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Build plans help.
Old 15th December 2010
  #1
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drew's Avatar
Build plans help.

Building a new basement studio. Will do the CR first. I plan to do a room within a room type thing. Here's some pics and Sketchup.

I plan to do 2x4s with pink insulation, 2 layers of 5/8 green glued together and the ceiling will be decoupled as shown in the pic. When I do the lounge and studio in the future, their walls will be the other leaf. I'll do one mini split for the CR and a dual zone mini for the studio and lounge later.

Do the 2x4s need to be glued to the floor as well as using the PAT?

Any issues with this plan?

Thanks in advance.
Attached Thumbnails
Build plans help.-future-studio.jpg   Build plans help.-future-lounge.jpg   Build plans help.-booth2.jpg   Build plans help.-booth.jpg   Build plans help.-facing-cr-booth.jpg  

Build plans help.-ceilingjoists.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: skp V3-2nd.skp (834.3 KB, 83 views)
Old 15th December 2010
  #2
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Drew,

Are you sure you need Green Glue?
---How much transmission loss do you need?

The ceiling design you have shown is very good as long as the instructions are followed and nothing touches the floor joists above. This can provide STC ratings into the mid - upper 60s and maybe more depending on materials and techniques.

It all comes back to the question; How much isolation do you need?
Honestly, this is the first question to be asked by anyone considering building a sound studio.

What is the volume of the control room? hint: it should be at least 1500 cubic feet.

Cheers,
John
Old 15th December 2010
  #3
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drew's Avatar
John,
Thanks for chiming in.

I had read that GG helped TL go down further in freg for walls since it added rigidity? I am aiming for a little bit better than my current room shown in the attached pic. The pic was taken before I added a second layer, RC1 and then another layer. I realize now that wasn't needed after reading Rod's book, that extra layer probably did nothing.

I am fortunate that the joint cavities have little to no mechanicals in them. I am hoping to get good isolation without losing very much ceiling height. I plan to do the same double layer of drywall on the ceiling. I will be sure nothing touches.

The CR will be approx 23ftx14ft with 7'10" ceilings. I will of course monitor down the long dimension of the room.

Thanks for any insight you might be able to give.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
Drew,

Are you sure you need Green Glue?
---How much transmission loss do you need?

The ceiling design you have shown is very good as long as the instructions are followed and nothing touches the floor joists above. This can provide STC ratings into the mid - upper 60s and maybe more depending on materials and techniques.

It all comes back to the question; How much isolation do you need?
Honestly, this is the first question to be asked by anyone considering building a sound studio.

What is the volume of the control room? hint: it should be at least 1500 cubic feet.

Cheers,
John
Attached Thumbnails
Build plans help.-oldwall.jpg  
Old 17th December 2010
  #4
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drew's Avatar
Previously, I would use Georgia Pacific's Acoustical Sealant to seal the 2x4s to the floor along with the PAT nail. Wondering if I should use GG here instead?
Old 17th December 2010
  #5
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Drew,
The Acoustical sealant will do well for the floor plates.

Green glue is not glue nor is it a sealant. GG creates constrained layer damping between sheets of drywall - It should only be used for this purpose.

Cheers,
John
Old 18th December 2010
  #6
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drew's Avatar
Cool, so otherwise seems like a good plan?
Old 18th December 2010
  #7
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Drew,

You would be better off with the CR dimensions of Length = 223" by Width = 165.88" by Height = 96". This will present you with much better modal distribution and a good volume of 2055 cubic feet.

how much isolation do you need???? This is very important. - especially if you are interested in saving money & time.

Cheers,
John
Old 18th December 2010
  #8
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
Drew,

You would be better off with the CR dimensions of Length = 223" by Width = 165.88" by Height = 96". This will present you with much better modal distribution and a good volume of 2055 cubic feet.

how much isolation do you need???? This is very important. - especially if you are interested in saving money & time.

Cheers,
John
John,
What's an easy way of determining what my current isolation is? That way I could gauge what I am looking for?

Is is simply a matter of measuring a drum hit or some other sound once in the room its in and then again on the other side of your partition?

Also, I'm hesitant to artificially make the CR smaller for fear of it feeling closed in. These days, there's lots of people in there with me all the time!!!

Drew
Old 18th December 2010
  #9
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Drew,

A starter pistol is capable of producing the high spl desired. Use a microphone capable of >120 decibels and measure 1 meter from the pistol in the room under test. Simultaneously using other microphones in the neighboring rooms & outside the building. You can get a relative measure of the transmission loss as it stands now. You will want to calibrate the loudness of the shot for a reference level. You can use your DAW for this.

Measure ambient noise levels and compare to the reference. The difference is the STL you will need to match.

Cheers,
John
Old 19th December 2010
  #10
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gullfo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
A starter pistol is capable of producing the high spl desired.
and since you live in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Maryland you might want to notify folks in the vicinity of the test to avoid a visit from the public safety officials or their SWAT team... stike
Old 20th December 2010
  #11
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drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gullfo View Post
and since you live in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Maryland you might want to notify folks in the vicinity of the test to avoid a visit from the public safety officials or their SWAT team... stike
Nice!!!

So this is the way this is done? really?
Old 20th December 2010
  #12
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Drew,

It's one way to do it. The starter pistol will produce a good broadband pulse that is usable in these kinds of measurements.

OR you could call a local acoustics testing firm to do it for you. They will measure and obtain reference levels in your home and the surrounding area and give you a report from which you can determine the type of partition you will need to build.

Cheers,
John
Old 21st December 2010
  #13
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drew's Avatar
And as far as losing space in a room in exchange for making the room modes better, how common is that? Is it really worth losing the space?? Seems crazy to leave dead space like that.
Old 21st December 2010
  #14
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depends on how much space you have. if it's enough, it's common to use it for storage closets, if it's only a foot or so, then you just get more isolation air gap... but it is pretty common to chose to lose a small amount of space to get the right room ratio. not everyone has that option.
Old 24th December 2010
  #15
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
And as far as losing space in a room in exchange for making the room modes better, how common is that? Is it really worth losing the space?? Seems crazy to leave dead space like that.
It depends. It is very much worth it if your current layout produces modal issues. - And remember, more air gap- more isolation - You get to kill two birds with one stone.
Cheers,
John
Old 24th December 2010
  #16
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
And as far as losing space in a room in exchange for making the room modes better, how common is that? Is it really worth losing the space?? Seems crazy to leave dead space like that.
How good is a spacious lousy sounding room?

Andre
Old 15th January 2011
  #17
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drew's Avatar
Ok guys, I'm moved in and need to get this finalized.

I've mapped out where pipes and wires etc are and have determined that my finished width will be 13ft and finished ceiling height will be 7'8" after doing the interleaved joists and double 5/8. So that leaves the length of the room. John has previously suggested 223" but with these updated dimensions, how do I figure out the length of the room? I'm guessing it'll only change by a few inches?

Thanks.
Old 17th January 2011
  #18
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jhbrandt's Avatar
Drew,

If your finished dimensions are Length = 223", by Width = 156", by Height = 92" you will have 1852 cubic feet. See attached Bonello distribution graph.

So 223" still works great. Go to my publications page and get the Room Mode calculator and try some other dimensions. You have to not only be aware of the distribution but also be on the lookout for double incidences and near doubles. - You will have some near incidences at 91Hz, 117Hz, & 126Hz - but they are oblique and tangential - and as such are much reduced in level.

Cheers,
John
Attached Thumbnails
Build plans help.-bonello.jpg  
Old 18th January 2011
  #19
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Great, thanks John!!

I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.
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