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building home studio advice needed
Old 21st May 2010
  #271
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Incredible.

Watching this project unfold is a bit surreal for me.

If you don't mind my asking, how much has the project cost you so far?
Old 21st May 2010
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
the diagonal slats on the walls are showing 1/2" gap.
oh yeah... well, again, this is just an estimation
Old 21st May 2010
  #273
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Quote:
If you don't mind my asking, how much has the project cost you so far?
i respect you for your questions.
emailed
Old 21st May 2010
  #274
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Amit,

Installing the fabric makes adding the stringers where slats meet (boards I drew in blue color a few post back) impossible. Slicing through the cheaper cotton under fabric is not a big deal, but we need those boards installed if the slat designs are to work.

There will be more of these stringers needed in the side walls as well, unless we simplify the design
Old 21st May 2010
  #275
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Here's a rendering of side boards needed to be added... but this is specifications based on slat spacing without math considerations. We are running into a moving faster than we should point.
Attached Thumbnails
building home studio advice needed-amit-side-support.jpg  
Old 21st May 2010
  #276
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yes. the installation of stringers seems difficult. before simplifying the design i will talk to the carpenters in the morning. what can they do to remedy this.
Old 21st May 2010
  #277
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if we see all the top corners the slat installation is in the sequence

slat --> slot --> slat

can there be some benefit if we do

slot --> slat --> slot
Old 21st May 2010
  #278
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i was seeing the file carefully. i think the problem will not come.

inner frame stringers are not installed in the file but actually they are installed. on side walls frame, on front and rear frame and on ceiling frame. and i think they all will come under the slats and thus nailed. in a very previous post you had told me to keep some stringers in the inner frame.
Old 21st May 2010
  #279
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It has occurred to me, that the wood to support the butt end of slats need not be of 2x4" thickness.

building home studio advice needed-amit-cleat.jpg

This is an angle from inside the wall. After the red slat is installed, we can attach the blue board...this would be called a "cleat". This would just be scrap wood from the slats. Because this board is only 3/4" thick, you should be able to tuck it between the fabric and the red slat. Perhaps some wood glue, and a couple of diagonally driven finish nails, and this ledge behind the end of the butt end slats should provide ample support.

In installing the cleats, there may be some tearing of the fabric, but I think it should be minimal.

Now, from inside the room, the space between the slats where there is usually fabric, there's going to be some wood (the cleat) visible. You can use scraps of fabric to cover the face of the cleat.

Supporting the but ends of slats in this manner allows us the flexibility to design the pattern any way we choose without being nailed down to a lay out yet.
Old 21st May 2010
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit monga View Post
i was seeing the file carefully. i think the problem will not come.

inner frame stringers are not installed in the file but actually they are installed. on side walls frame, on front and rear frame and on ceiling frame. and i think they all will come under the slats and thus nailed. in a very previous post you had told me to keep some stringers in the inner frame.
yes, i don't doubt that some of the randomly placed stringers will fall into the areas in which support is required, but certainly not in every location...that would be incredible... but it is very doubtful
Old 22nd May 2010
  #281
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hi john

can a carpet like design fabric be pasted on the mdf sheet on the ceiling as in the skp file

i have drawn the exactly measured exhaust inlet and outlet points on the rear wall.

amit single light(2)suggestion.skp

please adjust with my bad drawing.
Old 23rd May 2010
  #282
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Hi Amit,

Certainly, you can stick a fabric to the mdf. I would use a thinner sheet of mdf... say 5/8", this way the fabric panel will have a recessed look in the slats.

I will re draw the vent placing tomorrow.
Old 24th May 2010
  #283
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hi john,

sorry for the delay in work. the carpenters are not coming from the last 3 days. one side wall cloth coverage is left. only after that i want to take measurements. if carpenters did not come by tomorrow i will take measurements of the room in current position. ( insulation is already in place)
Old 25th May 2010
  #284
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hi john,

measurements taken. I have posted the pictures to your email account.
Old 25th May 2010
  #285
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working on a post, this may take some time...bare with me.
Old 25th May 2010
  #286
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Is the door installed yet?
Old 25th May 2010
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Is the door installed yet?
no

but every time before taking measurements i had covered the door area with door(without permanent attachment).

in today's measurements a very very small gap was left after covering the door's area.
Old 25th May 2010
  #288
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hi john,

you may be going to take major decisions at this stage. so i must keep you upto date with the progress.

I haven't purchased the wood for slats yet.
Old 25th May 2010
  #289
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Here is the testing set up. You can see on the floor, the markers at which each distance from the front wall was taken
building home studio advice needed-setup-view-1.jpg

Here are the response graphs. As you can see, the further back in the room we go, the more extreme and rising in pitch the mid 100hz null gets.
building home studio advice needed-listening-position-measurements-view-1.jpg

The next two images are the 3' 5" water fall (best mid 100hz response), as well as what that listening triangle might look like. Clearly, the response would change a bit moving the speakers, but again, we are at the infancy of this process.
building home studio advice needed-waterfall-3_5.jpg

It is of my opinion, that while the null may be better at this distance, this listening position looks rather uncomfortable to me. Simply too close to the monitors at this point.
building home studio advice needed-listening3foot.jpg

These next two images represent 4' 6" listening position. Sure the null is a bit worse at this distance, but we are at a far more comfortable listening distance to the monitors.
building home studio advice needed-waterfall-4_6.jpg

Also notice Amit, that in these renderings the speakers are raised substantially from the concrete cube. Your monitors wouldn't be so low. Pull a chair in, and try to get the space between the tweeter and the woofer to be your ear level. In this 4' 6" distance from the inner wall, the speakers are nearly touching the front wall. I will post measurements for you shortly.

Regardless of listening position, it's clear we need to locate the highest point of intensity of the 50hz ringing. Also, I wonder if there is interference (HVAC?) with the long thin spikes at 150, 250, 350, 450... those look odd.

It is good you have not ordered the slats yet. In order to hit 50hz, we may need some wider than 4"... plus this step we are currently undertaking may take us some time. After our listening position is nailed down, and we can intelligently look at wall locations for tuning, we will have a far more accurate estimation of wood needed.
building home studio advice needed-listening4.5foot.jpg
Old 25th May 2010
  #290
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Here are the distances to walls for the speakers in the initial set-up. Keep in mind the distance from the floor assumes an Event monitor. Your Roland may be different in reality.

building home studio advice needed-speaker-measures.jpg


I'm hoping you've taken some time to listen to music in the space. What are your initial reactions to the room so far?
Old 25th May 2010
  #291
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Amit, when measuring the new listening position, if new anomolies in the response show up, feel free to immediately take the time to move the speakers a little (up/down, left/right, forward/backward) in order to see if these movements can change the response favorably. A 60 degree equal laterial triangle is the starting point. If tweaking this can make improvements in response, then great.
Old 25th May 2010
  #292
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Also, if you can, after you are happy with speaker placement, and have gotten the best response you can at 4' 6", could you compose a graph with that response and your 4' 6" graph you already have? I'd be interested to compare the two.
Old 25th May 2010
  #293
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thanks john for everything.

Quote:
I'm hoping you've taken some time to listen to music in the space. What are your initial reactions to the room so far?
everything good. good imaging, tight bass response. i felt like tweaking my already done mixings. lets hope for the best.

Quote:
Also, if you can, after you are happy with speaker placement, and have gotten the best response you can at 4' 6", could you compose a graph with that response and your 4' 6" graph you already have? I'd be interested to compare the two.
Sure . i will love to.
Old 26th May 2010
  #294
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hi john

i was just seeing the pictures i had posted to you. i noticed that i had taken the full range pictures but had posted only upto 500 hz. so these are 2 dimensions measurements of full range. these may be helpful.

building home studio advice needed-full-range.jpg


working on listening position measurements

i think john as we move back in the room, null increases for every frequency
Old 26th May 2010
  #295
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that measurement, is it taken with both speakers?
Old 26th May 2010
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
that measurement, is it taken with both speakers?
yes
Old 26th May 2010
  #297
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hi john
the spl's meter position being the same that is 4'6" here are the results

1. 1st measurement is taken as per equilateral triangle 1'3" from side wall and 5.5" from front wall.

building home studio advice needed-1.jpg

2. 2nd measurement is taken 1'9" from side wall and 7" from front wall ( moved towards each other)

building home studio advice needed-3.jpg

3. 3rd measurement is taken 1'3" from side wall and 1'3" from front wall ( moved forward)

building home studio advice needed-2.jpg

4. 4th measurement is taken 1' 11" from side wall and 1'3" from front wall ( moved forward and towards each other)

building home studio advice needed-4.jpg

5. comparison of all these

building home studio advice needed-5.jpg

my views or questions.
1. as listener or the mic gets close to the speakers the respose gets better. can this be due to some problem in speakers response.
2. can we take average of all this(measurement 3) and make table like speaker stands which we can position or fine tune at later stage.
3. also we can make the stands 1 or 2" short in length as i think response will get better (compared to tommorow's measurements.) then ears will be at level between tweeters and woofer.
Old 26th May 2010
  #298
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waterfall for 3rd measurement.

building home studio advice needed-waterfall-13-13.jpg


generally waterfalls are same for all measurments ringing at 50 hz.


COMPARISON WITH YESTERDAY'S MEASURMENT
if we compare tomorrow's measurement 4'6" from front wall, speakers down with 4'6" from front wall and speakers at ear level and 1'3" from side and front wall

building home studio advice needed-comparison.jpg
Old 26th May 2010
  #299
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Hi Amit.

These minute adjustments we are currently making to listening position is in order to give us guide lines. For example, we now know that speakers nearly directly touching the front wall is not a good thing.

It seems as though moving the speakers up to ear level has created a bit of a null around 350... may need to play with height.

I think we have enough info to start with some actual slat placement and measurements.

What I would like you to do at this point, is using the spl meter on it's own, (no rew), generate a few frequencies from your computer, and walk around the rooms perimeter and figure out where these frequencies are loudest:

50hz
150hz
200hz
350hz

At that point, if you can in sketchup, put some colored circles on the walls to show me where particular frequencies seem to be ringing loudest.
Old 26th May 2010
  #300
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comparing waterfall from previous measurements, to today's new position, the little "foothills" in the 60hz-150hz seem to have cleaned up quite a bit.

Also, there's fewer of the razor thin little spikes that were so troublesome last time. Is there any ambient noise in the room with the speakers off? Still wondering where these are coming from.
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