The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
live-room minimum volume
Old 18th November 2009
  #1
live-room minimum volume

Hi guys,

I found some threads here about minimum control room volume, but my question is: What is the minimum volume for a decent live-room??

This is my plan:
Recording small bands and solo artists

Im limited to a maximum dimension of 8 x 5 x 3 meter room (outside measures).

in mtr: 8 x 5 x 3 meter outside measure of the building and 7,2 x 4,2 x 2,75 meter inside (effective space)
in feet: 26,2 x 16,2 x 9,8 outside measures of the building and 23,6 x 13,8 x 9,02 feet inside (effective space)

Is it wise to make this a live-room only? Or.. would there be still some space to fit a tracking-room in there as well??

I certainly do not want to compromise much on the acoustic abilities of my live-room.. sinse this would be the room where all the stuff is going to be recorded and i want a decent base to start with.

On the other hand it would be so much more practical to have a tracking/control room AND a live-room in the same building for all obivous reasons.

So, what would be too small for a live room.. and what would be adequate (or how ever u may write that, sorry about the poor english)

Can u please shoot some experience here about little recording rooms?

What i would love to hear is ..hey if u make the building half a meter wider then u can fit in a "golden ratio" live-room with enough volume AND leaves u a few meter to fit urself behind a desk and have a "control room".

What im afraid i will hear is...hey the 8 x 5 x 3 meter building is a meter too small for a "decent" live-room only (please not here to discuss the word decent).

Any i'd love to hear ALL ur answers

Thx,

Lemon

P.s. room treadment is a different phase and i found much info on that thx Gearslutz
Old 18th November 2009
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
I think with a room that size I would make it one room for mixing and recording. thumbsup
Old 18th November 2009
  #3
Are u serious or are u just looking for a kiss from me??
Old 18th November 2009
  #4
by the way..i hope u mean..big enough for one recording room and one control/listening room??

I can do the mixing in the live-room after i recorded, no problem. I mean.. do i have to sacrifice another room in the house to have my quite listening spot when recording, or would the size of the 8 x 5 x 3 be adequate to fit a "control room" in there without compromising too much on the acoustic aspects of the live-room??
Old 19th November 2009
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
What I am saying is record and mix in the same room. Is that possible? The bigger the room the better for both recording and mixing.
Old 19th November 2009
  #6
That IS an option since im using a pretty portable setup (RME gear in a portable 19 inch rack).

What i can do is track with my laptop and mix in the live room after the band is gone. BUT.. i still do need a place to sit where i can track.. and listen for phase problem/ weird errors and stuff so i do think i need a silent room to sit in when tracking... or..am i missing something?
Old 19th November 2009
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
It is always a good thing to have that, but if you split up the room it really is going to get small. I was trying to give you the best of 2 worlds.
Old 19th November 2009
  #8
Here for the gear
 

suprisingly im into the same plan (Rme laptop etc..) and i can see why it glenn's suggestion is the best of both worlds but...

you cannot track a decent drum session without a control room with a pair of monitors.

i was thinking maybe a closed type high quality pair of headphones with that plugin from redline which simulates the phenomenon of listening to stereo speakers might do the trick but i guess its a long shot...

is there anyone who has any experience on 2ual purpose room and tracking drums? any help would be highly appreciated.
Old 19th November 2009
  #9
Hi Amadeo, thats exactly my point... but i'd love to hear from and expert on what level i will be compromising the acoustics of my possible live room if im making a small control room inthere as well with the dimensions im building...

In other words...what is the minimum volume for a decent sounding room
Old 19th November 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
PaulP's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeo1912 View Post
you cannot track a decent drum session without a control room with a pair of monitors.
I can see the usefulness of having a control room which permits hearing the
session through monitors, but in this particular situation is it likely that a
control room in a second room could be sufficiently isolated to permit proper
hearing of the monitors ? If the drums are just on the other side of the wall
it seems to me that it would be very difficult to isolate them from the control
room. Maybe not impossible, but complicated and expensive.

Paul P
Old 19th November 2009
  #11
im not using wood for seperating the two room.. my plan was to seperate with two brick walls (and aprox 20cm of air inbetween). Probably not 0db...but better then being forced to use cans...IMHO

Quote:
I can see the usefulness of having a control room which permits hearing the
session through monitors, but in this particular situation is it likely that a
control room in a second room could be sufficiently isolated to permit proper
hearing of the monitors ? If the drums are just on the other side of the wall
it seems to me that it would be very difficult to isolate them from the control
room. Maybe not impossible, but complicated and expensive.
Old 19th November 2009
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeo1912 View Post
you cannot track a decent drum session without a control room with a pair of monitors.
I know folks who can't get a decent drum sound with a good drummer, kit, room AND gear at the same time... so it's not a guarantee.

Granted, a separate tracking and control room make tracking good sounding drums a lot easier, but it's not the only way.

I have historically seen live room numbers tossed around from 1500 cu. ft. (42 cu. m.) to anything over 3000 cu. ft. (>85 cu. m.) as being nominal to optimal air volumes for drums to sound good... with bigger being more often citing as being desirable.

My experience as a drummer/percussionist is >3000 cu. ft. is the way to go.

That being said, your available space is just about right to use the whole thing as a one room studio.

I'm afraid that once the space got chopped into a too small area for tracking, or too small of an area for a control room... your net result will be two rooms that suk, compared to what you could have in a one room situation.

Wes Lechot and Ethan co-wrote an article for Mix that you should read... and hopefully Ethan can pop in and give you some insight as well.

Just my humble $.02 worth....
Old 19th November 2009
  #13
@xaMdaM
Quote:
I'm afraid that once the space got chopped into a too small area for tracking, or too small of an area for a control room... your net result will be two rooms that suk, compared to what you could have in a one room situation.
Yeah i was kinda afraid of that to! :( sad to hear but i prefer to keep it realistic.

I just hope my wife wouldn't mind if i sit in the kitchen with all my cables now and then
Quote:
Wes Lechot and Ethan co-wrote an article for Mix that you should read... and hopefully Ethan can pop in and give you some insight as well.
Do u have a bit more info...or a link maybe??
Old 19th November 2009
  #14
Ethan's got it on his site... @ Real Traps... RealTraps - Home
Old 21st November 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Disjointed's Avatar
 

crazylemon,

I currently mix and record in a ~4500sq' room (all one room).

It's not so bad, but it is hard to maintain the balance between live room and mixing environment. (acoustically)

The highlights of one room:
-great live space
-better connection to performers
-easy one man operation

The drawbacks of one room:
-treating for a proper mix space can be difficult
-'live' monitoring can be difficult even with good iso cans
- i cant take a nap at my console while some crappy band records


all in all, the one room setup is ok, and you can get some good work done,
but I am planning on adding a separate mix room, off of the main room in the future.
I definitely would not want to cut into the space of my large room, for acoustical reasons, and the fact that recording a band 'live' with semi-isolated amps takes all the space i have.
If I were you i'd start with the large room and work from there.

gl!
Old 25th November 2009
  #16
Hey Disjointed, thx a lot maan! Some personal experience just what i needed

Made me reconsider the one room option...i didn't actually wanna think about it too much, but i think you are right with not wanting to cut in your "large" room.

Thanks a lot for your input!
Old 26th November 2009
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
bakerman's Avatar
 

yeah thanks guys its all helpful for me too as was contemplating possible room split. My room (record/mix) is 9m (L) x 6m (W) x 4m (H).

Currently its all carpeted, what are your thoughts on wooden floor with rugs to add some additional space when tracking drums?
Old 26th November 2009
  #18
I have made some "practise-rooms" with my former bands (waaay before i found this forum), we made some "carpeted" rooms to.
One thing that still sticks to me is the dull/"dead" sound.

If u want my advise, if u don't have them already: look for bass-traps (or make a pair yourself.
And before you invest on expnsive flooring. Try to cover your floor sometime with "garbage" wood (i donno the english name). U know, the cabinet that the neighbours threw away.... take a few plates place them on the floor and..listen.
If you get the desired effect, you probably want ur wooden floor. If this doesn't do it for you, then im afraid a wooden floor won't do any magic for you.

Thats is how i would do it, hope it's any use for you
Old 26th November 2009
  #19
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
from what i have read, you need a room with about 6000 cu ft to acheive a decent live room natural reverb.
Old 27th November 2009
  #20
Gear Nut
solution 4 recording drums while monitoring in the same room

hey - it's not ideal but if you need to mic up and record drums
(or anything) with no sep. control room:

- do your best estimate at mic placement(s)

- record 20 seconds of SLOW RELEVANT playing

- switch to playback mode (I.E. cut the mics) and listen thru MONITORS

- adjust placements as needed; repeat all this til youre happy.
it sounds like a pain but it's not really as slow as you think.

ALSO, even if you have a sep. control room, you may very well have
some lo-end bleed coming thru your wall. this gives you the -illusion-
that your kick sounds (etc) are fatter than they really are.
you might want to use this method to alleviate such probs.

cheers - jon
Old 15th December 2009
  #21
Great tip Thx a lot Jontodd
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear