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building home studio advice needed
Old 7th May 2010
  #181
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very good.
Old 9th May 2010
  #182
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hi john

i have started taking measurements. i have emailed rew measurement files to your address. please check it if i have done it right or not. i have measured the particular dimension without changing the other two dimensions
Old 9th May 2010
  #183
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received file.

can you upload some screen shots here so we can all see?

don't have rew on this machine, so I can't open the file
Old 9th May 2010
  #184
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uploading

length 1
building home studio advice needed-length-1spectrum.jpg building home studio advice needed-length-1waterfall.jpg

length 2
building home studio advice needed-length-2spectrum.jpg building home studio advice needed-length-2waterfall.jpg

length 3
building home studio advice needed-length-3spectrum.jpg building home studio advice needed-length-3waterfall.jpg

will it work

should i attach other dimensions

i have measured upto 500hz


width 1
building home studio advice needed-width-2-spectrum.jpg building home studio advice needed-height-3.8.jpgheight 1

width 2
building home studio advice needed-width-3-spectrum.jpg building home studio advice needed-height-4.2.jpg height 2

width 3
building home studio advice needed-width-4-spectrum.jpg building home studio advice needed-height-5.4.jpgheight 3 building home studio advice needed-height-6.jpgheight 4
Old 10th May 2010
  #185
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split ac will be on the right side wall.i will make it sure that it will not come under first reflection points.

i have chosen cotton easily breathable cloth for covering the inner frame

are these decisions OK ?
Old 10th May 2010
  #186
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Hi Amit.

AC and fabric should be fine. Why was the ac no longer able to go to the back wall? Just curious.

Also, you should look into a fire ******ant spray treatment for the fabric.

Regarding the measurements, I guess I'm not really surprised that we aren't seeing much decay, even at 30 m/sec... it is after all, a concrete room.

Can you zoom in so the graphs show only 20-500 hz, as well as extend the time out so we can see when it decays out to nothing?

Also, display waterfalls for all sets of measurements, but possibly contain only one dimension per post. I'm having a hard time deciphering what is width and height.

Are you taking measurements at the half and quarter points of the room? And by that, I mean the outer shell.

Glad to see you are up and running with the measurements, we'll get there
Old 10th May 2010
  #187
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If you can, post placement along with the graph...


4' back, 3' up, 2' over type thing... and specify which readings are from middle, quarter...etc.
Old 10th May 2010
  #188
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Quote:
AC and fabric should be fine. Why was the ac no longer able to go to the back wall?
it was a decision taken by the exhaust ducting people. they were having the logic that ac should not be near the exhaust points. otherwise the exhaust will take out all the cooling.

is there something wrong with the ac side wall placement.if yes i will try to rectify that.


regarding measurements i will retake the measurements tonight as i had not written the placement measurements.
ARE THESE MEASUREMENTS LOOKING LOGICAL.
Old 10th May 2010
  #189
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Sorry, one more thing. I wish I was more versed in taking and displaying measurements, so I could tell you how to do this... I've seen graphs where people have had multiple readings on one graph, a different color for each reading. It would help to really see what's going on with all three frequency graphs super imposed on one chart, but have separate waterfall graphs for each.

Hope this isn't too daunting a task.

If the carpenters end up being ready to finish the ceiling and install the insulation before we get these graphs, it's not the end of the world.

After a bit of research, I'm about 50/50 sure that our slat/slot ratio is going to make much difference in the long run. It seems what we have here is simple broadband traps, and the slat mounting will really only be for bringing high frequency life back into the space. That's not to say that I don't at least want to attempt to hit the math right... I don't think it will hinder the effectiveness of the broadband trapping, I guess I'm just saying be prepared for it not to make an improvement in the low end beyond what we see when insulation is in place.

What I would like to do, when slat installation starts, is focus on one mode. Find the areas where that frequency is strongest, and apply slats in those areas. Take another measurement. If the slats contribute to the performance, great... we'll continue with math. If they don't improve, then we focus on aesthetics for the rest of the installation, paying attention to what is happening in the high end of the spectrum.

If by chance, when we install slats in attempt to hit a frequency, that the measurement actually shows we made it worse, we may have to remove the slats and re install them with more space between them. This is why I want to stress taking it slow particularly when we first start mounting slats. Slot widths tuned to low frequencies are very narrow. Great if it works correctly, bad if it doesn't. If it doesn't we simply devise a pattern that doesn't inhibit the performance of the rockwool.


Hang in there buddy. I can't imagine how stressful this must be on your end. I am confident you will be happy in the end.

-John
Old 10th May 2010
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
it was a decision taken by the exhaust ducting people. they were having the logic that ac should not be near the exhaust points. otherwise the exhaust will take out all the cooling.

is there something wrong with the ac side wall placement.if yes i will try to rectify that.


regarding measurements i will retake the measurements tonight as i had not written the placement measurements.
ARE THESE MEASUREMENTS LOOKING LOGICAL.
No, ac placement is fine, and makes perfect sense.

The measurements are not surprising in that it is a concrete room, and I suspected the decay would be huge. It is a bit "huger" than I expected... It's really hard for me to gather much from what I see, based on it not being in the format described in my last post.



IF ANYONE ELSE READING ALONG SEES SOMETHING IN THE MEASUREMENTS THAT CAN BE IMPROVED UPON IN THE RETAKE, PLEASE SPEAK UP.

I am admittedly not versed in carrying out the process, though I am comfortable that I have read through enough waterfall threads to make sense of them when done correctly.
Old 11th May 2010
  #191
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hi john

carpenters have nearly finished with the ceiling. i had taken measurements before which i will post tomorrow.

as slat material in particular sizes is not available here, we have to cut the slats from raw timbre (wooden sleepers 10x5x5). so can you tell about the sizes of slats. what dimensions they will be. will they be vertical or horizontal or in a different order. are these considerations dependent on the measurements or you have already decided.
Old 11th May 2010
  #192
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Hi Amit.

as you know, the spacing of wood to fabric, as well as the depth of the wood, determines the effectiveness of the tuning. having said that, i've played around a bit with the calculator, if you were to have 3/4"x4" boards, I'm comfortable that we would be able to hit as low as 30hz, with a very narrow gap.

this is assuming that the slats increase bass effectiveness... if they do not, then I am still comfortable we can achieve a great looking pattern with 3/4" x 4" boards that don't inhibit the broadband performance of the insulation. for the sake of aesthetics, you could likely have them rip (cut in half on a table saw) some of the 4" wide boards down to 2"... making two boards, so we can vary the visual impact of the slats.
Old 11th May 2010
  #193
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they will run horizontal, or diagonally, which ever look you prefer.
Old 11th May 2010
  #194
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Quote:
they will run horizontal, or diagonally, which ever look you prefer.
vertical also

Quote:
3/4"x4" boards
4" is width , 3/4" is thickness and length according to the frame. is it ok.


should i finally proceed with these sizes. i have to order the timber.
Old 11th May 2010
  #195
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we have to leave the first reflection points on side walls and ceiling without the slats.

will a size of 2'x4' spacing without slats is ok for these points.

can there be some benefit leaving all the inner shell corners(6 corners) without slats. that is only cloth covering.
Old 11th May 2010
  #196
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because of depth perception, vertical slats often end up looking weird, but what ever floats your boat. that's to say, yes, you can do some vertical.

3/4" x 4" in various lengths will be good.

here's the deal with the corners. if it turns out that slat covering does benefit the bass response, then we are going to definately want to cover them with slats, as these are the crucial bass regions. If they don't make an improvement, then I suppose they could be left blank.

A crucial step in determining if the slats improve bass response: we will want to run the measurements with insulation in place, and read the magnitude of the particular mode we are attempting to "cure" with slats. It is crucial to take measurements after slats in the exact same locations. Dan dan suggest a small weight tied to a string on the mic stand, with the weight just barely touching the floor. Mark that spot with a piece of tape and label it. This way, with naked insulation and slats, we can measure the difference and determine if we should continue installing slats in a mathematical fashion, or just on aesthetics.

I would leave the entire front of the walls and ceiling around reflection points slatless. While they may not all be first reflections, particularly behind the speakers, they may impart some imaging related bounces that could be destructive. I would just cover over the staples on the studs with a strip of trim wood and leave it all fabric up there... with the exception of maybe the bottom 2' or so of the walls, so the fabric doesn't get ruined as easily.
Old 11th May 2010
  #197
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if possible and if you have time can u send me a skp file with the final plans. i will be more confident. my carpenters too.
Old 11th May 2010
  #198
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Hi Amit.

The visualization in post #22 is still relatively valid. The thing is, the slat spacing is determined by what we find in the acoustic measurements. I would still recommend leaving the back wall without slats, though the built in diffusor won't work, as I was unclear as to the door's placement at that time.

I would hate to draw a room and have that rendering's slat to fabric ratio taken as final, as we aren't quite ready for that.

In terms of the ceiling treatments, I would like to see a photo of where the light fixtures are mounted before we go on that surface as well.

In terms of amount of wood to order, consider the back 2/3 of the walls of coverage, a perimeter around the ceiling of about 2', ...

know what, give me a day for a proper estimate.

Also, in seeing your post tomorrow with the measurements will help me to devise a basic plan of attack.
Old 12th May 2010
  #199
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hi john

due to large number of files i have posted the measurement pictures to your email address. please check it.
Old 12th May 2010
  #200
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hi john,

horizontal placement of studs will be fine. will the horizontal placement be angled as inner frame
Old 12th May 2010
  #201
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Amit

I have no way of viewing .rar files here.
Old 12th May 2010
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
hi john,

horizontal placement of studs will be fine. will the horizontal placement be angled as inner frame
it's really up to you, as this is a visual thing. the slats will either sharpen at the ceiling if they are horizontal, or at the floor if they are 5 degrees with ceiling.

Personally, I would do something diagonal like the original rendering, but I can draw any format you would like in order to see what it will look like.
Old 12th May 2010
  #203
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I would download rew, but I am not set up on this machine as an administrator.
Old 12th May 2010
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Amit

I have no way of viewing .rar files here.

i have posted files not in rew format. they are just picture files. please uncompress the posted file with winrar
Old 12th May 2010
  #205
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hmmmm

still trying
Old 12th May 2010
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
hmmmm

still trying
is the file corrupted. should i send it again. do you have winrar installed.
Old 12th May 2010
  #207
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on a mac here...this may be the problem
Old 12th May 2010
  #208
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attempting to get winrar for mac
Old 12th May 2010
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
attempting to get winrar for mac
ok you are working on mac. sorry i did not knew that. i am on my working place. i will be going home in about 15 minutes. i will post you the folder in winzip format within a few minutes. i have all my data on my personal computer at home.
Old 12th May 2010
  #210
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right on
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