era of refinement in the world of synthesizers (and, as you mentioned, other audio gear that was developed throughout the 20th century). I don't see it as consumers being "stuck" in a previous decade, but rather moving collectively towards best practices that have emerged after collectively deciding what best suits our needs as songwriters, musicians, and engineers.

The same thing happened with skateboards. Their basic design and technology was in constant flux from the 1950s to about the late 1990s, and since then they've remained almost completely unchanged. I don't think skateboarders are stuck in the 90s, I think they've accepted a best practice.
for synths i still think there is a ways to go. not to mention this whole modular world.

and things like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XMfKYVu_fg
https://www.tastychips.nl

plus this whole new world of software has expanded the way we use synths and design synths. zebra and omnisphere have flexible envelopes and cool modulation options which might be cool to have in analog synths.
the roland concept of that laser controller is also something that could open a whole new world of controlling synths.

but for pro audio gear it might be true. we just do the same british 73 style mic pre or api but at much lower costs and maybe add usb interface. so the basic everyone approves just minor changes.
Old 4 days ago
  #100
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Synthesizers are not pianos, or skateboards. They're fundamentally about manipulating electronic signals rather than filling a role in the physical world (and honestly, even these examples keep changing – you could reasonably argue that stage pianos are a dramatic evolution of the piano, and that electric skateboards are still skateboards at heart.)

Technical advances open up dramatic new opportunities in the world of producing complex sound. Just look at what's happening with MPE controllers, deep sampling, machine learning in a wide range of fields, digital emulations of analog circuits, and it's patently obvious there's a lot of room for exploration left. If nothing else, I'm still waiting for a proper successor to the horrifically outdated MIDI physical protocol that can play a chord without spreading notes out over multiple milliseconds. It would be straightforward to send scores of MIDI and audio channels over an Ethernet connection with low latency and automatic sample clock management, so I expect we will standardize on something similar one of these days.

There's nothing wrong with celebrating the past but I trust that the pioneering spirit of electronic music is alive and well.
Old 4 days ago
  #101
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jimknopf's Avatar
It's not so much about celebrating the past, and if so, maybe just a little bit, for the fun of it.

It's rather mostly about using what's still valid and extremely useful just as it is (and THIS was the valid point of comparison to pianos and skateboards). Analog synths are exactly that: extremely musical and useful, many of them with broad sweetspots for sound creation and music making. They are just pure fun machines, and time has not taken any tiny bit from that. Technology will continue to develop, and I will be making a lot of music on analog synths, while that happens.

My Behringer Model D arrived today and went to immediate use. Simple as that.
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