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Treating my Room properly :) Dynamics Plugins
Old 20th December 2010
  #1
Smile Treating my Room properly :)

Hello Guys

The title already explains everything: I want to apply some accoustic treatments to my room. In the last weeks I was talking to some guys from the forum, while "johndykstra" was the biggest help to me. He worked on a solution for me, which looked like the following:

Zippyshare.com - yellowbears.skp


Plus here is my first drawing of my room...might be a help to you

Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/jkhoicj

there is one fault, the wall behind the bed is 4 meters ( actually just 3,5m, but the little jut is 0,5 meters)

the vertical wall on the bed side is 0,9 meters
and on the other side its 1,7 meters

So the questions that I have now are:

What do you guys think about John's concept?

Some guys recomanded me to sit the other way around?

Are there any other options?



Thank you for taking your time!

Oliver
Old 20th December 2010
  #2
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johndykstra's Avatar
 

Hey Oli,

sorry my emailing fell off. best to get opinions from john, andre, and glenn regardless.

my quick ray traces off the front and back ceiling angles showed no destructive reflections in the mixing zone. this is one reason I suggested this orientation.

the other was to keep more headroom in the part of the room where you are standing more, and the lower ceiling in the area where you are typically seated. makes sense, I think.

We'll see what the real experts have to say.

Here's some screen shots for those who don't want to download the file:
Treating my Room properly :)-yb-side-measures.jpgTreating my Room properly :)-yb-angle.jpg
Old 21st December 2010
  #3
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Oli,

The drawing that John did for you is great. I would go with that. If any reflections from the windows in the rear are observed after testing, you can place one or two 4 - 6" thick absorption panels on stands behind the mix position. The windows will also act like bass absorbers by transmitting the LF outside.

Be sure to place the bass trapping that is drawn at the low wall in front. The slanting ceiling in front of you should be left untreated.

Cheers,
John
Old 21st December 2010
  #4
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 

Hi Oli,

I got your PM, but i can see that i am quite superfuous. You've allready got the attention and assistance of some really cool guys here (two of my personal favorites in fact) so just relax and pay attention. heh I'll definitely keep an eye on your thread though, and aid and suggest wherever i can...

The layout looks very sensible by the way, great job Dyk, as always...


Cheers,
Old 21st December 2010
  #5
Okay! thank you guys!

Where would you place some diffusors?

And there is one thing on my mind that kind of troubles me...
If i'm gona make the absorbers myself, how can I be sure that the air won't be polluted by the fiberglass/mineralwool.( of course I wont built them in my room ) What kind of textile should I use?

and is it really necessary to treat all of the front and back wall? or can i just add the basstraps plus 2,3 absorbers?
Old 21st December 2010
  #6
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowbears View Post
Where would you place some diffusors?
The best place for diffusers are usually on the rear wall or perhaps on the sidewalls at the rear, but i'll leave the ISD calculations to Dyk and Mr Brandt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowbears View Post
And there is one thing on my mind that kind of troubles me...
If i'm gona make the absorbers myself, how can I be sure that the air won't be polluted by the fiberglass/mineralwool.( of course I wont built them in my room ) What kind of textile should I use?
Cover the insulation with fabric. You should be able to blow through the fabric. If there is even the slightest resistance it will keep the insulation fibers in. thumbsup


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowbears View Post
and is it really necessary to treat all of the front and back wall? or can i just add the basstraps plus 2,3 absorbers?
The thicker the traps on the front/rear wall, the more you will attenuate your longitude modes. i.e. I would follow Dyk's recommendations...

The only thing i can see is the possibility of SBIR coming of the front wall ceiling, above/behind the speakers...?


Cheers,
Old 21st December 2010
  #7
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 

SBIR?

Necessary??
Attached Thumbnails
Treating my Room properly :)-2-panels.jpg   Treating my Room properly :)-1-panel.jpg  
Old 21st December 2010
  #8
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
The slanting ceiling in front of you should be left untreated.
I guess not! But i'm not quite sure why though...



Cheers,
Old 21st December 2010
  #9
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johndykstra's Avatar
 

The angled nature of the front ceiling makes the effect of SBIR more "broadband",...kinda. The relationship of that boundary to the speakers is never constant, so it's effects are not as compounded as a vertical or horizontal wall. At least this is my thinking.

Here is a jpeg of the ceiling bounce. Yellow is direct signal. Blue and green depict the bounce created by both ceiling angles. Works quite nicely.

Treating my Room properly :)-swiss-ceiling-bounce.jpg

Diffusors are best left to a room that will be measured acoustically. If you wish to get this in depth (not "hard: per say, just involves more learning and time. I wouldn't recommend diffusors until after some measurements have been made.

The current room plan is a jumping off point. Additions to this plan should be considered only by your willingness to take it to the next level.

Concerning the front and back wall treatment... thickness is of course a large part of what determines a bass traps effectiveness. What should not be over looked is also face size. The complete coverage of both walls will really help to tame the primary axial mode of the length (not to mention harmonics and non axial modes involved in the same plane). They will also, because of their thickness and surface area have a good effect on height and width modes as well.
Old 21st December 2010
  #10
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndykstra View Post
The angled nature of the front ceiling makes the effect of SBIR more "broadband",...kinda. The relationship of that boundary to the speakers is never constant, so it's effects are not as compounded as a vertical or horizontal wall.
I figured it would be something like that, good logic and good to know!


Quote:
Originally Posted by johndykstra View Post
Concerning the front and back wall treatment... thickness is of course a large part of what determines a bass traps effectiveness. What should not be over looked is also face size.
Dont know why i didn't mention that, as that was really what Yellow was asking about. Good thing your out there Dyk, to explain, unfold, evolve and expound so as to make it all understandable. heh


Cheers,
Old 21st December 2010
  #11
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johndykstra's Avatar
 

Never would have pegged you as a country music fan Soren. thumbsup
Old 21st December 2010
  #12
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SörenHjalmarsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndykstra View Post
Never would have pegged you as a country music fan Soren. thumbsup
I'll be honest with you Dyk, it's not my main occupation (probably a good thing aye?) heh This was a very unpretentious project that me and my neighbor engendered quite a few years ago. It was one of those "let's do something fun while the wifey's are in town" kind of thing, and he happends to be an old full time dansbands musician (Dansband = Country).
So i think i'd better remove it quite soon, before some old Nashville veteran like Mr Brandt gets a chance to hear it. heh But on the other hand... If some "self offering" is what it takes to spread the holyday feeling, than thats what i'll do!

So even though i'm more of a Rock kind of guy myself, i was actually brought up on Country music (father's a fanatic) and i was forced to listen to old LP's by Poco, the Eagles, Dolly Parton, Kris Kristoffersen, Waylon Jennings, etc., all through my early years.
And even though it's not what i normally do, i'll gladly listen to Nashville/Country music any day of the week. Or any music genre for that matter, music is the soul purpose in life (along with movies, theater, books, 'muscle adding', women, wine, dancing... ) (Oh! and youngins of course... )

Anyway... enough about me and more about Yellowbears! heh (this was starting to sound like a personal ad anyway)


Cheers,
Old 24th December 2010
  #13
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jhbrandt's Avatar
OP,

I think that you will find that you do not need any more diffusion that you will be getting with the current treatment suggestion by John D. This leaves the room fairly open and with the absorption panel placement actually creates a more diffuse atmosphere. Try it & test it.. & we'll go from there.

Cheers,
John
Old 24th December 2010
  #14
Okay okay. thank you guys. So i guess, Ill start building and installing the absorbers. Ill let you guys know, how it worked and if there are problems left.

Merry Christmas
Old 5th December 2011
  #15
What more?

Okay so I finished treating the room, like the model we worked out. The difference is really great! Though I'm not 100% satisfied with it! What could I to make it even sound better? I want to get the best results out of the room! Please help me take it to the next level! Thank you!
Old 5th December 2011
  #16
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johndykstra's Avatar
 

What is it about the space you are not yet satisfied with?

Have you executed any measurements?
Old 5th December 2011
  #17
No, I haven't done any measurements, it's just that I have been to some professional studies lateley, and it sounded much nicer! Of course I know, that my room is not to designed to be a professional studio heh, and I'm not a acoustic genious either, so I just wanted to know, if there is anything that i could do.

Things I know: - no early reflections from screen or desk: really small, 6° degree
- no bad effects from window ( put something over it )
- the traps are about 15 cm, rockwool

Any ideas how to improve it?

Thank you!
Old 5th December 2011
  #18
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JLiRD808's Avatar
U say uve been to some professional studios lately but were u listening to the same tracks u listen to in ur room? That being said..what are u listening to to determine how u feel about the room? Has it been professionally mixed/mastered? On top of that...the studios probably had higher quality monitors than those KRKs (can't tell which models lol)

The rooms not really supposed to "sound nice" as much as its supposed to "be accurate".

And get into REW and buy an omni measurement mic and start doing some testing!

Sent from my Droid using Gearslutz.com
Old 5th December 2011
  #19
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johndykstra's Avatar
 

Hey Yellowbears.

We can (and by 'we' I mean those of use with a cursory knowledge of acoustics) formulate a rather effective template of a plan that will without much doubt improve the acoustics of a room. This is what has presumably been executed to this point.

Improvements upon the template or "cookie cut" design, while certainly possible, are near impossible without objective data to show us what still needs to be addressed. Again, this would be the case when working with the aforementioned 'we'.... there are without doubt some of 'them' around (those with much more than cursory knowledge), who are able to evaluate designs on a more intuitive level. To this point you've yet to even provide some subjective observations as to what possibly could benefit from improving. It would truly be a shot in the dark at this point.


Your options from here are to dig in to some measurements allowing "we" to collectively analyze your data and develop a plan, or hope and wait for a 'them' to decide to chime in. Be weary of suggestions from faceless "thems"... anyone with the ability to work on such an intuitive level is rarely gonna give up gems for free, so there are a lot of "them" pretenders out there.

Some pictures of your execution of the design to this point would also be of benefit. You mention traps of 15cm (~5.9") thickness. In the original drawings the front and back wall bass traps were 1' (30.5cm).
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