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HELP! Too Late to turn back on Floating Floor
Old 29th December 2010
  #1
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

HELP! Too Late to turn back on Floating Floor

I decided to build my studio in my garage using a floating floor on top of the concrete slab. This decision was made so that the construction would not be permanent should I ever decide to sell my home. Suffice it to say I probably should have just constructed on the concrete slab. I'm already well into the construction and want to continue with the present construction plans. I'm now worried that I will have problems with my floor. Could you please look at the pictures and let me know what you think? I'm building this studio for band practice and tracking. I would like the sound to be very good but I'm not looking for the "ultra" sound studio. The floor is constructed using 2x4 framing 16" odc on top of 2 layers of carpet pad on the concrete slab. It is then filled with R19 fiberglass insulation and topped with 3/4" foam insulation sheets under 3/4" floor board. I will put very thick carpet pad and carpeting on top to finish out the floor. I will build the walls on top of this structure using staggered stud dual walls with 1" space between the 2 walls. Interior walls will be 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock with Green Glue between. Outside wall will be 1 layer of 5/8" sheetrock. Both walls will have R19 fiberglass insulation. Any encouragement and/or ideas will be GREATLY appreciated.

Cheers,

Ken
Attached Thumbnails
HELP! Too Late to turn back on Floating Floor-garge-space.jpg   HELP! Too Late to turn back on Floating Floor-sub-floor-underlayment.jpg   HELP! Too Late to turn back on Floating Floor-sub-floor.jpg  

Last edited by Jetspeed; 29th December 2010 at 07:37 AM.. Reason: add pictures
Old 29th December 2010
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
stuntbutt's Avatar
 

What are you hoping to achieve with this room? I can't comment on what you are building without knowing your expectations of the completed room.
Old 29th December 2010
  #3
Here for the gear
 

What problems are you worried about? The acoustic effects? Or whether or not the process will be reversable?
Old 29th December 2010
  #4
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

I'm trying to achieve a room with good sound proof qualities for my band to practice and also achieve a decent sound for tracking and mixing.
Old 29th December 2010
  #5
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

Hi Michael,
I'm most concerned with the acoustics.
Old 29th December 2010
  #6
SAC
Registered User
 

Why, pray tell are you worried about sound transmission through a concrete slab floor???

Do you have a serious problem with really large gophers who throw really loud parties? (The answer may be to simply get invited to their parties!)

I seriously fear that this is a solution in search of e problem!

Addressing the internal acoustics of the room is important. But isolation and interior room acoustics are two separate issues requiring radically different treatment.

Before you proceed further, you need to sit down and define exactly what the real problems are. And THEN you can make a reasonable plan that will adequately address the real problems in a judicious manner.



And having this thread posted in the proper area will also help!
Old 29th December 2010
  #7
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

Hi SAC,
Thanks for your reply. I've built a wooden sub floor on top of the concrete. On top of this wood floor will sit the walls and ceiling, hence my concern over the possibility of vibrations/low freq's transmitting through the floor to walls and ceiling. Forgive my ignorance if this is not a consideration to ponder but I'm quite the newbie.

I'm in understanding their are differences in build consideration for isolation and acoustics. I'm trying to get isolation first and then as descent a sounding room as I can. This room will be used for personal use, band practice, recording and personal projects.

Again, thanks for your reply and if you have anything you can think of that may help me along I'd appreciate you input.

Cheers
Old 29th December 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetspeed View Post
I'm trying to achieve a room with good sound proof qualities for my band to practice and also achieve a decent sound for tracking and mixing.
The raised wooden deck will have LESS low freq. isolation to the outside world than building directly on the slab.

The raised wooden deck will resonate like a drum at some frequency that will likely be problematic to achieving a "decent sound for tracking and mixing".
Old 30th December 2010
  #9
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

Dammit!!! I think I'm going to tear up what I have and build on the slab. Expensive lesson.
Old 30th December 2010
  #10
Lives for gear
 
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Isolation rooms that I've built in the past have always been constructed with the walls being built off the concrete slab and then a floating floor constructed inside but not connected to the walls.

Building the walls off the floating base would not be good way to keep the noise in IMHO. Vibrations through the wooden floor could cause the walls to act like the sounding board in a piano.
Mechanical isolation of the walls from the floor is the way to go.
Old 30th December 2010
  #11
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

Hi Kenton,
Thanks so much for your reply. I'm encouraged by your advice. I can conceivably construct the walls away from the floating floor that I'm currently constructing. My only questions now would be if I am going about building the floating floor with any integrity in terms of decent isolation and/or acoustic qualities. Do I have a good plan going so as to keep the floor from rumbling like a snare drum. I understand that being away from the walls at least there will be no coupled transmission but do you foresee any other problems I may encounter with this floor? I plan to cover the floor with a thick carpet pad and carpeting and possibly even treat the floor with a isolation padding. What do you think? Also, how far from the floor should I build the walls and should I fill the resulting space with anything and if so what do you suggest? Thanks so much in advance for your time and patients.

Cheers,

Ken
Old 31st December 2010
  #12
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetspeed View Post
I decided to build my studio in my garage using a floating floor on top of the concrete slab. This decision was made so that the construction would not be permanent should I ever decide to sell my home. Suffice it to say I probably should have just constructed on the concrete slab. I'm already well into the construction and want to continue with the present construction plans. I'm now worried that I will have problems with my floor. Could you please look at the pictures and let me know what you think? I'm building this studio for band practice and tracking. I would like the sound to be very good but I'm not looking for the "ultra" sound studio. The floor is constructed using 2x4 framing 16" odc on top of 2 layers of carpet pad on the concrete slab. It is then filled with R19 fiberglass insulation and topped with 3/4" foam insulation sheets under 3/4" floor board. I will put very thick carpet pad and carpeting on top to finish out the floor. I will build the walls on top of this structure using staggered stud dual walls with 1" space between the 2 walls. Interior walls will be 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock with Green Glue between. Outside wall will be 1 layer of 5/8" sheetrock. Both walls will have R19 fiberglass insulation. Any encouragement and/or ideas will be GREATLY appreciated.
Ken, The construction you described is fine for what you are doing. The floor is unnecessary as long as the bottom of all the walls seal well to the concrete. It is true that a platform like you are building will actually reduce STL at lower frequencies and is not recommended. However, for your purposes, it won't hurt anything but your pocket book.

If you follow what you wrote and ensure that the fiberglass and foam insulation is pressed tightly against the plywood top, you shouldn't have much of a resonance problem. But I would never suggest this type of construction for any room to be used as a music room because is does introduce unwanted sounds. Your choice to keep it or remove. From what you described, IMO, it probably won't hurt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetspeed View Post
Hi Kenton,
Thanks so much for your reply. I'm encouraged by your advice. I can conceivably construct the walls away from the floating floor that I'm currently constructing. My only questions now would be if I am going about building the floating floor with any integrity in terms of decent isolation and/or acoustic qualities.
If I may answer this; The only real 'floating floor' is a massive concrete pour on tested resilient material or springs and has a resonsnce of 10Hz or less. Anything other than this is a waste of time and money as far as isolation is concerned. There are also other reasons to raise a floor; a. Floor troughs for wiring b. impact isolation c. thermal...

The walls are always built on the floating floor. This isolates the entire interior 'room'. I won't go into it here as it is not related to this thread.

Your isolation will probably be the same whether or not you build the walls of your room on this platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetspeed View Post
Do I have a good plan going so as to keep the floor from rumbling like a snare drum. I understand that being away from the walls at least there will be no coupled transmission but do you foresee any other problems I may encounter with this floor? I plan to cover the floor with a thick carpet pad and carpeting and possibly even treat the floor with a isolation padding. What do you think?
Covering your platform floor with carpet padding & carpet will improve the damping and you shouldn't experience any problematic resonances. - If you build as described.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetspeed View Post
Also, how far from the floor should I build the walls and should I fill the resulting space with anything and if so what do you suggest? Thanks so much in advance for your time and patients.
Nah, don't do that. It will not make any difference. Build as you planned. with or without the floor. If you go with the floor, be sure it is sealed well at the perimeter with caulk (OSI SN-175 or similar) and the exterior gypsum board goes down to 3/8" - 1/2" above the slab floor - then backer rod & and caulk the gap.

Note: STL from the floor will be worse with the platform base as you will have 3/4" plywood on the interior of the floor- through cavity insulation - then exterior 5/8" gypsum board to the outside. This is your weakest link, transmitting sound around the perimeter wall.
- Yeah, maybe better to build the walls on the slab outside the platform floor. But the walls should then be built first so that the two layers of gypsum board go all the way to the slab on the inside and the one layer goes to the slab on the outside, effectively sealing the enclosure and ensuring a uniform STL throughout the enclosure. The platform, if you want, can then be built inside... I wouldn't recommend it & I don't see any advantages... only disadvantages.

Take care to get enough volume in your room. The minimum recommended is 1500 cubic feet. This is very important, otherwise you will be spending more than you planned on trapping. Have a look at my pubs and Room Mode Calculator here. Good luck & happy new year!

Cheers,
John
Old 31st December 2010
  #13
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

Wow! Awesome stuff John. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out with your reply.

Cheers and a Happy New Year to you as well.
Old 3rd January 2011
  #14
Gear Head
 
Jetspeed's Avatar
 

Decided to tear up the floor. Better to intervene now before continuing with a mistake. Oh well, chalk it up to price paid to learn.

I going with construction of a double frame wall directly on the concrete.

Thanks to all for your input.

Cheers
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