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DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)
Old 11th July 2018
  #841
Deleted 4adc64a
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Is there someone here that emailed Tim for the A1LeanFractal (not fuser) plans and would be willing to send them on to me? (Looks like he didn't want to post those online to protect his IP, but was sending them to folks via email). I sent him an email but no response yet and it looks like he hasn't logged in here in a while... Curious about the fractal dimensions. Thanks!
Old 15th May 2019
  #842
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Does the wood for this matter? Will standard 1/2" pine ply wood suffice our do you need something specific?
Old 15th May 2019
  #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ths61 View Post
@ Arqen , Would a routed profile something like this triple bead and flute bit be a good approximation for a fractal implementation ?

3/16" deep and 1 3/8" wide.

Also, how much coverage is required to be useful ?

TIA

I think profiles like this would work if you can apply them at angles and mix it up with other shapes/profiles.

Anything to "Mix it up" often turns out well. Fractal is one method of trying to optimize how it's mixed up. I like a mixture of fabric, Stone, Wood, etc.

I wonder how a fractal difuser out of granet would sound!
Old 15th May 2019
  #844
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I think profiles like this would work if you can apply them at angles and mix it up with other shapes/profiles
.

I don't see how a round profile would work for wells that are supposed to be square. Part of the principle of operation of a diffuser is that the incoming sound wave is able to enter the well, hit the (flat) bottom, and be reflected back up again, resulting in a time delay (and thus a phase shift). With curved sidewalls and a curved bottom for the well, I don't see how that reflection would happen...

That said, I would imagine that there must be similar router bits that are able to cut square-bottom, sheer-sided grooves, rather than rounded ones... ? Of course, the bit would have to cut to the exact correct dimensions...

Quote:
Fractal is one method of trying to optimize how it's mixed up.
Well, yeah.. I suppose! As long as the "mixing up" still follows the math behind how diffusers work. You can't just use any old random shape....

Quote:
I wonder how a fractal difuser out of granet would sound!
Just like one made out of any other material, actually... It's not the material that causes the diffusion, but the carefully crafted shape.

- Stuart -
Old 15th May 2019
  #845
Lives for gear
 

For a fractal diffuser I would use a small diameter straight router bit instead, Ø 6 mm or 1/4" or so is easier to control than larger bits and also less risky to operate. Together with "shims" in suitable thicknesses + a straight piece of wood along the side of the router machine, you can controll width and depth of each part of the diffuser front. Insert shims one at a time to widen the groove. Reset the bit depth when one groove is done and start with the next groove.

With a good table saw with a height adjustable blade, a straight edge + shims you can do the same. Clean any debris in the groove with a chisel.
Old 15th May 2019
  #846
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Bstapper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
.

Just like one made out of any other material, actually... It's not the material that causes the diffusion, but the carefully crafted shape.

- Stuart -
You underestimate the necessity of mass.

If your statement were true then paper plates would work if molded into the desired shape.
Old 15th May 2019
  #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
You underestimate the necessity of mass.
I don't think so...

It's a common misconception that diffusers have to be massively heavy to work: the principle of operation is not related to mass: Any reasonably rigid material will work.

Quote:
If your statement were true then paper plates would work if molded into the desired shape.
Actually, they probably would!

You don't need much mass on a diffuser: the ones molded from EPS and other plastics actually work quite well, and weigh very little. They look awful unpainted, sure, but they do work. What's most important is the correct shape, and air-tight wells. Mass is not relevant (within reason!)

You might find this thread interesting:

Diffusors: opinions about EPS polystyrene?

- Stuart -
Old 15th May 2019
  #848
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Bstapper's Avatar
 

Paper plates are not "within reason". I'm not sure that product you linked to is either, but I like the fact it looks like it is doing something.

Cheers,
Brock
Old 15th May 2019
  #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
Paper plates are not "within reason".
The density of waxed paper is around 700 kg/m3. The density of EPS is around 30 kg/m3 (at the low end of the range). A typical paper plate is about 1mm thick, so it has roughly the same mass as an inch of EPS. Diffusers molded from EPS are often a lot thinner than an inch... So yeah, a folded paper plate would do fine. Might not look very pretty: it would need a coat of paint, maybe, to make it nicer, but it would diffuse. It would also absorb probably, from the membrane effect, which might be unwanted... but then again, many diffusers also absorb in unwanted ways, so there's no difference there. And you might also be able to put that absorption to good use.

Quote:
I'm not sure that product you linked to is either, but I like the fact it looks like it is doing something.
If you actually click on that link, you'll find out that it doesn't take you to a product: in fact, it takes you to a thread here on GS, discussing in general the issue of diffusers made from EPS and similar materials. There are several mentions of various commercial products on that thread.

If you don't think those products are "within reason", then you should probably take that up with RPG, GIK acoustics, Jens, Thomann, etc. I'm sure Dr. D'Antonio and Glenn Kuras would love to hear your opinion on why EPS diffusers are not "within reason" and only "look like they are doing something"...

Anyway, getting back to the point: High mass is not necessary for a diffuser to work. Shape is what counts. Any reasonably stiff and reflective material can be used to make them.

- Stuart -
Old 16th May 2019
  #850
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Bstapper's Avatar
 

I was referring specifically to the 8-pack of .$89 diffusion discussed in that link.

I don't have to guess whether the product in question is "within reason" or not. I automatically assume that it is as soon as no quantifiable published performance specification is available.

But I'm not going to sit here and argue about the merits of using paper plates folded into the proper shape as a viable means of effective diffusion.

Carry on,
Brock
Old 16th May 2019
  #851
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
.

I don't see how a round profile would work for wells that are supposed to be square. Part of the principle of operation of a diffuser is that the incoming sound wave is able to enter the well, hit the (flat) bottom, and be reflected back up again, resulting in a time delay (and thus a phase shift). With curved sidewalls and a curved bottom for the well, I don't see how that reflection would happen...

That said, I would imagine that there must be similar router bits that are able to cut square-bottom, sheer-sided grooves, rather than rounded ones... ? Of course, the bit would have to cut to the exact correct dimensions...

Well, yeah.. I suppose! As long as the "mixing up" still follows the math behind how diffusers work. You can't just use any old random shape....

Just like one made out of any other material, actually... It's not the material that causes the diffusion, but the carefully crafted shape.

- Stuart -
Thank you for some real answers! very cool.
Old 30th May 2019
  #852
Lives for gear
I was reading this great thread and I have a simple question regarding panel measurement/prediction:

Why 3.6m as a measurement width standard?

"The rest of the table keeps all the test sample widths the same at about 3.6 m to allow ready comparison. When comparing other diffusers in the table, it is important to compare like with like, for example to ensure that the diffusers being compared have the same maximum depth. Trevor J. Cox - Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers: Theory, Design and Application

Why should we mesure (or calculate) a panel of 3.6m to estimate its behaviour if only a panel of 1.2m is used (so 33,33% of the measured panel)?
Is that important to measure/calculate a 3.6m panel if we don't compare to others?

I mean, if I play with Reflex for a 1.2 m panel design. Looks awesome. But when I calculate for a 3.6 m it's not great. Should I care since the panel will be only 1.2m width?
Old 25th August 2019
  #853
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arqen View Post
....

Enjoy the blueprints!

Tim

P.S. I’ll update this thread when I post more DIY diffuser resources. So stay tuned!
(to download the designs, visit the blue link above)
Hi Tim,

I see the Diffractal base is different than the LeanFuser base.

[0 40 70 60 80 50 10] vs [0, 40, 50, 30, 50, 40, 0]

Will a Diffractal base work better than a LeanFuser base (considering it is deeper (80mm versus 50mm) and asymmetric (no repeats versus 3 repeats in the 7 bays)) without the 2nd layer of narrow diffractal strips added to it ?

I would assume it would perform better than the LeanFuser and not quite as good as the Diffractal Diffuser.

Thanks much.

P.S.

It looks like some people made "nested LeanFusers" instead of "nested Diffractals".
Old 26th August 2019
  #854
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
I was reading this great thread and I have a simple question regarding panel measurement/prediction:

Why 3.6m as a measurement width standard?

"The rest of the table keeps all the test sample widths the same at about 3.6 m to allow ready comparison. When comparing other diffusers in the table, it is important to compare like with like, for example to ensure that the diffusers being compared have the same maximum depth. Trevor J. Cox - Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers: Theory, Design and Application

Why should we mesure (or calculate) a panel of 3.6m to estimate its behaviour if only a panel of 1.2m is used (so 33,33% of the measured panel)?
Is that important to measure/calculate a 3.6m panel if we don't compare to others?

I mean, if I play with Reflex for a 1.2 m panel design. Looks awesome. But when I calculate for a 3.6 m it's not great. Should I care since the panel will be only 1.2m width?
Anyone?
Old 3rd September 2019
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Anyone?
What exactly are you trying to simulate?

Your critical distance from the array (ie how far from your monitoring position)

Or the physical width of the array ?

ie that width suggests you either you have created 3 panel array thats approx 1.2m wide in physical dimensions or one of unknown that your desired listening distance from will be 1.2m?

Or have you modelled a different array and your using 1.2m then 3.6 m as the distance between the array and the listener ?

clarifying this will help answer i believe
Old 16th April 2020
  #856
Here for the gear
 

I realize the age of this thread, but I am wondering if any of you guys could share some of your results of your builds.

My wife has given me a small music room/Theater (10x12), in our new condo in Florida. I have a great system, but it needs help with a vinyl floor and drywall creating havoc. Never really heard my 2 channel listening system at its best, yet!!!!! I have zero understanding of Physics, so a simple build with dimensions would be fantastic. I “can” cut a board and glue it to another.
Old 19th April 2020
  #857
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ARIEL's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsart View Post
I realize the age of this thread, but I am wondering if any of you guys could share some of your results of your builds.

My wife has given me a small music room/Theater (10x12), in our new condo in Florida. I have a great system, but it needs help with a vinyl floor and drywall creating havoc. Never really heard my 2 channel listening system at its best, yet!!!!! I have zero understanding of Physics, so a simple build with dimensions would be fantastic. I “can” cut a board and glue it to another.
A room that small i would not use diffusion but braodband absorbers.
https://www.primacoustic.com/broadway-panels/
Old 19th April 2020
  #858
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for responding Ariel. I appreciate your input. I am checking the absorbers. Just hoping for more WAF look. The main objective is remedying the boomy bass for now. Other issues will come I feel sure. You think these panels will correct this. And, can these be constructed as a DIY project? Thanks. Robert
Old 17th May 2020
  #859
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Can someone who has the plans downloaded send them to me? I’ve tried Arqen.com, however the links for the thesis and the plans are not currently active :/. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help!
Old 23rd May 2020
  #860
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow House View Post
Can someone who has the plans downloaded send them to me? I’ve tried Arqen.com, however the links for the thesis and the plans are not currently active :/. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help!
same thing, lol. did you get them from someone?
Old 26th May 2020
  #861
Gear Head
 

Hallo,

I tried to download the plan from Arqen.com, but I cant download it.

When I put my name and email, it says you are not in the mailing list.

When I try to join the mailing list, it gives me an error.

I emailed Tim as well but now reply.

Can someone help me? My email is [email protected].


Thanks
Old 26th May 2020
  #862
Here for the gear
 

Still haven’t heard back from
Tim either, and unfortunately no one has offered up the files yet. Come on slutz, where you all at?
The email is [email protected]
Help a fellow slut out!
Old 26th May 2020
  #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakinPavel View Post
same thing, lol. did you get them from someone?
A fellow slut has helped me
Out with a working link! Thank you much!
Not sure if I’m sllowed to post it here so send me a pm with your email address and I’ll forward it
Over to you
Old 27th May 2020
  #864
Gear Head
 

Halo All,

Someone from Arqen emailed the blueprint. Thank you for your help.

Before I make the diffuser, I would like you ask a few questions.

Hope someone can help, I am a newbie:

1. I will use 12mm plywood, can I use all parts with 12mm thickness?

2. After base A1-LF is done, If i want to add fractal, I will use 18mm thickness, width 40mm. Mill 5mm on both sides and in middle 10mm. Is this correct?

3. 0,4,5,3,5,4 : can someone explain what is this and how this work?


Thank you
Old 1st June 2020
  #865
Gear Head
 

Halo anyone?

5 days and no one reply

Thanks
Old 6th June 2020
  #866
Here for the gear
 

Finally got the first in together. 10 more to go! Doing a 5 unit array on the back wall and 3 unit arrays on the backs of the side walls, all with depth modulation. Super excited to finally be doing these. Gonna stain when all is done, would it wise to put a layer of polyurethane as a top coat?
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Sound Diffusers—Free Blueprints—Slim, Optimized DIY Diffuser Designs (+Fractals)-7e96efe7-21a2-4397-be60-ed342b06f0e9.jpg  
Old 14th June 2020
  #867
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow House View Post
Finally got the first in together. 10 more to go! Doing a 5 unit array on the back wall and 3 unit arrays on the backs of the side walls, all with depth modulation. Super excited to finally be doing these. Gonna stain when all is done, would it wise to put a layer of polyurethane as a top coat?
Nice progress! I can't wait for the final result.

Btw. I would appreciate it if someone could send me the blueprint too!
Old 14th June 2020
  #868
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrypth View Post
Nice progress! I can't wait for the final result.

Btw. I would appreciate it if someone could send me the blueprint too!
PM sent
Old 14th June 2020
  #869
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow House View Post
PM sent
Thank you so much!
Old 17th June 2020
  #870
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow House View Post
PM sent
Hi
I would like to build the diffuser too, can I ask you the blueprints too ?

My mail : [email protected]


Thanks,
Ludo
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