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Measuring Room Acoustics
Old 17th February 2016
  #151
Thank you very much for your insights sir, I think I'm going to mess around a bit and listen if I can get some change in sound. The Monitors are close to the frontwall. I have a pair of Auratones, and some kind of low midprice monitors that aren't really that high-end tbh.

I'm thinking of getting a pair Adam AX7, or Eve Sc207s. Might these speakers be too big for a smaller room (I'm hoping not to buy a subwoofer at the moment) ?
Old 17th February 2016
  #152
Gear Guru
Topic

@ Space , bigger monitors will allow you to hear more bass leading to less bass heavy mixes. Don't be confused by Internet and Hi Fi 'Noise'.
Those speakers are IMO too small to 'Monitor'. I require to hear 30Hz.
Most of these issues have been discussed at length on this forum. The search function is better than Googling. Let's stick to Measuring in this thread.
DD
Old 18th February 2016
  #153
Got it! Thank you! Sorry for hi-jackning not really the intention here.
Old 19th February 2016
  #154
Gear Guru
OT

No worries at all. Discussing other stuff in this thread perhaps brings attention to it. But better to steer back to Topic, otherwise it would become too big. A lot of stuff has been discussed over time here on GS. There is a wealth of good info.
e.g. The Q4Avare thread and others. Basically anything I started......LOL
DD
Old 13th March 2016
  #155
Lives for gear
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Im setting up my old Hometheater equipment in a new house. Subs are the first to be setup. Where would you start ? I would just put one sub at the listening position and walk around the room with my mic in hand and look for the location with the fullest and smoothes response using OmniMic, then switch the sub to the location where it measured best. Presuming my basstraps work as designed, would you look to see if the decay is smooth. How many -db per milsecond is acceptable as to decay time.

I guess im asking what do you start with
Old 13th March 2016
  #156
Gear Guru
OT

Probably best to study in that reference sticky kg. Then perhaps start a thread if you have something unusual at hand.
https://www.google.ie/search?client=...OkH8TMOvbFuvAH
DD
Old 20th April 2016
  #157
sot
Here for the gear
Smile Measuring my Room

Hi all

I hope this is the right place to ask this question. I am trying to figure it out asking from different forums.

I recently acoustically treated my room and measured it with fuzz measure - focal CMS 50 speakers

Just wondering if anyone has any opinion about the data and if there is room for further improvement.
I am trying to figure it out asking from different forums.

many thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Measuring Room Acoustics-f-r-testing-g-np-after-bt-celling-.png   Measuring Room Acoustics-f-r-testing-g-np-after-bt-celling-1-3.png   Measuring Room Acoustics-f-r-testing-g-np-after-bt-celling-waterfall.png  
Attached Files
Old 20th April 2016
  #158
Gear Guru
New Thread

Best to focus your question in a new thread. Include details of the room.

Quote:
We see many graphs posted with the question, ‘how does my room look’. The answer is ‘wrong question’ or ‘squiggly’. These are tools, not room doctors.
DD
Old 11th June 2016
  #159
Here for the gear
 

Tell me I did this right...

Hey all, thanks for any thoughts on this...

Bedroom studio is 14x10x8. After experimenting with treatments, I got to this point with REW.

Running Focal CMS40s.

I imagine adding a sub is going to wreak havoc, so I'm hoping this will do the trick.

Am I in the ballpark here?

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Measuring Room Acoustics-4-4-16-freq-1.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-4-4-16-freq-2.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-4-4-16-waterfall-1.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-4-4-16-waterfall-2.jpg  
Old 13th June 2016
  #160
Gear Guru
Right

Good work. But as a Mix/Mastering engineer I would absolutely require decent response down to 30Hz. I can't imagine that how or why a sub, carefully applied as you have done with the treatments etc, could be harmful. But this is not really the thread for such chat. I suggest you start a fresh thread asking something like, should I add a Sub?
DD
Old 20th June 2016
  #161
Here for the gear
 

Hi,
yesterday I got my first measurements of my room.
dimensions of the room: 6,75 x 5,4 x 2,8 m

the first reflections are not absorbed yet. In my opinion I need more bass traps. Please feel free to comment and advise for improvement..

thx
Damien
Attached Thumbnails
Measuring Room Acoustics-measurement-1.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-img_8310.jpg  
Old 21st June 2016
  #162
Gear Guru
Bass Traps

Hi Damien. We would need more data to make suggestions. We would look at the Waterfalls, ETC, Spectogram and so on. But that should be in another thread. I suggest you start one and post the actual measurement file, .mdat files can be posted directly unless they are too big. We only need L, R, L+R sweeps, not multiples.
DD
Old 25th June 2016
  #163
Deleted b69c0aa
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post

Things change, so HERE is a 'live' version of this article which is periodically tweaked.
Thanks for the primer...the live version is down...also the images seem to be gone on the initial post?
Old 26th June 2016
  #164
Gear Guru
Pain

I know, it's a pain. Websites were severely hacked and I am having trouble finding time to rebuild them.
DD
Old 27th June 2016
  #165
Deleted b69c0aa
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
I know, it's a pain. Websites were severely hacked and I am having trouble finding time to rebuild them.
DD
Bogus...no worries man.
Old 25th July 2016
  #166
Gear Guru
Pics Back

I have replaced the pics using Tinypic hosting, but can't make them full size.
I really wish the GS dev would address the very Picture Handling. It used to be so much better.
DD
Old 10th August 2016
  #167
Here for the gear
 

I've read all the DanDan post which is great and informative but I can't find how to check if my RFZ is setup correctly or not? How can I check early reflections using REW? I'm interesting in some graph first 15ms after direct sound to see If I have any reflections in this time window and if this reflections are at least 10 dB below the level of the direct sound. This 15 ms and 10 dB is from EBU norm about early reflections. Is this possible to check this with REW?
Old 10th August 2016
  #168
Gear Guru
ETC

The ETC graph will show the level of your reflections.
DD
Old 21st August 2016
  #169
i added left and right, I guess the lows cancel each each other at some point
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 25th August 2016
  #170
Here for the gear
 
maksitto's Avatar
 

My room 46 m2

Hi folks!
Now i'm buildinf control room.
My room's dimensions : Length - 8 m, Width - 5m, Hight - 3 m.
What I've built :
- 4 superchunks in trihedral corners from floor to ceiling.
- 2 superchunks in dihedral corners (wall - ceiling). On the front and rear walls.
Also I have 3 ceilng clouds above the mixer's head.
Broadband absorbers in the first reflection points and along the walls.

I don't know what to do next...
I have a room's mod on 62 Hz. Broadband don't give me a solution of this problem.
Also my frequency response have big nulls. How to get rid of this?
I would be happy to see any comments and suggestions!
Attached Thumbnails
Measuring Room Acoustics-20_waterfall_50-200.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-20_waterfall_50-1000.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-achkh.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-rt60.jpg   Measuring Room Acoustics-eey7prjdzyi.jpg  

Old 25th August 2016
  #171
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jim1961's Avatar
 

I recommend having more than one source for the bass. While treatment helps, spreading out the bass sources by adding multiple subs can do wonders for flattening out the bass response.
Old 26th August 2016
  #172
Here for the gear
 
maksitto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1961 View Post
I recommend having more than one source for the bass. While treatment helps, spreading out the bass sources by adding multiple subs can do wonders for flattening out the bass response.
i have no sub at all. Only monitors with 5'' driver.
I think if i add some sub in my room i'm just gonna increase 62 Hz mod!
Old 26th August 2016
  #173
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1961 View Post
I recommend having more than one source for the bass. While treatment helps, spreading out the bass sources by adding multiple subs can do wonders for flattening out the bass response.
It CAN help, but only AFTER good, complete treatment with bass trapping! But never as a replacement...

Quote:
Originally Posted by maksitto View Post
i have no sub at all. Only monitors with 5'' driver.
I think if i add some sub in my room i'm just gonna increase 62 Hz mod!
Treatment FIRST. There are no shortcuts to a good sounding room.
Most of our excellent rooms use one sub. Many use no sub. Only a few, like our mastering rooms and dubbing stages will use more than one sub.

If trapping doesn't help, it's because the room boundaries are less than optimal. It is important to begin with a mode calculator.. If it shows problems, expect difficulties and deal with it.
The only sure way to fix coincident modes is to move a boundary. Etc., etc., etc.

You can test and trap, test and trap until you're blue in the face and all your money is gone and you've grown too old to enjoy the music....

Do music guys. It's about love, not perfection. Then once you hone your skills and get a lot of music done, and hopefully have some success, you can build, from the ground up, a 'perfect' mix room. (let a pro design it for you) believe me, it's a LOT cheaper.

I hope this is helpful.

As I've said before, we fully treat 5 of the six room surfaces... For a critical listening room.

Cheers,
John
Old 26th August 2016
  #174
Lives for gear
 
jim1961's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
As I've said before, we fully treat 5 of the six room surfaces... For a critical listening room.

Cheers,
John
I assume the floor is the omitted surface?

Old 26th August 2016
  #175
Lives for gear
 
jhbrandt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1961 View Post
I assume the floor is the omitted surface?



Yes! that's the one!
Cheers,
John
Old 26th August 2016
  #176
Here for the gear
 
maksitto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhbrandt View Post
It CAN help, but only AFTER good, complete treatment with bass trapping! But never as a replacement...


Treatment FIRST. There are no shortcuts to a good sounding room.
Most of our excellent rooms use one sub. Many use no sub. Only a few, like our mastering rooms and dubbing stages will use more than one sub.

If trapping doesn't help, it's because the room boundaries are less than optimal. It is important to begin with a mode calculator.. If it shows problems, expect difficulties and deal with it.
The only sure way to fix coincident modes is to move a boundary. Etc., etc., etc.

You can test and trap, test and trap until you're blue in the face and all your money is gone and you've grown too old to enjoy the music....

Do music guys. It's about love, not perfection. Then once you hone your skills and get a lot of music done, and hopefully have some success, you can build, from the ground up, a 'perfect' mix room. (let a pro design it for you) believe me, it's a LOT cheaper.

I hope this is helpful.

As I've said before, we fully treat 5 of the six room surfaces... For a critical listening room.

Cheers,
John
John, I really appreciate what you said!I agree with you. We spending our time and our money and our life . And what will be in the end... I guess not perfect room anyway.
Unfortunately i have no opportunity to work in my room now, because it's building. I gotta finish construction .
Old 10th September 2016
  #177
Here for the gear
 

I know this is a very old post at this point, but im new here and want to thank Dandan for this extremely thoughtful and helpful writeup.
Old 14th September 2016
  #178
Gear Guru
Cool

Thanks for the kind words, and you are welcome. Reminds me it is due a review some tweaks probably....
DD
Old 23rd September 2016
  #179
Lives for gear
 
JayTee4303's Avatar
Great thread, with a very comprehensive overview at the beginning, thanks, Dan.

I've just completed a five year studio build and very close to completing a one year live rig build. I'm about to dive into the voodoo of measurement and have a few questions.

One, what's the consensus on the dbx RTA-M Measurement Mic for this application? We picked one up as recommended in the manual for the live rig's Driverack PA2. Will it suffice for control room and vocal booth measurement?

Two, vocal booth treatment...we're looking to first identify any major problems, second, improve performer head space, and third improve the quality and mixability of the captures. Do we approach this like control room measurement, listening room measurement, or something different? I'm guessing a control/mix room wants to be flat, a listening room wants a flattering response, and a vocal booth want to be...both?

Third, I'm in the final stages of building three identical laptops for the live rig. Each can drive the DJ desk and hosts the full music collection, and each can also host a pad controller and has a large collection of MIDI files to run the DMX light show. The idea is that any of the three can be the primary DJ computer, or primary lights, or a backup for either, and...we can split the rig and run two seperate shows on any given day.

The Driverack has internal RTA, with room correction, anti-feedback, and speaker timing capabilities. Is there a benefit to adding REW to each build? I suspect the Driverack is set up to quickly measure and help correct for gross venue deficiencies, where the depth of REW is more suitable for longer term processes of measurement and refining fixed locations.

I realize these may not be simple answers, and wish to avoid exposure to widely debunked information, so links to well accepted and time tested information, in liu of specific answers are welcome.
Old 25th September 2016
  #180
Gear Guru
Answers

Quote:
One, what's the consensus on the dbx RTA-M Measurement Mic for this application? We picked one up as recommended in the manual for the live rig's Driverack PA2. Will it suffice for control room and vocal booth measurement?
I am sure it will be fine. Look at the specs to see if it has a HF boost on axis, in which case, correct that with a Cal File or point it as the manufacturer suggests, i.e. probably upwards or nearly, e.g. 70-90 degrees.

The vocal booth has the same desires as the listening zone. A Zone Without Early Reflections. A small powered speaker on a stand would be very useful for taking measurements simulating a singer.

REW is welcome to any party.

DD
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