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Need some quick tips on treating this small room Modular Synthesizers
Old 11th March 2014
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Need some quick tips on treating this small room

It's a 10'8'' by 10'10'' room (height is 7'7'') that I use as home theater (2.0 speaker setup, no sub), drywall ceiling and walls, window is covered with cellular shade, 80% of the hardwood floor is covered with carpet. Speakers are placed 2-3 inches from the wall.



Currently I am saving money towards speakers upgrade so I cannot add all the sound panels in one step. What would be in the order of importance? Also please feel free to critic the room layout, like should I go the entire setup at least a foot away from the wall?
Old 11th March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
sheggs's Avatar
Since it is basically a square you are going to need a lot of bass traps in there. I would also sped some time moving your monitor position as well. You want to avoid sitting in the centre of the room as much as possible
Room Acoustics Primer - GIK Acoustics
Monitor Positioning in Room Setup - GIK Acoustics
Old 11th March 2014
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheggs View Post
You want to avoid sitting in the centre of the room as much as possible[/url]
Do you mean front to back or left to right? Right now I am sitting in the center from left to right but 35% from front to back.
Old 13th March 2014
  #4
Gear Nut
 

I took some measurement using REM: (with Samson USB Go Mic)





It looks like there is resonance at 90Hz, which is about right for 11' room. That could be improved with corner traps, right?

What to do with flatten the peaks at 105Hz, 150Hz, 180Hz and 210Hz? Will side panels work?
Old 13th March 2014
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
It looks like there is resonance at 90Hz, which is about right for 11' room. That could be improved with corner traps, right?
Yes it will help a lot

What to do with flatten the peaks at 105Hz, 150Hz, 180Hz and 210Hz? Will side panels work?

Adjust the speaker and seating spot and also TREAT the room. The more trapping you put in the corners the better the response, for the most part. There are other areas, like the back wall and early reflection points you need to cover.
Bass Traps and Understanding Low Frequencies |
Video: Early or First Reflection Points |

BTW I can't seem to be able to view your charts. You may want to zip and post the REW file.
Old 14th March 2014
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Please see the measurement file I uploaded, thanks!

I just took this measurement, so the numbers could be off a bit from the one I did before.
Attached Files
File Type: mdat room1.mdat (2.71 MB, 115 views)
Old 14th March 2014
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
That is either something in your system or a noise in the room (or outside). It is not the room. You can see from the attached waterfall that the 90hz decay never goes away or decrease.
Attached Thumbnails
Need some quick tips on treating this small room-gs10.png  
Old 14th March 2014
  #8
Gear Nut
 

My speculation is that it is due to the fan noise from my computer. I can try to momentarily stop all fans from spinning and take measurement again.

Or is there a way to take a measurement of the room then subtract from the graph?
Old 14th March 2014
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Or is there a way to take a measurement of the room then subtract from the graph?
Not that I know of.
Old 15th March 2014
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Okay, it's from the hard drive. :lol

Please see the files again, room1 is with hard drive turned off. room3 is with hard drive placed in a different location in the case, it's level has been lowered.
Attached Files
File Type: mdat room1.mdat (2.72 MB, 71 views) File Type: mdat room3.mdat (2.71 MB, 123 views)
Old 15th March 2014
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Could be, but you still have some kind of external or internal noise going on. First file is hard drive off. Second is with it moved
Attached Thumbnails
Need some quick tips on treating this small room-gs11.png   Need some quick tips on treating this small room-gs12.png  
Old 15th March 2014
  #12
Gear Nut
 

I lowered the gain on the mic and the noise also decreased.
Old 17th March 2014
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Here's the result after one corner trap is placed from floor to ceiling.

What might have caused the nulls at 332Hz and 493Hz?
Attached Files
File Type: mdat room with one corner trap.mdat (2.71 MB, 143 views)
Old 17th March 2014
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Looking better. Generally when you have the speaks close to the wall it will increase the low end but you seem to be lacking in that area. You still need a lot more bass trapping in corners, so after you do that I would try to move the speakers away from the wall a bit to see if that changes it. Doubt it will but might be worth a try. Like I said though you still need a lot more trapping in that room.
Old 17th March 2014
  #15
Gear Nut
 

A quick question, the interior side of the room has no insulation behind drywall (it makes a hollow sound if I knock on it), will that make the reflection worse? In other words should I place more panels on this wall than the rest of the walls that have fiber glass insulation in them?
Old 17th March 2014
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
A quick question, the interior side of the room has no insulation behind drywall (it makes a hollow sound if I knock on it), will that make the reflection worse? In other words should I place more panels on this wall than the rest of the walls that have fiber glass insulation in them?
No it really is not going to make a difference.
Old 20th March 2014
  #17
Gear Head
 
Rob Babcock's Avatar
 

Your room is not much smaller than the one I'm building out right now. If it's practical one thing I'd suggest is that maybe you might want to add a subwoofer. Not for "more" bass but to "isolate" it. If you use a sub you can treat the room as much as is practical, then use one or two bands of parametric EQ on the sub to smooth things out. If you go that route you'll only want to cut, not boost, to tame any peaks that will still be there once you're done with the treatments.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Should I worry about making the room too "dead" for movies? So far I have two corners treated from floor to ceiling, since I will be make 2' by 4' panels for this small room, it won't take many to cover 50% of all surfaces with panels. Do I need to cover ceiling with a cloud?

I haven't been to a good movie theater for so many years, I forgot if a good theater has decent reverb or not.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #19
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
With a room your size and shape I would not worry all that much about it being on the "dead" side. If are you are then look to use a slat design over the absorption to help retain/scatter/diffuse upper energy.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Thanks, so slat design is like putting kraft paper with slits behind cloth covering?

Another question, it seems many diffusers are placed behind the listening spot, should some diffusers be placed on the first reflection points?
Old 23rd March 2014
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
It is alone these lines.
GIK Acoustics Scatter Plate Product Video

Generally speaking you do not use diffusion on the early reflection points.
Old 24th March 2014
  #22
Gear Nut
 

I added two corner traps, two panels at early reflection point, and a bass trap at the third corner.

REW file is attached.
Attached Files
File Type: mdat 2 corner and 3 panels.mdat (2.68 MB, 145 views)
Old 27th March 2014
  #23
Gear Nut
 

I ran into something very strange.

Here's what I've been building lately:



two corner traps (the other one is at the other front corner), two 2'x4'x3'' panels, and one 2'x4'x6'' panel.

Today I completed the third corner trap (lower right corner of the room where the 6'' panel was leaning in the picture above, wasn't planning to treat the lower left corner because of the shape and the door there)

Here's the result:



What's most surprising was that the green curve was actually with the third corner trap. The red was with the 6'' panel leaning on the corner shown in the first picture. I don't know how a complete floor to ceiling corner trap made things worse at 325Hz, 435Hz and 517Hz.


Now take a look at the following graph:



The only thing I changed was to move the 3'' panels away from the first reflection point and entirely out of the room, the blue curve is showing with both panels removed!!! So with nothing on the first reflection point, nulls at 325Hz and 435Hz magically improved, and 550-650Hz also looked a lot better!

Could it be now that I've treated the third corner, leaving the fourth corner untreated actually made things worse because of an imbalance? I think not. Now, I have not treated the front yet, I plan to add a panel behind each speaker. I also plan to add a cloud. But I just want to verify that in theory, adding more absorption panels should NOT have made peaks and nulls worse, right?
Old 27th March 2014
  #24
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
adding more absorption panels should NOT have made peaks and nulls worse, right?
If you had 2 walls that caused a null and peak, with them together, it would smooth it out. If you treat one of the walls then the peak or null would show up. Basically though I would not get overly excited at this point. Treat all the areas you planned and go from there. You are going to fine that moving the mix spot forward or back after treatment is needed.
Old 27th March 2014
  #26
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
Looks like Jens is rubbing off!

Old 27th March 2014
  #27
Lives for gear
 

I only link that one because it's hilarious how many posts were deleted, all over that stupid zip file.
Old 27th March 2014
  #28
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
wow that has to be world recorded!
Old 27th March 2014
  #29
Gear Nut
 

RT60 shows 0.2-0.3 seconds, is that pretty low already? Is RT60 a good indicator to show how live or dead the room is?
Old 27th March 2014
  #30
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
RT60 shows 0.2-0.3 seconds, is that pretty low already? Is RT60 a good indicator to show how live or dead the room is?
You really want to view the waterfall.
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