Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)
Old 13th November 2012
  #1
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)

Attached Images
File Type: png 1-3 Octave Smoothing.png (52.2 KB, 235 views) File Type: jpg 1-24 Octave Smoothing.jpg (56.1 KB, 210 views) File Type: png Waterfall.png (80.6 KB, 204 views) File Type: png Waterfall 2.png (78.0 KB, 194 views) File Type: png Reverberation time.png (41.3 KB, 280 views)
Old 13th November 2012
  #2
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Here I managed to get the pics as thumbnails :-)
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-octave-smoothing-jpg.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-octave-smoothing-jpg.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-waterfall-jpg.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-reverberation-time-jpg.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-waterfall-2-jpg.jpg  

Old 14th November 2012
  #3
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Id like to see 1/24th smoothing over the whole band.
Old 14th November 2012
  #4
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Here it is...
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24.jpg  
Old 14th November 2012
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 

For the room being pretty much square and that small it is not looking all that bad. Would have liked to have seen decay times shorter below 100 hz though. I have seen a lot worse though.
Old 14th November 2012
  #6
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Hi Glenn.

Thank you for your comments!

How do I make the decay times below 100hz shorter?

Is this done with more bass trapping? I have not yet
trapped floor - wall corners.

/Henning
Old 14th November 2012
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 

Quote:
Is this done with more bass trapping? I have not yet
trapped floor - wall corners.
Basically yes and for your room make them as large as possible. You will only get a square room so far. In the end you will know how well the room is when you do a mix. Either it translates well on other systems or not. That truly is the test of all tests. . I went though your build thread and did not see anything about the back wall. I might have missed it, but you want THICK absorption in that area also.
Old 14th November 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

The low end looks pretty reasonable, but that lull from about 1800hz -5k I would address.
Old 14th November 2012
  #9
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Thank you for your answers!

Glenn:

Yes, there are three panels on the back wall. The same as on the side walls.
I will do more bass trapping.

jim1961:

About that that lull from about 1800hz -5k. How do I address that issue?
Any ideas?


I have no carpet on the floor in the listening position.
I have not bass trapped any floor - wall corners.
I have the possibility to add to more panels on each side wall.
I have the possibility to add two more panels on the back wall.

/Henning
Old 14th November 2012
  #10
Gear Head
 

I usually test speakers and microphone in free field at the same position that in room, and after that i can compare to what the room is doing with the sound.

Maybe your problem with high frecuencies is the measurement microphone...

Old 14th November 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

There is no quick or packaged answer. I do agree making sure your mic is performing accurately maybe a good place to start.

Otherwise, try changing your setup. Moving speakers farther apart, farther from close surfaces, enlarging your triangle, downsizing your triangle, changing the toe-in, changing speaker and/or listening height.
Old 14th November 2012
  #12
Gear Head
 

Mastergod, do you measure both speaker at he same time?, are both exactly at the same distance to the microphone, more or less is not valid
Old 14th November 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosem View Post
Mastergod, do you measure both speaker at he same time?, are both exactly at the same distance to the microphone, more or less is not valid
That is a good point. I get something very to similar as Mastergod (upper midrange null) if I run both channels at once.
Old 14th November 2012
  #14
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Hi.

I am measuring using both speakers at the same time. Should I not?

I have now added one more panel on each side wall and added a rug under the listening position. I addition I added a little bit of bass trapping floor to wall on the back wall (I will bass trapp more, but didn´t have more at the moment).

The blue is the new graph.

I also see that the decay below 100hz have been shorter. It also seems like something positive thing has happened to 1800hz -5k.

The blue is the new one....
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-day-2.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-day-2.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-waterfall-day-2.jpg  
Old 14th November 2012
  #15
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
The microphone is placed the same distance away from both speakers.
Old 14th November 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
Hi.

I am measuring using both speakers at the same time. Should I not?
NO, you should not.
Old 15th November 2012
  #17
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Hi there.

According to this article on Real Traps you should use both speakers at once (and it says it is a good idea to also do each speaker seperatly).

RealTraps - Room Measuring Series
Old 15th November 2012
  #18
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Here is measurement of each separate speaker also.

Blue = Left speaker
Green = Right speaker
Blue = Both Speakers

All the best!
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-all-jpg.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-all-jpg.jpg  
Old 15th November 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
According to this article on Real Traps you should use both speakers at once (and it says it is a good idea to also do each speaker seperatly).
The opposite is the normal procedure: measure each speaker separate but combined might also be useful but normally not needed. If 2/5/7 (or whatever) .1 systems, you naturally want to measure each (or at least L&R) speaker with (and possibly also without) the subwoofer.
Old 15th November 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post

I also see that the decay below 100hz have been shorter. It also seems like something positive thing has happened to 1800hz -5k.

The blue is the new one....
If you thicken your panels, you may reduce / eliminate that wavy nature. Something to try.
Old 15th November 2012
  #21
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Hi again.

What does the wave nature mean? What is the issue when the graph look like it does?

/Henning
Old 15th November 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

An issue like this is getting a bit out of my area of knowledge, but its probably some sort of oscillation or resonance.

You get that wavy nature when a freq bounces back and forth between two surfaces. Their maybe other causes as well. When you added some more panels, you got those 1.8-5k frequencies responding higher, but there is something going on and I suspect a better more broadband absorber may help things. The panel you are using I suspect is only partially mitigating the problem.
Old 15th November 2012
  #23
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Thank you for your answers.

I will continue testing tomorrow, add more bass traps and wall panels. Move things around, try alternative speaker placements etc.

/Henning
Old 16th November 2012
  #24
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Hi there...

I have now added more bass traps and two more panels on the side walls. It seems like the bass trapping again made the low end decay shorter, but except from that, the graph seems more or less the same to me.

I will add even more bass traps during the weekend which means that more or less all corners will be covered top - down (wall - wall, wall ceiling, floor - wall).

The name of the pictures tells if the graph/waterfall is left, right or both speakers (I see the whole name when I open them).

Red = Left speaker
Purple = Right speaker
Green = both speakers

How does it look now?

All the best,
Henning
Attached Thumbnails
Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-left-right-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-3-l-r-both-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-left-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-right-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-left-right-1611.jpg  

Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-1-24-l-r-both-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-reverbation-time-both-speakers-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-wf-left-speaker-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-wf-right-speaker-1611.jpg   Here´s my graphs. Comments please :-)-wf-both-speakers-1611.jpg  

Old 16th November 2012
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 

Keep in mind that getting a room +/- 7 db or so is considered pretty darn good and you have a small, close to square room so it might be about as good as you can get. The key is to reduce decay times which is more important, IMHO. Getting the decay times in line on the low end will result in clarity.
Old 16th November 2012
  #26
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Hi Glenn.

Thank you for your replay!

I am not sure what you are saying. Do I have +/- 7db?

I see that the low end decay is getting more and more in line and shorter when I add more bass traps. I still have the possibility to add more bass traps (floor - wall) and will do that tomorrow.

/Henning
Old 16th November 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
Hi Glenn.


I am not sure what you are saying. Do I have +/- 7db?


/Henning
He is saying that you have a 14db deviation from your highest peak to your deepest lull.
Old 16th November 2012
  #28
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1961 View Post
He is saying that you have a 14db deviation from your highest peak to your deepest lull.
Yes

Note to self, I need to write an article on this.
Old 16th November 2012
  #29
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Okey, but +/- 7 db, a 14db deviation is good if understand you right Glenn? So if I get the low end decay in line, my room is in pretty good shape given the shortcommings of small room like mine?

/Henning
Old 16th November 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastergod View Post
Okey, but +/- 7 db, a 14db deviation is good if understand you right Glenn? So if I get the low end decay in line, my room is in pretty good shape given the shortcommings of small room like mine?

/Henning
How good something is based on its context. Small rooms with less than ideal dimension ratios are harder to deal with than larger rooms with more ideal ratios. Thus, +/- 7db is good, considering your constraints, but not ideal. +/- 5db would be better, +/- 3db approaches as good as anyone gets in any room @1/24th octave measurements.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+  Submit Thread to Reddit Reddit 
 
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to Gearslutz Pro Audio Forum!

Registration benefits include:
  • Ability to make and reply to posts
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get instant lifetime access to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20
  • List your eBay auctions for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
joelpatterson / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
46
carrot / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
2
ajfarber / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
4
Meriphew / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
7
el cochino / Live Sound
0

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Search