The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
building home studio advice needed
Old 18th April 2010
  #151
Lives for gear
fine.
Old 19th April 2010
  #152
Lives for gear
hi john,

some pics

building home studio advice needed-100_0057.jpg building home studio advice needed-100_0051.jpg building home studio advice needed-100_0054.jpg
Old 19th April 2010
  #153
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

looks like re-claimed lumber. good for you!
Old 21st April 2010
  #154
Lives for gear
hi john

just a casual wish.

carpenter will start work with in 2-3 days.
Old 26th April 2010
  #155
Lives for gear
hi john

the work has been started

some pics
building home studio advice needed-wood-fine-tunning.jpg
wood editing (in our language)

building home studio advice needed-front-wall-plastic-sheet.jpg building home studio advice needed-rear-wall-plastic-sheet.jpg
front and side walls plastic sheet ( water risk coverage)


building home studio advice needed-ducting-outlets.jpg
ducting outlets on rear wall
Old 27th April 2010
  #156
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

awesome!

the wood editing strikes me as odd, as this is not a general need here. Our wood is purchased to dimension.

I'm hoping this isn't being done only to bring lumber to western dimension tolerances, as that would not be necessary.
Old 27th April 2010
  #157
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
awesome!

the wood editing strikes me as odd, as this is not a general need here. Our wood is purchased to dimension.

I'm hoping this isn't being done only to bring lumber to western dimension tolerances, as that would not be necessary.

in india wood comes in sleepers(raw wood from trees). the common sleeper size is length 10 feet , width 10 inches and thickness is 5 inches. the timber merchants cut this sleeper into our desired sizes in first step. in next step the wood is smoothened( fine tuned ) by carpenters while working. this is a common practice here.
Old 27th April 2010
  #158
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

cool,

learn something new everyday.

i was concerned that your 2x4's are actually "2x4", and you were having them shave them down to "1.5x3.5"
Old 27th April 2010
  #159
Lives for gear
hi john

boundry wall framing will be completed by tomorrow. i will post some updated pics tomorrow.

i have enquired about the r-19 specifications. many of the insulation merchants were not aware of this but from 2-3 merchants i had the conclusion that in order to achieve r 19 value we must layer 3 layers of fibre glass in 48 kg density and 50mm. total thickness then would be 6".

i have purchased the boundary wall insulation (rockwool 96kg density) but regarding the exterior inner shell insulation i am still not able to decide. i have a few questions in mind


1. how much insulation will be needed. only between the inner shell cavities or we have to cover every space behind the inner shell.

2. can we use rockwool instead of fibre glass as rockwool is much cheaper than fibre glass.
Old 27th April 2010
  #160
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

Hi Amit.

You are going to want to fill the entire cavity between boundary and inner shell with insulation.

This is the product I am thinking of:

PINK FIBERGLAS® Insulation R19

It's standard thermal wall insulation. You may be running into difficulty finding it for two reasons:

- it's typically not for sound, and this may be confusing for those who you are asking.

- your climate is warm, and this type of insulation may not be typical in your area.

Rockwool is fine, but possibly too dense to be ideal to the depth we would be using. The thicker the trap, the less dense the insulation should be.

In terms of SOUND insulation, rockwool is more affordable than fiberglass here as well, but in terms of the difference between rockwool and THERMAL fiberglass insulation, fiberglass is cheaper.
Old 28th April 2010
  #161
Lives for gear
some updated pics
THANKS JOHN

building home studio advice needed-front-wall-side-wall-frame.jpg

building home studio advice needed-frame-1.jpg

building home studio advice needed-frame-2.jpg



THE FRAMING IS TILL UNCOMPLETED.

pink fiber glass r 19 insulation is not available here. i even made contact with owens corning company which is located in another city .they informed that this product is available in us but not in india. they were asking for nrc value. as carpenters are going speedily i have to arrange insulation by tomorrow.

so what should be opt for fiber glass or rock wool and what density 16kg , 24 kg, 48kg or 96 kg. thickness is clear as we have to fill all the gap between boundary wall and inner shell.

SECONDLY i think carpenters will do all the framing work including inner shell framing with in 1-2 days. so what will be our next step. DESK CONSTRUCTION OR MEASUREMENTS.
Old 28th April 2010
  #162
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

Looking great AMit!


96 density rockwool behind and in boundary wall.

(make sure all gaps around perimeter of boundary wall are sealed with caulk, or expanding foam)

16 or 24 density rockwool for inner shell... let me research that.

(make sure your hvac openings in the concrete will line up into the inner shell wall)

next step...

place and locate your electrical in inner shell walls.

install door in concrete opening... no door is needed in the inner shell

run some audio measurements of finished inner shell, so we can determine what to do next.

I would set up a temporary desk at the front of the room. You may (after running tests) determine that you actually want to sit a bit further back than a desk on the pedestal may allow. If this is the case, we can work on a speaker stand design out of the remaining pedestal.

Have you practiced with any room measurements yet?

What are you thinking for lighting? Do you want fixtures on the ceiling, or are you planning on plug in lamps only?
Old 28th April 2010
  #163
Lives for gear
Quote:
Looking great AMit!
its your design and efforts. THANKS

Quote:
(make sure your hvac openings in the concrete will line up into the inner shell wall)
Quote:
place and locate your electrical in inner shell walls
carpenters are prepared for this

Quote:
install door in concrete opening... no door is needed in the inner shell
FINE. also good point at this time to make them regular working.

Quote:
run some audio measurements of finished inner shell, so we can determine what to do next.
my shipment is expected tomorrow(galaxy 140 and some cables for hardware).
do we have to take measurements before inserting insulation between boundary wall and inner shell

Quote:
I would set up a temporary desk at the front of the room. You may (after running tests) determine that you actually want to sit a bit further back than a desk on the pedestal may allow. If this is the case, we can work on a speaker stand design out of the remaining pedestal.
do i have to make temporary desk also to keep speakers for measurements

Quote:
Have you practiced with any room measurements yet?
galaxy 140 on the way. trying to be familiar with REW

Quote:
What are you thinking for lighting? Do you want fixtures on the ceiling, or are you planning on plug in lamps only?
just 2 fixtures on the ceiling on the rear wall side and except that 4 tube lights.
Old 29th April 2010
  #164
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
do we have to take measurements before inserting insulation between boundary wall and inner shell
not necessary. i suggested it earlier so we can appreciate the full effect of what will and can be done. if you have the time great, if not, that's fine too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
do i have to make temporary desk also to keep speakers for measurements
i don't understand.

you are going to want to take a LOT of measurements, with the speakers and microphone in various places. speaker stands would be good for this, or any solid movable object.
Old 29th April 2010
  #165
Lives for gear
hi john

have you researched for the rock wool or fiber glass and density.

i don't know why but i am not feeling comfortable asking you this. if anytime during our conversations by mistake you are or will be hurt, please excuse me for that.
Old 29th April 2010
  #166
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

No reason to be uncomfortable Amit. You have decided to put a lot of faith in me, and I understand. I wouldn't have done what I have so far if I wasn't prepared to see it through.

What we are looking for is a mks rayls/m rating. Based on info available at Roxul, (where I get my rockwool):

http://www.roxul.com/files/RX-NA-EN/...hure_Mar24.pdf

a 44kg. density has a rayls value of 16,600.

what we are looking for is a rayls value of around 5,000.

now, on the same data sheet, they list a fiberglass competitor's product of 12kg at rayls 4,800.


This leads me to the conclusion that we should be looking at the 16kg... though I wonder if your provider has rayls (gas flow resistance) measurements for their product. If they do, great. Get the density closest to 5000 rayls. If they don't, order the 16kg...

If we are shooting in the dark with out documented rayls values, if it were me, I would order enough 16kg to fill around the shell at the deeper corners (front half of the room), and 24kg at the back of the room, where the traps are less thick.


Also, I understand English is not your first language. You are doing very well! If at any point I use phrases (slang) that aren't making sense, feel free to ask what I mean.

I will be on house calls today, and unavailable for 8 hours or so, but I will check back as soon as I get home.

-John
Old 29th April 2010
  #167
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

what are "tube lights"?

try to keep the two ceiling fixtures at least a 1' or so from the side and back walls... more if you can... 2' is good too.

I'm guessing a decent percentage of the ceiling at the back of the room will end up drywalled, but if we do want some insulation exposed, either with just fabric or slats, it will be around the perimeter of the room.

does this make sense?
Old 29th April 2010
  #168
Lives for gear
Quote:
This leads me to the conclusion that we should be looking at the 16kg
i will try to get rayls measurements. in case i would not get these measurements then what should i get 16 kg rock wool or fiber glass

Quote:
if we are shooting in the dark with out documented rayls values, if it were me, I would order enough 16kg to fill around the shell at the deeper corners (front half of the room), and 24kg at the back of the room, where the traps are less thick.
i will try to implement this.

Quote:
what are "tube lights"?
tube light
building home studio advice needed-tubelights.jpg cfl building home studio advice needed-cfl.jpg
Old 29th April 2010
  #169
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

rockwool is good.

unless fiberglass is cheaper at that density.
Old 29th April 2010
  #170
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
rockwool is good.

unless fiberglass is cheaper at that density.

ok. i will opt for 16 kg for front half and 24 kg for rear half portion which ever is cheaper and easily available.
Old 29th April 2010
  #171
Lives for gear
boundary wall insulation on the way

the studs cavity insulation is to be done.

building home studio advice needed-insulation.jpg

building home studio advice needed-insulation-1.jpg
Old 30th April 2010
  #172
Lives for gear
PROGRESS REPORT

1. 2-3 days left for complete boundary wall and the inner shell frame.

2. received galaxy cm 140

3. insulation ordered.
Old 30th April 2010
  #173
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

I'm excited for you.
Old 3rd May 2010
  #174
Lives for gear
hi john

i think i will get time to take initial measurements without acoustic treatment as carpenters will not come for 3 days after completing inner shell frame. please tell me what measurement i have to take initially. from mix position or from different positions. just the frequency response measurement or some other measurements. please give me some guidelines and make me ready for the measurements.
Old 3rd May 2010
  #175
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

what we are looking for here is a baseline. what dimensions are causing what modes.

leaving the speaker in the same location, if you move the mic up and down only, you should be see variances in the waterfall plot that will indicate activity in the height mode. center of the height should reveal the least amount of activity, while 1/4 of height either from floor or ceiling should show the most. Don't concern your reading with small differences, as this may be caused by modes other than axial... we are looking for the big swings in activity, and want to know what frequency it/they is/are centered around.

repeat this process in the length and width dimensions. Again, keeping the mic as constant as possible along the two dimensions you are not currently reading, and again keeping in mind that the center of the room in any plane is going to yield the least amount of involvement.

I would compile a list, separated by dimension, and listed by intensity. Time permitting you may be able to do the following with all of these frequencies, however, concern yourself first with the primaries of all dimensions first.

Now we have a list of frequencies to watch for. If there is time still before the room is filled with insulation, you can, using a signal generator, reproduce the frequencies we found in the tests, and using the spl meter, walk around the room, and make note of where these frequencies are the strongest... concerning yourself mainly around the perimeter of the room, as this is where we will be able to do something about it. Using a sketchup file, if you are able to, diagram where in the room particular frequencies are strongest, perhaps using different colors on the walls and defining the colors by frequency... or simply drawing them out on paper.

This last process can and should be done again after insulation is in place, but the readings will be more pronounced and easier in an empty room.


I wouldn't concern myself yet with attempting to locate an exact placement for your listening triangle. For these initial readings, just put the speakers in an approximate logical location, and leave them there, until insulation is in.
Old 3rd May 2010
  #176
Lives for gear
Boundary walls complete

measurements after boundary wall

length = 535cm

width = 394cm


building home studio advice needed-boundary-wall.jpg
Old 4th May 2010
  #177
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
what we are looking for here is a baseline. what dimensions are causing what modes.

leaving the speaker in the same location, if you move the mic up and down only, you should be see variances in the waterfall plot that will indicate activity in the height mode. center of the height should reveal the least amount of activity, while 1/4 of height either from floor or ceiling should show the most. Don't concern your reading with small differences, as this may be caused by modes other than axial... we are looking for the big swings in activity, and want to know what frequency it/they is/are centered around.

repeat this process in the length and width dimensions. Again, keeping the mic as constant as possible along the two dimensions you are not currently reading, and again keeping in mind that the center of the room in any plane is going to yield the least amount of involvement.

I would compile a list, separated by dimension, and listed by intensity. Time permitting you may be able to do the following with all of these frequencies, however, concern yourself first with the primaries of all dimensions first.

Now we have a list of frequencies to watch for. If there is time still before the room is filled with insulation, you can, using a signal generator, reproduce the frequencies we found in the tests, and using the spl meter, walk around the room, and make note of where these frequencies are the strongest... concerning yourself mainly around the perimeter of the room, as this is where we will be able to do something about it. Using a sketchup file, if you are able to, diagram where in the room particular frequencies are strongest, perhaps using different colors on the walls and defining the colors by frequency... or simply drawing them out on paper.

This last process can and should be done again after insulation is in place, but the readings will be more pronounced and easier in an empty room.


I wouldn't concern myself yet with attempting to locate an exact placement for your listening triangle. For these initial readings, just put the speakers in an approximate logical location, and leave them there, until insulation is in.

FINE
Old 7th May 2010
  #178
Lives for gear
inner frame without ceiling

building home studio advice needed-innershell-1.jpg building home studio advice needed-innershell-2.jpg




PREPARING FOR THE MEASUREMENTS
Old 7th May 2010
  #179
Lives for gear
 
johndykstra's Avatar
 

very exciting!

how does the room size feel?
Old 7th May 2010
  #180
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
very exciting!

how does the room size feel?

TECHNICALLY as per your plan

OTHERWISE not small and not too big. very comfortable looking
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
ukmikey / Music Computers
9
sharplikecheddar / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1
Saxtrack / So much gear, so little time
8

Forum Jump
Forum Jump