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High End Absorption / Dullness Condenser Microphones
Old 13th September 2014
  #31
Gear Nut
 

I think you're not understanding my problem dudes...

I had a very DULL / DEAD ROOM.
RT60 below 0.1 from 600HZ upwards

When I removed all the Auralex 4" foam from my early reflection points and rear wall, suddenly the room is live again !! I can hear some highs and I feel that I'm not in a vaccuumed room anymore... rt60 is between 0.2 and 0.3 now.

If I add Absorption again it will take me back to square 1...that is ... a dead room once again!!

Has anyone experienced this before? Should I use deflectors / diffusors at this stage?? Or else a combination of diffusion and absorption like the wavewood panels from Vicoustic?

Anyone?

Thanks
Old 13th September 2014
  #32
Gear Nut
 

Hi Dan Dan. Thanks for your reply.

Please find the .mdat file attached below. IT show the reading for the room with the early reflection zones auralex 4" panels removed.

Thankyou for your time.

https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads...3095824/68a042
Old 13th September 2014
  #33
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevefire View Post
I think you're not understanding my problem dudes...

I had a very DULL / DEAD ROOM.
RT60 below 0.1 from 600HZ upwards

When I removed all the Auralex 4" foam from my early reflection points and rear wall, suddenly the room is live again !! I can hear some highs and I feel that I'm not in a vaccuumed room anymore... rt60 is between 0.2 and 0.3 now.

If I add Absorption again it will take me back to square 1...that is ... a dead room once again!!

Has anyone experienced this before? Should I use deflectors / diffusors at this stage?? Or else a combination of diffusion and absorption like the wavewood panels from Vicoustic?

Anyone?

Thanks
The way I kill early room reflections without deadening the listening experience is by establishing a ISD of about 24ms and having a string termination (-6db).

My RT60 is about 0.16 - 0.20 from 250hz up. Not hugely live, but not dead either.

Details: My Listening Room
Old 13th September 2014
  #34
Gear Guru
Focus

Quite effective foam then it would appear.
The dead thing is pretty much all in your head. But as someone said to me, 'can you think of somewhere worse to have it?'

Many of us have no issue or problem with listening in a non or dead environment. Happens the moment you put headphones on.
I have never been in a lively CR in my life.
But su casa....

Let's be clear though, very early reflections, particularly from the front side, wreak havoc with the imaging and HF frequency response. Some people, e.g. boggy put a small amount of proper diffusion there, but I don't think the wave wood is really diffusive.
The main absorptive element in your room is probably the ceiling.
You could certainly replace a lot of that with Diffusion, overhead and or behind the listening area. Space arrays and Space Couplers are benign at short distances.

You have one singular low bass issue. Use the Sig Generator with frequency follows cursor. Sine wave, slide the mouse onto that 50Hz thing and explore for the loudest spots in the room. Big bass traps there. Hopefully you have filled the void above the ceiling with light fibre insulation?

If you can't do that, Eq would help a lot. Just showing you some REW settings here.
High End Absorption / Dullness-screen-shot-2014-09-13-17.17.57.jpg

The translation thing is as ever, flat doesn't work, turn down the tweeters.

DD
Old 14th September 2014
  #35
Gear Nut
 

Thankyou for your feedback Dan Dan : Here are my replies :


Quite effective foam then it would appear.
The dead thing is pretty much all in your head. But as someone said to me, 'can you think of somewhere worse to have it?'

Well if it wasn't dead, It was surely sucking up all highs from my room. The RT60 proved me right!

Let's be clear though, very early reflections, particularly from the front side, wreak havoc with the imaging and HF frequency response. Some people, e.g. boggy put a small amount of proper diffusion there, but I don't than the wave wood is really diffusive.
The main absorptive element in your room is probably the ceiling.
You could certainly replaced a lot of that with Diffusion, overhead and or behind the listening area. Space arrays and Space Couplers are benign at short distances.

I didn't understand you well here. You mean the Wavewood panels from vicoustic are no good for the job? I was considering diffusion on the rear of the ceiling, behind my already existing overhead diffusors. Do you think diffusors at the upper back wall will also help?

You have one singular low bass issue. Use the Sig Generator with frequency follows cursor. Sine wave, slide the mouse onto that 50Hz thing and explore for the loudest spots in the room. Big bass traps there. Hopefully you have filled the void above the ceiling with light fibre insulation?

The ceiling is filled with 5 layers of 40kg/m3 stonewool stacked on each other.
Yes I know it's too much but at least it helped in disappearing 2 very annoying room modes.

If you can't do that, Eq would help a lot. Just showing you some REW settings here.

Yes I have been considering EQ for about a year now, But as so many acousticians treat EQ as the plague lol, I was treating this as my last available option. Which Hardware EQ do you suggest? I don't want to buy anything that has behringer stamped on it... Too many disappointments to buy from them again....
Old 14th September 2014
  #36
Gear Nut
 

The translation thing is as ever, flat doesn't work, turn down the tweeters.

Excuse my ignorance but I'm not a native English speaker so sometimes I do not understand your meaning....

turn down the tweeters you mean buying a new set of speakers? or else turning the volume down??

One thing I noticed is that when I removed all Auralex panels. The SPL reading remained practically the same... strange....
Old 14th September 2014
  #37
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevefire View Post
The translation thing is as ever, flat doesn't work, turn down the tweeters.

Excuse my ignorance but I'm not a native English speaker so sometimes I do not understand your meaning....

turn down the tweeters you mean buying a new set of speakers? or else turning the volume down??

One thing I noticed is that when I removed all Auralex panels. The SPL reading remained practically the same... strange....
How much tweet is desirable is mostly a subjective preference. If you want the high end to be less, you can do this by turning down the tweeter controls on the speaker (if they are provided), adjust the EQ (if you are using it) or you can go into the speaker and insert a resistor in the tweeter signal path.

Only very strong reflections will show a difference in the FR. Not unusual at all to see no to little deviation in your situation.
Old 14th September 2014
  #38
Gear Guru
Subjective

Turn down the tweeters= reduce the HF level. Quite a lot.
Over the decades. many have come up with a remarkably similar curve.
index
http://www.bksv.com/doc/17-197.pdf

Note the similarity, a slope from LF (100) to HF (10K) of about 6dB
I use the Eq on my ADAM's to get the speakers almost right, then Dirac Live to make some corrections and clearly define the curve I want.
Minidsp.com have many very affordable hardware Eq options. No need to even mention Behr....

I have tweaked here over a long time and observed how the mix or masters translated. It works first time every time now. Same slope 6dB.
I do think this is a bit removed from a personal taste issue.

Again, I do not think the Wavewood is a diffusor. And again, side reflection absorbers should be fully absorptive IMO.
Replacing your overhead and rear absorption with diffusion will certainly preserve some HF to perhaps MF energy.

DD
Old 14th September 2014
  #39
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post

Note the similarity, a slope from LF (100) to HF (10K) of about 6dB


DD
Yep. That is about where I am at also.

High End Absorption / Dullness-fr-me.jpg
Old 17th September 2014
  #40
Gear Nut
 

Thankyou for your Help Guys!

It's time to create 2 QRD Wooden Diffusors for this job then.
Already downloaded a software named QRD calculator. It tells you how to create your QRD diffusors at which frequencies you want to tackle.

Thanks guys! Will get back when the diffusors are in place
Let's hope it's the final piece of this year long puzzle
Old 15th October 2014
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
radioactivity's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevefire View Post
pics here
Your soffit traps https://www.gearslutz.com/board/10307123-post11.html are very good looking!!! Do you have any pics or tips how you build them?
Old 21st October 2014
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
Qtwister's Avatar
 

@ steve forget about diffusion in this room its way to small u want to fade it out as much as possible and remove those foam thingies
u need thick broadband absorbers dunno maybee gik 244s/Monsters or Realtraps
those vicoustic thingies wont help maybee in conjunction with other vicoustic products
but simple broadband absorbtion and maybee some tuned traps are the best options for room this size...
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