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Measuring Room Acoustics
Old 29th November 2017
  #211
Lives for gear
 

Calibration of Beyerdyamic MM1

Hi,

First of all, thank you for the great sticky pages, and comments, you have here - this is my first question in this section, but I´ve been a regular reader of this part of the GS, too, as a relative long time member of the GS.

I moved to a bigger house some time ago, and got my own work room there. I´ve got the regular basic treatments done in the room, and now in the first time, consider measuring the frequency response of the treated room. One reason for this is, that I´m slightly dissatisfied for the feeling (!), that the lower mid range is emphasized in the room.

Now, to get some real facts, I will measure the room by using the help of REW, and now ordering a measurement microphone, which is Beyerdyamic MM1.

When glancing through the sites looking for reviews or comments of this mic, I happend to notice a discourse, for few years back, focusing on the calibration of the measument mics, and particulary this mic.
Calibration of Beyerdyamic MM1 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

There are no clear end result of this conversation, and after reading this section concerning the mic calibration in this GS sticky guide, I´d like to get comments to the following questions:

1. Is the mic calibration just more or less useless fine tuning in the environmet, where there are even bigger uncontrollable sources of errors?

2. The MM1 comes with a individual mic response graph - isn´t it enough, that I just take in to consideration that curve, i.e. the deviation of that individual mic to the absolutely flat response, when drawing the conclusions after the room measurement?. E.g. if there is a notch in mic curve in 1 kHz, I know that a similar notch in the REW results depend (partly) for the mic error?
Is there really any need for the mic calibration, in this type of measurement?

3. However, is the MM1 calibration is recommended by you, please advice me how to do, excactly - as you can read in the home theatre site comments, there might be some confustion how to do it correctly.
Old 29th November 2017
  #212
Gear Guru
Cal

Quite a broad topic in itself. Worth remembering that this all started using the Mic in a Radio Shack SPL meter. An utter POS. Cheap half decent mics became available, but the response of some, Behringer, is extremely varied, while others, the UMIK-1 seems to have only slight variation from one mic to the next. Then there is the quality of the Cal Files. There is some thread here where we got into it a bit and found quite a difference between the UMIK and some other, both using their Cal files. Can't remember further detail, but I will say that a UMIK here, using it's Cal file which has quite small corrections, creates measurements which are extremely close, identical really, to a Bruel and Kjaer.


Quote:
1. Is the mic calibration just more or less useless fine tuning in the environmet, where there are even bigger uncontrollable sources of errors?
The Mic Cal is done in some sort of Lab or otherwise controlled environment.

Quote:
2. The MM1 comes with a individual mic response graph - isn´t it enough, that I just take in to consideration that curve, i.e. the deviation of that individual mic to the absolutely flat response, when drawing the conclusions after the room measurement?. E.g. if there is a notch in mic curve in 1 kHz, I know that a similar notch in the REW results depend (partly) for the mic error?
Is there really any need for the mic calibration, in this type of measurement?
If the mic is pretty flat, as one would expect from a German manufacturer, there will be little difference between using a Cal File and not.

Quote:
3. However, is the MM1 calibration is recommended by you, please advice me how to do, excactly - as you can read in the home theatre site comments, there might be some confustion how to do it correctly.
I don't know that Mic, or the veracity of it's Cal File. With no data below 60Hz, and a pretty flat published or individual response, I wouldn't bother with the Cal.

DD
Old 29th November 2017
  #213
Lives for gear
 

Calibration of Beyerdyamic MM1

Thank you for commenting - you last centence has being so far my conclusion, too. I just wonder, why so much hassle for this, if its more or less meaningless.
Old 29th November 2017
  #214
Gear Guru
Variables

Things have changed a lot gradually over a long time. The early Behringers and various out Mics appeared to not differ much. Ethan Winer published a comparison which demonstrated this. But later Behringers varied spectacularly. Lately we have seen 1-2dB variations between different brands of mic, USING their individual Cals. This is of no consequence when treating a room. But when going for a Target House Curve, such variations if they are over a large bandwidth, are enormous.
I can only recommend what I know. Without Cal Files....B&K! DPA 4060/90 series.
With Cal File, UMIK-1. The FR of the UMIK seems uncannily good but the absolute level was off by the same 1.8dB in two samples here.
That said I am sure your mic will be fine. Ultimately I tweak my Target Curves by ear. But strangely always end up very close to or exactly on the old Bruel and Kjaer Curve.


DD
Old 28th August 2018
  #215
Here for the gear
Hi Dan, ok I will do now, thank you
Old 6th September 2018
  #216
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Sounds good, i have to see if my USB mic from omnimic is capable to work with REW.

I recently had the opportunity to try the Dayton OmnimicV2 with REW5.

Having plugged the OmnimicV2 into the PC and then starting up REW5, the OmnimicV2 was automatically detected and configured by REW5. I did not make any project kind of measurements but it all seemed to be working fine. Lets hear it for Bill Waslo the developer.

I have had Bill Waslo's LAud for over 20 years and I approve this message.
Old 27th September 2018
  #217
Gear Nut
 

Hello,

Can somone tell me if the UMIK-1 is still the recommended MIC to use with REW under MAC OS?

thanks
Old 27th September 2018
  #218
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neopl View Post
Hello,

Can somone tell me if the UMIK-1 is still the recommended MIC to use with REW under MAC OS?

thanks
Absolutely! YES!! It works across platforms and each one comes with a cal file.

Highly recommended.
Cheers,
John
Old 27th September 2018
  #219
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
Absolutely! YES!! It works across platforms and each one comes with a cal file.

Highly recommended.
Cheers,
John
That's great. Thank you. This is the one i decided to get, hoping to finally figure out what is wrong with my room.
Old 8th June 2019
  #220
Maybe I'm just too stupid, so sorry for that question:
If I want to measure my tracking room, where do I place the speaker and the mic?
Do I place the speaker in a position where for example a drumset might be and the mic mid in the room?
Thanks for your answers
Old 8th June 2019
  #221
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Lob View Post
...If I want to measure my tracking room, where do I place the speaker and the mic?
Do I place the speaker in a position where for example a drumset might be and the mic mid in the room?
measuring is always about a dut (device under test: mostly speakers in our case) and the mic in a specific position (listening position in our case), it's not about getting results on absolute terms (which would apply to all instruments positioned throughout the tracking room) so i fear you cannot get what you're looking for.

you could try putting a powerful pa speaker and a subwoofer in the position of where you intend setting up the drums, feed it with pink noise and output roughly the same level which the drums will produce; aim the measurement mic at the top/sub stack, distance doesn't matter much/depends a bit on the size of your tracking room but going closer than 1m is not a good idea.

not sure whether such a measurement will give you much valuable information though...
Old 8th June 2019
  #222
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Lob View Post
Maybe I'm just too stupid, so sorry for that question:
If I want to measure my tracking room, where do I place the speaker and the mic?
Do I place the speaker in a position where for example a drumset might be and the mic mid in the room?
Thanks for your answers
A tracking room is 'measured' by Recording instruments and voices. Most Tracking spaces are designed to provide a few different sonic options for different instruments. This is accomplished with instrument placement and microphone placement. That's really all there is to it.
Cheers,
John
Old 8th June 2019
  #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Lob View Post
Maybe I'm just too stupid, so sorry for that question:
If I want to measure my tracking room, where do I place the speaker and the mic?
Do I place the speaker in a position where for example a drumset might be and the mic mid in the room?
Thanks for your answers
Great question actually, tracking room are evaluated mostly by ears.
Why not place a source and measure it? to see if there is build up, weird mids resonance, I guess it could be interesting in addition to actually demo tracking in it.

a good speaker + sub and hear/measure what it sounds like is a good idea.
Old 7th August 2019
  #224
Here for the gear
 
PJAcoustics's Avatar
 

What a comprehensive history you've written there, don't mind it!

Thanks
Old 7th August 2019
  #225
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Lob View Post
Maybe I'm just too stupid, so sorry for that question:
If I want to measure my tracking room, where do I place the speaker and the mic?
Do I place the speaker in a position where for example a drumset might be and the mic mid in the room?
Thanks for your answers
What do you want to measure? I mean, are you interested in T60, or in certain discreet reflections, or?
Old 28th August 2019
  #226
Here for the gear
 

The link to Altiverb's IR explanation is broken.

The link in this sticky to Altiverb's video of IR explanation is broken. Is this the correct video:

https://youtu.be/UAKuMLu5Dus

By the way, this thread is REALLY HELPFUL !

Thank you Dan
Old 28th August 2019
  #227
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusPerron View Post
The link in this sticky to Altiverb's video of IR explanation is broken. Is this the correct video:

https://youtu.be/UAKuMLu5Dus

By the way, this thread is REALLY HELPFUL !

Thank you Dan
thx for the update!



(dan is no longer to be found here since about a year ago...)
Old 1 week ago
  #228
Here for the gear
 

awesome. i learned alot just wish i got to see the graphs/diagrams before they got taken down
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