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building home studio advice needed
Old 13th April 2010
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
The Checkmate will work fine, though I worry about the specified low frequency response. It measures barely below where we expect our lowest modal activity to be
Here's some discussion on the matter : Galaxy CM-140.

It can apparently go down near 5 hz. If you search Home Theater Shack for the Galaxy CM-140
and REW you get piles of related posts.

One advantage of the Galaxy CM-140 is that there's a calibration file available for it when using
REW. There's also one for the ECM-8000. The files can be found here.

Paul P
Old 13th April 2010
  #122
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Thanks Paul
Old 14th April 2010
  #123
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framing "done".

ceiling construction is without stringers, I've never built a ceiling of this size, so the carpenter should have a good idea of requirements. you'll notice at the front of the room's ceiling, I added stringers so there's a nailing surface for slats. probably will want to do something similar at the back of the room, but again, I would construct the shell and insulate it. we can determine at that point what should be slatted, fabric'ed, or drywalled.

my next step is to give an idea of where I think wall treatments should be, including the ceiling. more on that later. sending you the file Amit.
Attached Thumbnails
building home studio advice needed-amit-layers.jpg  
Old 14th April 2010
  #124
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here's the file, in case anyone with some framing experience wishes to rotate/tear it apart.

any input welcome.
Attached Files
File Type: skp amit new.skp (502.3 KB, 171 views)
Old 14th April 2010
  #125
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hi john

thanks. received the file. looking and trying to grasp into it.

do you have the skp file of only the studs construction ( our first step ). i tried to delete the two layers of mdf for seeing the studs but it is a single component. i want to show it to carpenter
Old 14th April 2010
  #126
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i was thinking of wooden flooring. should it be planned before the inner shell (new angled room) or after the framing
Old 14th April 2010
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
hi john

thanks. received the file. looking and trying to grasp into it.

do you have the skp file of only the studs construction ( our first step ). i tried to delete the two layers of mdf for seeing the studs but it is a single component. i want to show it to carpenter
using the arrow tool, click on the wall.

go to "edit" pull down, towards bottom, you will see "component".

a side pull down will appear, click "explode"

this will allow you to erase individual pieces.
Old 14th April 2010
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
i was thinking of wooden flooring. should it be planned before the inner shell (new angled room) or after the framing
much like the 1/2" of ply on the front wall, the few inches of flooring difference is another area I would "corner cut"

ratios are great and all, but at the end of the day, the project needs to make sense, financially among other things. there's going to be a great deal of acoustic treatment built into the walls, and the ratios are good enough... i think.

so, long story short, i would lay down the flooring inside the interior shell only, after construction is complete. don't want to ruin the flooring!!!
Old 14th April 2010
  #129
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after exploding components and deleting mdf layers studs seems very unnatural specially vertical studs.(very thin looking vertical studs). is this a graphic issue only
Old 14th April 2010
  #130
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the gap between the boundary wall studs would be strictly same or it may be altered by carpenter according to needs
Old 14th April 2010
  #131
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yes,

layers of drawing appear to have corrupted the framing.

the wall is a very standard 16" on center 2x4 constructed wall. there are pictures earlier in the thread that show the layers, but remember, the stringers in those renderings are too regular... in reality it should be much more random. area in wall and behind is stuffed with very dense insulation, after electrical and hvac provisions have been made. remember to not allow holes in the concrete wall and holes in this new wall are not directly across from one another, staggering breaches through the two walls will help prevent sound leakage. wall is then covered in two layers of 5/8" mdf, with no two sheets directly on top of one another, in effort to not have seems straight through the wall.

the important factor of the wall's construction, is that it forms a barrier that is the distance to the opposite wall. this can be measured while the component is intact.

make sure carpenter makes the wall as "big" as possible, meaning its mass fills as much of the area to the concrete towards the front and back wall, as well as the ceiling. Any gaps around the perimeter of the wall need to be sealed with caulk, as well as any wiring or hvac that come through it, should be caulked around as well.
Old 14th April 2010
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
the gap between the boundary wall studs would be strictly same or it may be altered by carpenter according to needs
absolutely, what ever he needs to do to make it happen, he's the expert (hopefully ha ha)

this applies to all framing, including the interior shell and especially the ceiling, WITH ONE EXCEPTION.

I very intentionally framed the front and back walls of the inner shell symetrically, so slats will look more attractive, should they be used there. Also, any changes made to the left wall, should be done on the right as well, again for symmetry.

I made an effort to make sure that there is a stud on both edges of interior corners, a place by which to attach material all the way to the corners... this is standard practice for any construction, as you'd need that for drywall too. I may have missed a corner or two, but if I did make sure the carpenter installs these boards.
Old 14th April 2010
  #133
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john i will be at work most of the time during this work. my main assistant would be the skp files which i will give it to carpenter. i donot want him to be confused in any matter. so can u please send me skp file with only clean boundary wall studs.( if possible)
Old 14th April 2010
  #134
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construction photographs in this thread or new thread
Old 14th April 2010
  #135
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here we are, i have to change the file name to re-post...

one minute
Attached Thumbnails
building home studio advice needed-amits-wall.jpg  
Old 14th April 2010
  #136
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i didn't save the file before closing it some how... so the changes are gone. glad i took a screen shot.

you thing this will be enough?

honestly, if this step confuses the carpenter, I'd find a new one.
Old 15th April 2010
  #137
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sho................... sweet.
Old 16th April 2010
  #138
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hi john,

what are we doing for interior shell ceiling. just insulation in frames and fabric downwords or wooden slats.

i have started purchasing materials. monday is our schedule for purchasing hardwood and mdf's.

regarding the boundary wall insulation i have opted for 96 kg density rockwool to increase mass.

which is better for the interior shell frames insulation 48 kg density or 96 kg density.
Old 16th April 2010
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
hi john,

what are we doing for interior shell ceiling. just insulation in frames and fabric downwords or wooden slats.

i have started purchasing materials. monday is our schedule for purchasing hardwood and mdf's.

regarding the boundary wall insulation i have opted for 96 kg density rockwool to increase mass.

which is better for the interior shell frames insulation 48 kg density or 96 kg density.
Hi Amit.

regarding the ceiling: If you'll remember a few posts back, i suggested that we get the inner shell constructed, fill the perimeter with insulation, and run some tests. We could shoot in the dark and guesstimate what we should do, but I think we will be better served to reassess after we reach this step.

Few reasons:

we may need more slats, and at different tuning than we expected.

we may need less slats, because the room is too lively

we may have the bass relatively under control, and decide to save a few dollars and drywall some of it.

any plans we create at this point are blind, and ill-advised.

When you say Monday we are purchasing hardwoods... do you mean 2x4's and 2x6's for framing, or do you mean slat material. Again, I would hold off on slats (hard boards) for now.

The rock wool you have choosen for behind the boundary is perfect. For the acoustic inner shell material, I would suggest R-19, fluffy fiber wall batts... the thick pink stuff.

Here's a great thread to look over that discusses what insulation you should use, based on how thick your absorber will be:

Could someone help out interpreting material's gas flow properties
Old 16th April 2010
  #140
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we are going to purchase only framing material. (no slat material now)
Old 16th April 2010
  #141
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perfect!

take some pictures as you go if you can
Old 16th April 2010
  #142
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products available here

rock wool

density thickness
96kg 80mm
96kg 50mm
48kg 50mm
[all three available in 1m x 0.5m panels]

fibreglass

density thickness
48kg 50mm

[available in roll form , yellow in colour]

suppliers are not aware of r values.
Old 16th April 2010
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
perfect!

take some pictures as you go if you can

definately

my first purchasing was a camera
Old 16th April 2010
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
products available here

rock wool

density thickness
96kg 80mm
96kg 50mm
48kg 50mm
[all three available in 1m x 0.5m panels]

fibreglass

density thickness
48kg 50mm

[available in roll form , yellow in colour]

suppliers are not aware of r values.
inquire on gas flow resistance specifications.
Old 16th April 2010
  #145
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i am thinking of laying 19mm mdf (one layer) to the left side wall also. this increased thickness will be decreased from right side wall so the resulting width will be the same. i want to do it to increase mass to left wall also

our area is prone to electricity failures very frequently. so i donot want to be in the risk of listening generator's vibrations (may be at very very less pressure) from neigbourhood. except generator there is no other risk of noise.

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION JOHN ? SHOULD IT BE DONE OR NOT

another option may be to increase this mass from outside (another side of wall) afterwards if required
Old 16th April 2010
  #146
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definately do not decrease layer from right side. this mass is needed.

a single layer of mdf on the left wall is not going to amount to much of an isolation increase. In order to obtain this, we would need a second wall, completely decoupled from the cement one... meaning an air gap between two walls.

so the generators are on the other side of this (left) wall? are they exterior or interior?

i will admit I know even less about isolation than I do inner room acoustics.
Old 16th April 2010
  #147
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also, we have a solid concrete construction correct? even if we added a second wall to attempt to eliminate noise, there is still likely an incredible amount of structure born vibration, that will carry through floor and ceiling as well. If a cement wall is a weal link, it's likely that the cement floor and cement ceiling are just as weak. does that make sense?

this tells me that in order to effectively eliminate this noise/vibration, we would need to construct a complete floating room. This would be terribly expensive.
Old 16th April 2010
  #148
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they are exterior far away from our house. i was just trying to cover any risks.

anyways i think isolation issue should not bother me as our area is very peaceful and live recording will not be done here. so i think left wall would be as our current plan that is to keep it plain.
Old 17th April 2010
  #149
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can a stud size 3.5"x1.5" be 3.3"x1.5". i mean to say will a very little difference in stud's size makes difference

do we have to treat all real corners(boundary wall) of the room or the corners of inner shell.

as you have given the final sketch of room in post 22, super chunks are in front wall corners inner shell. can these superchunks installed outside the interior shell that is on boundary front wall corners. i was thinking so as practically there will be no real corners in the interior shell (just guess). corners acts as corners when there are hard surfaces adjoining each other. as regarding the rear wall superchunks there is no space left outside the interior shell.
Old 18th April 2010
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
can a stud size 3.5"x1.5" be 3.3"x1.5". i mean to say will a very little difference in stud's size makes difference
this is fine, so long as the finish layer of the boundary wall is the correct distance to the left wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
do we have to treat all real corners(boundary wall) of the room or the corners of inner shell.

as you have given the final sketch of room in post 22, super chunks are in front wall corners inner shell. can these superchunks installed outside the interior shell that is on boundary front wall corners. i was thinking so as practically there will be no real corners in the interior shell (just guess). corners acts as corners when there are hard surfaces adjoining each other. as regarding the rear wall superchunks there is no space left outside the interior shell.
post 22 was a long time ago. the new file's inner shell construction allow for much more trapping at the front and back of the room. You'll notice that the rear wall, along with having a 1' worth of trapable space behind it, also has the corners truncated, so as to allow corner traps in the back of the room.

in post 22, the super chunks at the front of the room may have been overkill. this is something to be decided as measurements dictate.
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