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Sound proofing a door Signal Splitters (HW)
Old 27th July 2014
  #1
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Sound proofing a door

I need to sound proof a door to make my home office quieter.

I have sealed around the door and have hung blankets over the door. The trouble is that the door itself has panels which may only be about 1/2 inch.

I am thinking of attaching a sheet of drywall onto one side of the door, and possibly some celotex too.

I have seen this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ReTr9Syqg but I don't want to glue the drywall on because it is a nice door.

Do i need the celotex?

Any advice?
Old 28th July 2014
  #2
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Dominion28's Avatar
 

The key to sound proofing is transmission. Either through gaps or through contact. If your door doesn't seal all the way round (as most internal doors don't) you might want to think sbout replacing it with an exterior door, which will have a rubber seal round the edge and probably a mechanism for securing the door tight against it.

If this is maybe not an option because of cost, or you just don't wanna rip your house apart for the sake of a door, you could look at adding neoprene rubber strips round the inside of your door frame, so that when you close the door it closes against the seal. Alternatively you could create an overlap on the door so that when you close it, you seal it over the gaps round the door it's self (skirting board and neoprene work pretty well as a budget option for this).

Hope his helps. Feel free to email me directly if you've got any other questions. :-)
Old 28th July 2014
  #3
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

I don't see what adding celotex to the door would gain you.......... it's not a whole lot of mass - and isolation of doors boils down to mass and seals........

You said you added seals to the door already - but did not describe which type you used - nor how you handled the bottom of the door....... if the bottom of the door does not have a seal then all is for naught........

I take it this is a solid core raised panel door based on your description - in which case the best you can hope for (without adding mass to the door) is to seal the edges very well...........

Personally I would never add drywall mass to a door..........

Although it is mass - it's really not made for applications where everything is moving.........

If you want to add mass I would recommend a sheet of 3/4" plywood installed on the inside face of the door (the inside face being the side with the door seals) - if you hold it 3/4" or so from the edge of the jamb that would allow the existing seals to work - and would also allow you to add a second set of door seals to the mix if you want even more isolation........

If you were to add a layer of lead between the plywood and the face of the door you would increase the level of isolation pretty dramatically........

Rod
Old 14th September 2014
  #4
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
I don't see what adding celotex to the door would gain you.......... it's not a whole lot of mass - and isolation of doors boils down to mass and seals........

You said you added seals to the door already - but did not describe which type you used - nor how you handled the bottom of the door....... if the bottom of the door does not have a seal then all is for naught........

I take it this is a solid core raised panel door based on your description - in which case the best you can hope for (without adding mass to the door) is to seal the edges very well...........

Personally I would never add drywall mass to a door..........

Although it is mass - it's really not made for applications where everything is moving.........

If you want to add mass I would recommend a sheet of 3/4" plywood installed on the inside face of the door (the inside face being the side with the door seals) - if you hold it 3/4" or so from the edge of the jamb that would allow the existing seals to work - and would also allow you to add a second set of door seals to the mix if you want even more isolation........

If you were to add a layer of lead between the plywood and the face of the door you would increase the level of isolation pretty dramatically........

Rod
I plan to install a second door (solid wood ext door) in front of my current door (interior door) by attaching the new door frame to the current door frame.

Then you suggest adding lead with a sheet of plywood cut to the door dimensions or just short of it. What kind of lead? can you get it at like homedepot? how would you even cut that?

If I were to buy a solid steel exterior door would that be even better?
Old 14th September 2014
  #5
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

If installing a 2nd door I would simply get a good quality solid core door and use good gaskets along with a threshold and drop seal and not worry about adding any mass to the door.......

Typical insulated steel doors are great for insulation - not very good in the area of isolation - I would not waste my money there.

Rod
Old 15th September 2014
  #6
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
If installing a 2nd door I would simply get a good quality solid core door and use good gaskets along with a threshold and drop seal and not worry about adding any mass to the door.......

Typical insulated steel doors are great for insulation - not very good in the area of isolation - I would not waste my money there.

Rod
When you say gasket is that similar to weather stripping?

or something like this
Surface Mounted Door Gasket with Sponge EPDM or Sponge Silicone Seal by Pemko, www.TMHardware.com

If this is what you mean, I couldn't find them on homedepot's site, but i imagine they would sell them.

And for the drop seal threshold I found this.

http://www.tmhardware.com/images/D/3...28LR%29-01.jpg

These drop seal things are not cheap!

I've also read that the hole bored out for the handle can be an issue. are there some sort of non penetrating door handles out there?
Attached Thumbnails
Sound proofing a door-p_296_rs_a_2_-lr-.jpg   Sound proofing a door-328a_door_2_-lr-01.jpg  
Old 15th September 2014
  #7
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

Personally I never worry about locksets......... and never have isolation issues. Just make sure the install is clean. Look at it this way - you need to be able to latch the door somehow - and it needs to be able to open (hence unlatch) from both sides - so one way or another you are going to have to penetrate that door.....

This is true (of course) unless you simply go with surface mounted door pulls - but the you are going to need a good quality door closure in order to seal properly against the gaskets..... and a good closure will cost you a whole lot more than a good quality drop seal......

The gaskets you show are not (in and of themselves) "bad" - but they lack the ability to be adjusted....... which means if you door ever warps they become pretty much useless - which means you will have to remove them - fill the screw holes in the door solid - and reinstall them........ if that doesn't bother you then they should do fine......

Rod
Old 16th September 2014
  #8
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
Personally I never worry about locksets......... and never have isolation issues. Just make sure the install is clean. Look at it this way - you need to be able to latch the door somehow - and it needs to be able to open (hence unlatch) from both sides - so one way or another you are going to have to penetrate that door.....

This is true (of course) unless you simply go with surface mounted door pulls - but the you are going to need a good quality door closure in order to seal properly against the gaskets..... and a good closure will cost you a whole lot more than a good quality drop seal......

The gaskets you show are not (in and of themselves) "bad" - but they lack the ability to be adjusted....... which means if you door ever warps they become pretty much useless - which means you will have to remove them - fill the screw holes in the door solid - and reinstall them........ if that doesn't bother you then they should do fine......

Rod
Thanks for all of your help. I think I have a better idea of what to do now.

I'll search for adjustable gaskets and a drop seal that hiepfully isn't too expensive. Are there any you know that work well for this?

I assume these kind of gaskets are better for sound isolation than the standard weather stripping that come on a pre hung door....?
Old 17th September 2014
  #9
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

From a cost point of view the most reasonable are generally the products manufactured by Pemko...

Zero International products are (in my opinion) higher quality - however there is also (generally) a price point you pay for their products...

I would be surprised if the Pemko products did not meet your need......

Rod
Old 26th September 2014
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
From a cost point of view the most reasonable are generally the products manufactured by Pemko...

Zero International products are (in my opinion) higher quality - however there is also (generally) a price point you pay for their products...

I would be surprised if the Pemko products did not meet your need......

Rod
Update: OK I was able to find a brand new solid core door with the right dimensions, swing, threshold, sweep, and weather stripping for pretty cheap on craigslist.

Unfortunately it was pre drilled for a deadbolt, so I will prob just put a deadbolt in to plug it and as convenience.

Question:What would be the best way to make the seal around the jamb soundproof?


The door guy at my homedepot suggested backer rod. So do you just put some of that in between the stud and the jamb and nail them together?

My plan is to have two doors, the second door I will have to build a wall around the jamb and attach that to the existing wall. *See pictures

When entering the studio the second door will be the new door I just bought. The ceiling is higher than the door and the closet wall will connect with the handle side of the second door.

Is this a bad idea?

I want to apologize for blatantly hi jacking this thread, but I feel my concerns have been relevant to the OP questions.

Old 26th September 2014
  #11
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The guy at home depot knows about backer rod - but apparently not about what it's made for.......

Backer rod does not create a "seal" - it is meant to use along with caulk in order to create a 2 point caulk joint.

You do not want to create a framed opening that is tight to the door jamb - that is an invitation to a whole host of issues down the road.....

I typically design framed openings that are 3/4" wider than the door frame - and a maximum of 1/2" in height taller than it.

That allows you room to shim the door so it operates properly - and then you should place some compressed insulation between the remainder of the jamb and framing - then backer rod, sized so it fits snugly, and slightly recessed in the opening - and then caulk the joint to create an air seal.

Rod
Old 26th September 2014
  #12
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
The guy at home depot knows about backer rod - but apparently not about what it's made for.......

Backer rod does not create a "seal" - it is meant to use along with caulk in order to create a 2 point caulk joint.

You do not want to create a framed opening that is tight to the door jamb - that is an invitation to a whole host of issues down the road.....

I typically design framed openings that are 3/4" wider than the door frame - and a maximum of 1/2" in height taller than it.

That allows you room to shim the door so it operates properly - and then you should place some compressed insulation between the remainder of the jamb and framing - then backer rod, sized so it fits snugly, and slightly recessed in the opening - and then caulk the joint to create an air seal.

Rod
Maybe I didn't remember everything the home depot guy said, I've never done this so it's kind of a lot. I figured buying the prehung with the threshold and door holes drilled saved me a lot of work/hassle.

Questions:

So you're saying the door frame should be wider than the jamb by 3/4" on both sides?

Should I cut some of the roxul safe and sound I have to shove in there? Or are we talking about a different kind of insulation?

I currently rent and cant damage/change too much of the existing structure. Is there a way I can seal this to the wall without caulking? Or would caulking be easy to scrape off and paint over? This just applys to the area above the door where I will have to build a wall. The part that connects by the hinges I will just remove the door trim and put that back when I move (probably not soon, just want to plan ahead)
Old 26th September 2014
  #13
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

Nope - you're getting closer - but not there yet.........

The framed opening should be 3/4" wider overall - so 3/8" each side of the door jamb.......

And you do not caulk the face of the drywall - you caulk between the door frame and the jamb....... there shouldn't be anything to scape off afterwards......

Rod
Old 26th September 2014
  #14
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
Nope - you're getting closer - but not there yet.........

The framed opening should be 3/4" wider overall - so 3/8" each side of the door jamb.......

And you do not caulk the face of the drywall - you caulk between the door frame and the jamb....... there shouldn't be anything to scape off afterwards......

Rod
Oh I see. How about the seal between the door frame and the existing wall? as well as the the seal between the new wall above the door and existing wall?

And would the roxul sns work for insulation in the seal?

Does the seal just need the one strip around the jamb, or are we talking about insulation in the middle with backer rod surrounding that, then caulking both sides of that?
Old 26th September 2014
  #15
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Had a similar issue with my home studio. I used GreenGlue and 3/4" drywall on both surfaces of the door. I took the drywall to within about 1/4" of the door jamb, and finished the edges with plastic corner bead. I then filled the remaining gap with the rubber weather stripping. No problems with sound leakage/transmission now. By the way, it was a cheap panelled, hollow core door.
Old 27th September 2014
  #16
Gear Head
 

The guys at homedepot also recommended that black soundboard stuff instead of regular drywall.

Would this be effective on my small wall I'm building over the doorway?

I will also be building a window plug so the soundboard wouldn't go to waste
Old 27th September 2014
  #17
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

What black soundboard stuff are you referring to?

Rod
Old 27th September 2014
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
What black soundboard stuff are you referring to?

Rod
QuietBrace 1/2 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. Sound-Deadening Structural Insulating Sheathing, 3103308 at The Home Depot - Mobile

I'm not sure if this is the same as in the store. I'll go check it out and take a picture maybe today. But it looked just like this.
Old 27th September 2014
  #19
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Also, going back to another question.... You said not to caulk the face of the drywall, so How do I complete the seal between the existing wall and my door framing/new wall?
Old 27th September 2014
  #20
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

Listen - you have an existing wall - it has a door in it - right?

You have a new wall on one side of it - and it has a door in it - right?

if that is the case what makes you think you need to "seal" the joint between the 2 surfaces?

Picture it this way - the wall panel plus the door creates the total plane of isolation.......... that is a single plane.......

For this reason it is important that you seal where the door jamb meets the framed opening - this I explained above - but the joint inside of the walls (between the 2 walls) is no different than the space between 2 panel surfaces on any standard isolated wall assembly....... the fact that part of the panel surface happens to be a door and not drywall is meaningless......

We typically caulk the joint between door jambs - but this is a finish detail - not an isolation detail........ it stops dust and dander from working it's way into the wall cavity - which would be messy - however a piece of tape covering the surface would do exactly the same as that caulk joint....... this is (of course) in cases where 2 walls are close together - inches apart....... if you're talking feet apart then you are speaking about what is essentially a corridor - and in that case just deal with the door in the new wall........



Rod
Old 27th September 2014
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
For this reason it is important that you seal where the door jamb meets the framed opening - this I explained above
Yes I understand I have to seal the rough opening with the jamb as you explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post

- but the joint inside of the walls (between the 2 walls) is no different than the space between 2 panel surfaces on any standard isolated wall assembly
This is the part I'm confused about, I don't know what a 'standard isolated wall assembly' is so I'm not sure how to connect the new wall to the old wall.

Would you suggest just attaching the new king stud to the old one by nailing them together? and the same at the other joint meeting up with the closet wall?

I apologize for all the questions, I've just never done this before.
Old 27th September 2014
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post

The gaskets you show are not (in and of themselves) "bad" - but they lack the ability to be adjusted....... which means if you door ever warps they become pretty much useless - which means you will have to remove them - fill the screw holes in the door solid - and reinstall them........ if that doesn't bother you then they should do fine......

Rod
Do doors naturally warp over time in some cases?
I'm wondering because I saw you mention this and I have 2 doors that seem badly warped at the moment but I'm not sure if they actually are warped or if the walls themselves aren't straight!

The build is a disused radio station on a semi derelict industrial estate and as a result it was only built to be soundproof for voice purposes, only they really cheaped out and maybe did a bad job to boot. You know how sometimes people build vocal booths by finding the corner of a room and adding two more walls on, well imagine that on a large scale!

I want to get it working well enough for speech type stuff and other quiet things but I feel that doors are my big enemy as all the doors are a total state.

I feel that if I can sort the doors I can get it basically air tight.

I think the doors might even be hollow core type doors but I'm not sure if changing for solid core doors would be sensible, presumably they would need to be the right size and I'm not sure if the walls are built to support that extra weight. On the other hand investing a lot of money on sealing the existing doors might be a waste given their low performance already but then I guess it depends on how I make it work!?

Any thoughts?

Freya
Old 28th September 2014
  #23
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

DG,

you're going to have to draw a sketch and post it - I cannot (for the life of me) get my head around what you are trying to ask me here.....

Rod
Old 28th September 2014
  #24
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

Wood doors tend to warp slightly over time in more than a few cases........ it's the nature of the beast with things made from wood and humidity that varies over time...

Any wall frame that will support a hollow core door should support a standard solid core door....... it's when you begin beefing up the door by adding mass that things start becoming a concern....... but in all the construction I've done in my life - we never framed any differently for solid core doors than we did for hollow core doors....

Rod
Old 28th September 2014
  #25
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
DG,

you're going to have to draw a sketch and post it - I cannot (for the life of me) get my head around what you are trying to ask me here.....

Rod
I plan to frame the opening, I'm not sure how to attach to the wall by the 2nd door's hinge side and at the closet wall

I'm hoping this plan will at least reduce sound transfer between the hallway/adjacent rooms by a little bit, or it you think this wont be very effective is there something else I could do...Maybe like building a second wall in front of the wall with the existing door?

I'm trying to reduce sound transfer without altering/damaging the structure because I rent
Attached Thumbnails
Sound proofing a door-studio-transperant-1-door.jpg   Sound proofing a door-studio-transperant-2nd-door.jpg   Sound proofing a door-studio-transperant-2nd-door-side.jpg   Sound proofing a door-studio-transperant-treatment-recording-2nd-door.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: skp Studio Transperant.skp (7.98 MB, 65 views)
Old 30th September 2014
  #26
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What do you think?
Old 1st October 2014
  #27
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Rod Gervais's Avatar
 

The existing wall is probably going to be the weak link - this approach should gain you quite a bit of isolation at the door opening........

Just caulk the perimeter of the new frame at the wall and when you're ready to move you're need to scrape off the caulk - patch the holes where you fastened the new frame and then paint the wall........ not a huge deal........""

I wouldn't bother trying to beef up the new door - as I said - the existing wall is going to end up your weak point........

Rod
Old 1st October 2014
  #28
Gear Head
 

Thanks again Rod. I know its not a perfect plan. Mostly just looking for improvement.

So just caulking the frame with the drywall with long wood screw should be fine or repeat the same seal I have at the jamb with the backer rod, insulation and caulk?

Do you recommended acoustic caulk? I've read mixed reviews on how effective it is vs the silicon or acrylic caulk.
Old 2nd October 2014
  #29
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I never use acoustic caulk - it's quite messy......... I do like Big Stretch caulk - it's da bomb.........

If you finish the frame on your room side with drywall for appearance - then simply caulk the perimeter - and whenever you caulk anything where the potential exists for a 3 point joint you should use backer rod.......

Rod
Old 3rd October 2014
  #30
Gear Head
 

OK i thought I was ready to start building, but after several youtube videos on wall/door framing, I have a couple more questions.

1. The framing I am building will be sitting on a carpet floor, will it need to be attached to the floor or will the weight hold the structure down?

2. Also, how would I attach to the ceiling?

3. You suggest drywall on the inside, not on the outside of the frame?

4. And when you mention adding baker rod at a '3 point joint' I'm not quite sure what you mean. What is a 3 point joint?

5. Also at the corners connecting with the hinge side existing wall and closet wall at the handle side is there a specific way to build these areas for more support? Or would this be as simple as standard door framing, standing it up and connecting to the walls with nails?
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