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Help with layout ideas- this or this or that Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 15th December 2010
  #1
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RhOdEz's Avatar
 

Help with layout ideas- this or this or that

I'm trying to figure out the best sounding outcome .

some layouts look weird ,but it is what it is

help?




it's located in commercial concrete building ,there's noone around after 5 PM ,
i can record and listen loud at night ,so isolation is not that important .
Entrance is from a street ,so i'd like to add some wall near it (the left side on the pictures )
Attached Thumbnails
Help with layout ideas-  this or this or that-empty-space1.jpg   Help with layout ideas-  this or this or that-layout-1.jpg   Help with layout ideas-  this or this or that-layout-2.jpg   Help with layout ideas-  this or this or that-layout-3.jpg   Help with layout ideas-  this or this or that-layout-4.jpg  

Old 15th December 2010
  #2
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jhbrandt's Avatar
The third thumbnail from the left.

Rectangular CR facing the short wall. All of the others have major problems.

Cheers,
John
Old 15th December 2010
  #3
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RhOdEz's Avatar
 

thans a lot

that one is simple and cheaper to build ,and then i can proceed
with "usual" positioning of wide band absorbers on a side walls and ceiling ?
i need to kill the reverb ,now its 3-4 seconds tail in empty room

in that case back wall is far away and not much treatment needed there ?
and since it'll be drywall filled with insulation it'll function as primitive bass trap itself ?

thanks for help
Old 15th December 2010
  #4
Gear Guru
Wall

I agree with the choice. I am curious about that wall on the street side.
What is it's purpose? If isolation is not the goal then you could construct a 'Wall' say 1 foot thick composed of a frame filled with cheap fluffy insulation. Fabric covered with perhaps wooden Laths. A pretty serious back wall trap.
DD
Old 15th December 2010
  #5
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhOdEz View Post
.......in that case back wall is far away and not much treatment needed there ?
and since it'll be drywall filled with insulation it'll function as primitive bass trap itself ?
Back wall treatment is very important but the type of treatment depends on room design. A gypsum board partition filled with insulation does not make a very good bass trap unless the partition is over 4 feet thick (1.2 meters) - then it might trap some bass.

(A normal framed partition with one layer of gypsum board on each side will allow passage of bass frequencies through the partition. The partition does not act as a trap, it simply does not appear to be there or offers little resistance for the low frequencies which are allowed to escape.)

Dan's recommendation is very good if you do not need much isolation - again, it very much depends on the construction of the exterior wall/windows/door, etc. -- I would also recommend an absorptive rear wall.

Cheers,
John
Old 15th December 2010
  #6
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RhOdEz's Avatar
 

guys you rock thumbsup

about that wall on the street side :

street side of space (on the left of the picture ) is all glass .
Doors are aluminium frame and all glass ,rest is 2 meters high window,
it was supposed to be small shop where you can see what's inside .

so that additional wall should indeed serve as sound isolation layer ,and to make control room more private (i dont care for daylight also - night bird here )

it seems i underestimated that wall - thanks for pointing that out guys thumbsup .

entrance is separated from street by small passage ,and small parking lot ,
so i don't need 100 db isolation with that wall ,now you got me thinking how to make it ....
Old 15th December 2010
  #7
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RhOdEz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
'Wall' say 1 foot thick composed of a frame filled with cheap fluffy insulation. Fabric covered with perhaps wooden Laths. A pretty serious back wall trap.
DD
I'm seriously brain challenged when it comes to construction stuff ,so excuse me for a stupid question :

in general it goes like :

fabric---wooden laths---fluffy insulation(rockwool ? )---laths---fabric ?
Old 15th December 2010
  #8
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Sure you can do that if you need Zero isolation. Low and mid frequency sound will pretty much pass right through that configuration. However, I would not recommend slats on the inside of the room. Make the surface of your new wall absorptive & cover only with fabric. You will, of course, need a door and frame. You can hang an absorption panel on the door to cut it's reflectivity.

Cheers,
John
Old 16th December 2010
  #9
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RhOdEz's Avatar
 

well now i realize what Pandora's box is - i got the keys for one heh

okay first i'd like to thank you again for taking interest in this ,
i read lots of topics ,few books on acoustics ,saw what people are doing etc

currently there is no budget for full blown proper studio construction ,
i plan to do it at later stage ,for now i just rented that space for very cheap ,
it is really close to my home ,and it's going to be used as preproduction
/composing/editing DAW based room with some minor recordings of voiceover /demo vocals /demo acoustic guitar etc .
final mixing and recording is going to be done in proper studios anyway ,
so now perfect sounding room is not that important (but i know how it'll endup - pandora you evil bitch stike )
okay basic goal is to kill some reverb/reflections ,and eventually create that "wall" on a street side .
I just realized that position and construction method of that wall will determine room modes ,and i'm probably using the wrong expression too heh
so i'm now trying to figure out approx position of that wall :
Height=2.75 meters
Width =3.43
Length= ??????

I'll make the surface of new wall absorptive & cover only with fabric ,
as soon as my brain figures out exactly how to do it and where to place it .
Old 16th December 2010
  #10
Gear Guru
Wall details

For isolation the wall construction can be one or two isolated layers of sheetrock. Designs and performance here. http://www.isover.co.uk/article.asp?id=363
Such walls will have some bass absorption. You could thicken the gypsum layer by doubling the sheets. This would increase isolation and bring down the absorption peak frequency.

Another inside layer is needed for sound treatment. You have choices from a thick layer of light cheap fibreglass in a frame, to resonant panel or perforated traps. Thick fibre is the simplest in terms of design and construction.
I would go one foot thick as you can afford the space. Your room is long, so any HF reflections from behind are 3-4 Metres from your mix seat. That puts them around the 20mS late which is great.
Because of this delay, some diffusion or scattering on the back wall would probably be very beneficial.

DD
Old 16th December 2010
  #11
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RhOdEz's Avatar
 

thanks a lot i think i'm starting to understand it better ,
unfortunately that link is not working ,it looks like isover reorganized their site or something ,if you can remember the name of article i'll try to dig it there .
But the wall concept is more clear to me now :
On a street/entrance side - double sheetrock layer wall ,door on that frame
Inside CR one foot thick fiber covered with cloth ,and some diffuser attached.
Also absorption panel on the door of new wall .
It'll work

and oh meanwhile i discovered online Room Modes calculator:

http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm
which should help me to find good position of my wall ?

I won't even pretend i'm fully understanding results of my entered room dimensions there but by changing Length centimeter by centimeter ,
Length of 4.17m got nice overall results (the only one without word "fail" on calc based on http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/techreview/trev_274-hoeg.pdf )

Room Dimensions: Length=4.17 m, Width=3.43 m, Height=2.76 m
Room Ratio: 1 : 1.24 : 1.51

Second best is (tied)? ("greenest" looking overall maybe i should pick this one ?)
Room Dimensions: Length=5.27 m, Width=3.43 m, Height=2.76 m
Room Ratio: 1 : 1.24 : 1.91

third best ?
Room Dimensions: Length=4.47 m, Width=3.43 m, Height=2.76 m
Room Ratio: 1 : 1.24 : 1.61

now to pick one of three poisons and i'm all set heh
Old 17th December 2010
  #12
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jhbrandt's Avatar
RhOdEz,

Dan's recommendations are spot on...

Use the mode calculator only if you are building a gypsum board or massive wall. I have a Room Mode Calculator on my publications page that you can adjust the dimension to what ever you want without regard to 'ratios'. My calculator has a better Bonnello distribution chart and, IMO, is overall easier to read. There is a MAM calculator inside my First Reflection Calculator too.

Work with the space you have & don't forget to include any framing or additions to the sides/ceilings. Enter only the finished inside measurements.

Note: at the MAM frequency of a partition the calculator not be accurate as some absorption occurs and transmission loss is severely curtailed. - The more massive the partition - the more accurate these calculators will be for frequencies below 100Hz.

Cheers,
John
Old 17th December 2010
  #13
Gear Addict
 
RhOdEz's Avatar
 

Beautiful ,i just saw your calculator and it calculates mix position from front wall - that's another variable i forgot ....
thanks a lot !
that alone will help with position of the back wall ,because i need some space behind a desk to be able to go to rec room and toilet which are behind front wall .
I'm playing with First Reflection Calculator too ,some really nice stuff there

i feel much better now

enjoy and thanks again
Old 17th December 2010
  #14
Gear Guru
Isover

The Isover publication was called Party Walls and Solutions.
Pity it's gone it was interesting.
It showed that the insulation between the walls does not need to be dense or rigid.
It also showed that the space is best fully filled but not stuffed or compressed.

DD
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