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Room measuring with ECM8000
Old 17th May 2012
  #1
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Aaron Rash's Avatar
Room measuring with ECM8000

Hello,

Sorry if this question has been asked a million times but I couldn't find info on this. I got the ECM8000 in today for use with Room EQ Wizard. I'm not sure if I should be pointing it between the two speakers where I will be sitting (sweet spot) Or pointing it at either the left or right speaker. Also not sure if the mic should be pointing straight up to the ceiling since its omni, Or horizontal and possibly a angle? Any pointers would help greatly. I'm also not sure if I should be using the calibration file from home theater shack. , the mics frequency response is flat.
Old 17th May 2012
  #2
Old 17th May 2012
  #3
Gear Nut
 

As useful as the GIK tutorial is, it doesn't answer all the questions of JohnnieTech.

I'm also in the middle of running tests with the same mic and have been pointing it straight up at the mix position at tweeter (ear) height. I would like to hear about any other methods though.
Old 17th May 2012
  #4
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Rash View Post
not sure if the mic should be pointing straight up to the ceiling since its omni, Or horizontal and possibly a angle? Any pointers would help greatly. I'm also not sure if I should be using the calibration file from home theater shack. , the mics frequency response is flat.
Why point the mic at the ceiling?
Old 17th May 2012
  #5
Gear Nut
 

I don't really remember. I saw somewhere to point it to the ceiling, so that's what i did.

The thread you linked to is quite long. I'll get through it, but are we wrong to be pointing the ECM8000 to the ceiling? How should it be used?
Old 17th May 2012
  #6
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceagain View Post
The thread you linked to is quite long. I'll get through it, but are we wrong to be pointing the ECM8000 to the ceiling? How should it be used?
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7268743-post93.html

Old 17th May 2012
  #7
Gear Nut
 

ok, thanks. Plenty of grey area as usual with acoustic measurements.
Old 17th May 2012
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Actually, that thread only helped to confuse. I just watched the GIK tutorial again, and it states to point the mic up, so that's why i've been doing it like that.
Old 17th May 2012
  #9
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceagain View Post
Actually, that thread only helped to confuse. I just watched the GIK tutorial again, and it states to point the mic up, so that's why i've been doing it like that.
Acoustics is not always easy …

If you read the whole thing (or just my summery in conjunction with the manual for your mic), you can´t go wrong.


EDIT:
I haven’t watched the GIK tutorial but if you´re using a free field mic that measures flat at 0 degrees incidence, you don´t want to point it at the ceiling but towards the speaker. I guess they (GIK) assume that a diffuse field mic is used (since this is the most accurate way of measuring room acoustics) and if so, it should be pointing at the ceiling at an angle specified in the manual for the mic (at which it measures flat):

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7262986-post57.html
Old 17th May 2012
  #10
Gear Nut
 

GIK use a Behringer ECM8000 for the tutorial, stating to point it up.

Edit: I haven't seen any specifics in the Behringer documentation
Old 17th May 2012
  #11
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
So either the ECM8000 is a diffuse field mic, comes with calibration files to simulate either types, or it should be pointing towards the speaker (if it´s a free field mic that measures flat at 0 deg incidence). Since it´s a small capsule mic it won’t matter much except in the highest frequency range so don´t lose any hair over this.

There seem to be some confusion about the ECM8000 in general:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...rophone-4.html
But again, it´s a small capsule so it won´t matter much how you point it except for the highest range
Old 17th May 2012
  #12
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

Just measure, don't have to make a thread about it. Wheather it points up or down. EMC8000 works great.

It is so easy when it comes to measure acoustics, even a child can do it. Some here on GS just confuse the topic about acoustics.
Old 17th May 2012
  #13
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
It is so easy when it comes to measure acoustics, even a child can do it. Some here on GS just confuse the topic about acoustics.
Look who’s talking ...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7864770-post10.html
Old 17th May 2012
  #14
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
Yeah, but, I have +/-3dB from 20Hz-200Hz without resonanses. What do you have??
Old 17th May 2012
  #15
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
Yeah, but, I have +/-3dB from 20Hz-200Hz without resonanses. What do you have??
GIK or Realtraps?




EDIT:

and ...:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/7887830-post32.html

Old 17th May 2012
  #16
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
What do you have??
Old 17th May 2012
  #17
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceagain View Post
Actually, that thread only helped to confuse. I just watched the GIK tutorial again, and it states to point the mic up, so that's why i've been doing it like that.
I am not sure it says to point it up but needless to say you do not want to move the mic when doing multiple tests in the same spot. The only time you move the mic is if you are trying to fine tune where the mix and or speakers should be or figuring out where a problem might be coming from.
Old 17th May 2012
  #18
Gear Nut
 

How would you recommend to point the mic Glenn? I'm pretty sure it says up in your rew tutorial.

Last edited by onceagain; 17th May 2012 at 12:38 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 17th May 2012
  #19
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

It dosen't matter how you point it, just measure.
Old 17th May 2012
  #20
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceagain View Post
How would you recommend to point the mic Glenn? I'm pretty sure it says up in your rew tutorial.
I have always pointed it forward (maybe a little up) and never had a problem. I understand the debate on this but I also understand it really is a "debate". The point is to test and DO NOT move the mic unless the reasons I said in my last post.
Old 17th May 2012
  #21
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
It dosen't matter how you point it, just measure.
The expert have spoken ...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...eiling-b-k.gif

I´m not saying it will make much difference depending on the size of the capsule but still, statements like the above are just ignorant.
Old 17th May 2012
  #22
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
I have always pointed it forward (maybe a little up) and never had a problem.
Glenn, since you apparently have used it, what kind of mic is it? Free field or diffuse field (or more correctly, how is it calibrated; to measure flat at 0 deg, or at about 70-80 deg and flat if random incident)?
Old 17th May 2012
  #23
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
The expert have spoken ...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...eiling-b-k.gif

I´m not saying it will make much difference depending on the size of the capsule but still, statements like the above are just ignorant.
What will those graphs help him, he will still have 30dB spann in the freq resp wheather he points the mic up or down. You don't have the solution for it, do you.

The EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated, JUST MEASURE, for crying out loud.
Old 17th May 2012
  #24
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
What will those graphs help him, he will still have 30dB spann in the freq resp wheather he points the mic up or down. You don't have the solution for it, do you.

The EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated, JUST MEASURE, for crying out loud.
Do you seriously feel that you’re helping out more or what?

Why not use the tools as intended instead of just guessing?

Oh, and the "EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated" ... yes, obviously ... to measure flat in what type of field?!
Old 17th May 2012
  #25
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
Do you seriously feel that you’re helping out more or what?

Why not use the tools as intended instead of just guessing?

Oh, and the "EMC8000 mic is allready calibrated" ... yes, obviously ... but to measure flat in what type of field?!
I have EMC8000 mic myself, I have flat response, great mic.
Old 17th May 2012
  #26
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
I have EMC8000 mic myself, I have flat response, great mic.
ok ...

So what type of mic is it then (or do I need to download the manual ...)?
Old 17th May 2012
  #27
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
ok ...

So what type of mic is it then (or do I need to download the manual ...)?
I have an great idea..
Post some measurements of your controlrooms and post it here with the EMC8000 mic so we can see the differen't.
Not much point showing other peoples measurements if you not showing yours.
Old 17th May 2012
  #28
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mctwins View Post
I have an great idea..
Post some measurements of your controlrooms and post it here with the EMC8000 mic so we can see the differen't.
Not much point showing other peoples measurements if you not showing yours.


I don´t have a EMC8000.
Old 17th May 2012
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Mctwins, are any of your measurements posted on here? I would like to view them if possible, out of interest.
Old 17th May 2012
  #30
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Mctwins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post


I don´t have a EMC8000.
I can come and do some measurements for you, if you wan't. In one of your controlrooms that is.
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