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Acoustic treatment in a small room Dynamics Plugins
Old 28th December 2010
  #1
Acoustic treatment in a small room

Hello friends, I ask your help to those who know how to adapt acoustically a room for a mixing/control room... the room dimensions are not the best or ideal but the challenge is to make it sound good and if I can count on your help would be incredible.


Length: 3.72 meters
Width: 2.86 meters
Height: 2.3 meters


I enclose a few pictures, the truth is that I don't know where to start, my idea is to put the cabinet of the computer monitors, console along the wall where the window is large, so I have at this time but I found problems of standing waves by 92hz, I would like to get extra help to know where to start, if you make measurements, calculations, such as knowing where to place absorbent material, etc, thank you very much!
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Acoustic treatment in a small room-screen-shot-2010-12-27-11.16.36-am.png   Acoustic treatment in a small room-screen-shot-2010-12-19-12.41.57-pm.jpg   Acoustic treatment in a small room-la-foto.jpg  
Old 28th December 2010
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliomonroy View Post
I don't know where to start
You need bass traps in corners and absorbers at reflection points. This short article explains the basics in plain English:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 29th December 2010
  #3
Ethan thanks a lot, I read the whole page, now it's more clearly for me...

I've got a few questions for you..

How can I center my position on the side walls if you say that the best is not to be halfway from the side walls?

I saw that you made some measurement with a sofa in the rear wall, I'd like to put a sofa in that wall for my clients, do you think is a good or bad idea? I've seen a lot of studios with a sofa on the rear wall.


And my last question, do you think a diffuser in the rear wall works better than absorption?

Ethan thanks a LOT
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Old 29th December 2010
  #4
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Julio,

Your room is not quite deep enough for a diffusor. If you start at a position of about 139.5cm from the front wall, this will put you 232.5cm from the back wall. A little close. May you could do with a PRD there because their source reflection is severely attenuated.

Also, by placing your mix position 139.5cm from the front wall you will not be in a peak or a null. The null is your primary length axial mode. You could also try positions of 106cm and 159.5cm from the front wall.

Read Ethan's article from more explanations.

Cheers,
John
Old 29th December 2010
  #5
Acoustic treatment in a small room

Hi John thanks for your answer, I guess that 139,5 is because the 38 percent rule, am i right? You told me to try 106 and 159.5, do you thinkg that in this zones something interesting is happening?

And byr the way, what so you think about placing a sofa at the rear wall?

Thanks!!! :D
Old 29th December 2010
  #6
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Julio,

Yeah, either a small sofa or some folding chairs... it's getting smaller in there. It's up to you.

Yes, the first figure is at 3/8th, then you have a few other odd fractions like, 2/7 & 3/7. These are good starting points where you are not in a peak or a null of the length axial mode.

Cheers,
John
Old 29th December 2010
  #7
Acoustic treatment in a small room

Thanks John, well the sofa is for my clients to have them "away" from me, and maybe reduce the reverb time, I'm going to check the positions that you gave to starting to place my monitors, thanks John you have been very kind with me.
Old 29th December 2010
  #9
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliomonroy View Post
How can I center my position on the side walls if you say that the best is not to be halfway from the side walls?
John answered all your other questions so I'll address only this. It's a conundrum about ideal symmetry versus avoiding the exact center of the room left and right. But a few inches makes all the difference. So even if your nose is precisely centered left-right, each ear is still a few inches away from the center. heh

Seriously, a few inches either way is not the end of the world. Nobody sits perfectly still anyway. The more important "center" to avoid is front to back.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 29th December 2010
  #10
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
It's a conundrum about ideal symmetry versus avoiding the exact center of the room left and right. But a few inches makes all the difference. So even if your nose is precisely centered left-right, each ear is still a few inches away from the center. heh

Seriously, a few inches either way is not the end of the world. Nobody sits perfectly still anyway. The more important "center" to avoid is front to back.
+1 with a bullet! In addition the deep nuls that occurr at our noses when perfectly centered left-righ in a room disappear at our ears!

Andre
Old 29th December 2010
  #11
Thanks for eveything, now I know how to begin, THANKS!
Old 30th December 2010
  #12
My room is similar. Here's how I went about it, with Ethan's help:

Small Room Treatment - MusicPlayer Forums

..ant
Old 30th December 2010
  #13
Ant, I've read all your post, it's an excellent post, congratulations, you help me a lot with all that ideas, I've got a question, how did you make the bass traps?

Thanks a lot Ant!
Old 30th December 2010
  #14
I used the following tutorials:

Walls and Ceiling (Panels)

YouTube - killermagnet's Channel

Corners (Superchunks)

Studiotips SuperChunk
Cut rigid fiberglass for a corner bass trap


.ant
Old 30th December 2010
  #15
BTW I think you mis-posted one of the images in your original post. It appears to be a web order confirmation form. You probably want to remove it.

..ant
Old 31st December 2010
  #16
Ant, It's incredible, did you cut in triangles the material o make the superchunk from floor to ceiling? Woa.
Old 31st December 2010
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliomonroy View Post
Ant, It's incredible, did you cut in triangles the material o make the superchunk from floor to ceiling? Woa.
Yes, it was quite a bit of work, made a bit easier because my ceiling is only 7 feet high. All worth it as it sounds great and it's really amazing the sound I'm getting out of such a small space.

As I describe in the posting, I made individual 1 foot and 2 foot high sections, each wrapped in paper and taped like a present. They are simply stacked and stuffed into the corners, with a couple of towels to hold them firmly in place, and draped with fabric so they look decent. Perfect solution for my small room and would also be good for someone in an apartment or other situation where they can't install anything permanent.

..ant
Old 1st January 2011
  #18
Acoustic treatment in a small room

Ant, do you think that is extremely necessary to fill the triangle of the corner? I've seen bass traps that are the material cut in big rectangles (about 2' x 4') and vertical in the corner, like the post that you send me about the ceilings and walls, but there will be a triangle hole if you put it like that, What do you think?
Old 1st January 2011
  #19
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliomonroy View Post
Ant, do you think that is extremely necessary to fill the triangle of the corner? I've seen bass traps that are the material cut in big rectangles (about 2' x 4') and vertical in the corner, like the post that you send me about the ceilings and walls, but there will be a triangle hole if you put it like that, What do you think?
Filling is best.

Andre
Old 2nd January 2011
  #20
I'd have to agree that filling in best. But everything helps and my understanding is that putting in angled traps with a gap in the corner will help some. I haven't tried it. You could also try putting in a 2' filled section on each top and bottom corner, i.e. not stacked floor to ceiling with a gap in the midsection. That way at least the corners are filled.

The smaller the room, the more aggressive you need to be. It can get expensive but if you plan well, you can get some pretty deals when you buy all your 703.

If you're recording at all, also plan for a little extra 703, you can make some homemade "reflexion" style traps that will help when recording. I would really recommend this especially if you can't put in as much 703.

..ant
Old 2nd January 2011
  #21
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by antstudio View Post
I'd have to agree that filling in best. But everything helps and my understanding is that putting in angled traps with a gap in the corner will help some. I haven't tried it. You could also try putting in a 2' filled section on each top and bottom corner, i.e. not stacked floor to ceiling with a gap in the midsection. That way at least the corners are filled.
????? Why? If you want he best, fill the corner with pink type insulation. It is the best acoustically. It also happens to be the cheapest.

Andre
Old 3rd January 2011
  #22
Acoustic treatment in a small room

Makes sense. Why have a gap when you can fill with standard pink insulation?
Old 5th January 2011
  #23
Thanks for all your help!!

Well I'm going to make the superchunk and the panels, but before I do that I have a question.

Here in my country sells rock wool, and fiber glass, they gave me different densities.

Rock wool "sonowall": 30kg/m3
Acoustic Rock wool: 144kg/m3
Black theater (fiberglass with fabric): 60kg/m3
Normal Fiberglass 91kg/m3


The thing is that I don't know which to choose, of course the price of them all are different, so I'm afraid that If I buy the panel with the most density maybe it could be equal to the panel with less density, you know, it's all about to improve the acoustic of my room... Thanks friends!
thumbsup
Old 5th January 2011
  #24
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliomonroy View Post
Thanks for all your help!!

Well I'm going to make the superchunk and the panels, but before I do that I have a question.

Here in my country sells rock wool, and fiber glass, they gave me different densities.

Rock wool "sonowall": 30kg/m3
Acoustic Rock wool: 144kg/m3
Black theater (fiberglass with fabric): 60kg/m3
Normal Fiberglass 91kg/m3


The thing is that I don't know which to choose, of course the price of them all are different, so I'm afraid that If I buy the panel with the most density maybe it could be equal to the panel with less density, you know, it's all about to improve the acoustic of my room... Thanks friends!
thumbsup
The best for superchunk is the "Rock wool "sonowall": 30kg/m3"

Andre
Old 5th January 2011
  #25
thanks andre, just to learn, why 30kg/m3 and not 144kg/m3?

And, for the panels, what would you choose?
Old 5th January 2011
  #26
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isham's Avatar
hello,
I'm in the same boat (my room is almost the same as yours), see pics if it may inspire you, my goal was (and still can be improved I'm sure) to make it as dead as possible as I'm tracking vocals in this one (it is a vocal booth at the end, I'm not mixing there nor recording acoustic instruments, aha)

my room history (acoustic only) in pics
I took a bundle from gik acoustic and added some blankets to make even more dead sounding...
I will add more bass traps when possible .
cheers,
Isham
Old 5th January 2011
  #27
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliomonroy View Post
thanks andre, just to learn, why 30kg/m3 and not 144kg/m3?
That is a deceptively simple question. As the frequency lowers, the need is for material that provides a smooth absorption over a longer physical distance. If you want a more technical explanation, read Interpreting Materials Gas Flow Properties.

Good luck with with your improved acoustics!

Andre
Old 10th February 2011
  #28
Acoustic treatment in a small room

Finally John Brandt made the analysis for my studio and it works great, thanks John!!!!
Old 10th February 2011
  #29
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliomonroy View Post
Finally John Brandt made the analysis for my studio and it works great, thanks John!!!!
John is great.

Andre
Old 10th February 2011
  #30
Yeah, now i hear better a lot, I was thinking of doing all of this by myself, but I've found that is better to hire a professional to do this things..

thanks a lot John!
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