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Building studio in 500 sq. ft. Warehouse space Studio Monitors
Old 9th August 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 

Building studio in 500 sq. ft. Warehouse space

Hey folks! Brand new here and love the place already. I am building a studio in a warehouse space with ~20' high ceilings. The general floor plan is attached to this post.

The desk will be where I do all my mixing, and right in front of the desk will be the window in the wall to view the recording space/live room.

I will be building double walls all around the live room (as seen in the top right of the picture). The right hand side wall of the live room will be built in front of an existing, structural wall of the warehouse. The live room wall at the bottom of the picture is concrete so I don't think I will need to do any more isolation for this wall (or should I?). I'm pretty sure the walls should have an STC of ~58.

I am still working on a design for the ceiling, any suggestions? Obviously I want to decouple the live room from everything else, so I was thinking of building decoupled ceilings above the live room and the left half of the warehouse space (mixing area/lounge and entrance hallway).

I know it is vague but -- what do y'all think? Acoustic suggestions? Soundproofing/isolation suggestions?

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Attached Thumbnails
Building studio in 500 sq. ft. Warehouse space-studio_design_4.jpg  
Old 9th August 2009
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

Acoustically that is a pretty bad design. Very long and narrow, with the speakers firing the short way across the room. In all honesty you'd do much better to have a single room where you record and mix. Is this a project studio for your own use, or a commercial venture where you'll record others for money?

Much more here:

Graphical Mode Calculator
How to set up a room

--Ethan
Old 9th August 2009
  #3
Gear Head
 

This is a commercial venture. I figured 10 ft wasn't too short of a width for the mixing room. The wall spanning the center of the space is not currently built, it is currently only half the length (see picture). Any ideas for a better design?

Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
Building studio in 500 sq. ft. Warehouse space-studio_design_orig.jpg  
Old 9th August 2009
  #4
Gear Head
 

I just ran a few calculations in that ModeCalc app (which is awesome!) and found that if I make the ceiling height 12 ft, and make the length only 20 ft, then I can satisfy the 1:1.5:2.5 ratio (using W:H:L). I would assume that it doesn't matter that my height is greater than my width in the recording space, except that I may have to raise the instruments off of the floor a bit.

Will this work?
Old 10th August 2009
  #5
Gear Head
 

I did a redesign on the studio, check it out.

I think this will work much better.

Any thoughts?
Attached Thumbnails
Building studio in 500 sq. ft. Warehouse space-studio_design_6.jpg  
Old 10th August 2009
  #6
Gear Addict
 

I don't necessarily subscribe completely to doing acoustics by numbers, but I do find the formulas very helpful and important.

I would try to design something with shapes like I added below.

your main issue is the entrance door and the bathroom. Can the bathroom be re-located to the front? Then you do entrance/lounge. Bathroom on the right top.

Then control and live room?


Your problem is that you are just creating boxes and I can tell you with experience that non-linear rooms with proper treatments are going to sound way better than square ones with treatments.

I'm sure Ethan and others will agree with me to an extent here.

Please keep in mind that I didn't do any calculations with that pic, just to give you a visual idea of what to do.

EDIT: In addition, I'd put the desk against that diagnal wall and either bow the right side, or angle it a bit too.
Attached Thumbnails
Building studio in 500 sq. ft. Warehouse space-studio_design_4-.jpg  
Old 10th August 2009
  #7
Gear Head
 

Wouldn't putting in a diagonal wall like that cause non-symmetry in the mixing room though? I know that parallel walls cause reverberation and have more highly accentuated modes than rooms without parallel walls, but at least I can treat those modes with acoustic treatment. With a non-symmetric mixing room, I may be SOL in finding a space to listen without getting strange stereo effects.

In terms of your other question, I'm pretty sure I'm stuck with the bathroom in that back corner. I would have to reroute the plumbing to change it, and I think that's a project I don't even want to attempt.
Old 10th August 2009
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Wouldn't putting in a diagonal wall like that cause non-symmetry in the mixing room though? I know that parallel walls cause reverberation and have more highly accentuated modes than rooms without parallel walls, but at least I can treat those modes with acoustic treatment. With a non-symmetric mixing room, I may be SOL in finding a space to listen without getting strange stereo effects.
Yes you are right. BTW I can't seem to get your file to download (to make larger) for me so I really can't comment on your second diagram. But from the small picture it looks much better.
Old 10th August 2009
  #9
Gear Head
 

Glenn, I'll try posting the picture again. Thanks for your response.

I have a question about the double walls. If you look at the bottom of the picture, you'll note that the wall on the right extends all the way to the back wall and is directly connected to it. This back wall is made of concrete and continues to the neighboring property (the property I'm trying to isolate sound to/from). The right wall will be built in front of a preexisting stud wall (thus the double wall). The question is -- can I directly connect this new wall to the back concrete wall? Or should I worry about sound transmission through the concrete to the neighboring property? Should I use some sort of damping material to connect the new stud wall to the back concrete wall?
Old 10th August 2009
  #10
Gear Head
 

Repost of picture.
Attached Thumbnails
Building studio in 500 sq. ft. Warehouse space-studio_design_6_2.jpg  
Old 10th August 2009
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Lightbulb

^^^ Yes, that's much better.
Old 10th August 2009
  #12
Gear Head
 

Thanks for your response, Ethan. I've been reading your online material pretty religiously.
Old 10th August 2009
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtyMics View Post
Glenn, I'll try posting the picture again. Thanks for your response.

I have a question about the double walls. If you look at the bottom of the picture, you'll note that the wall on the right extends all the way to the back wall and is directly connected to it. This back wall is made of concrete and continues to the neighboring property (the property I'm trying to isolate sound to/from). The right wall will be built in front of a preexisting stud wall (thus the double wall). The question is -- can I directly connect this new wall to the back concrete wall? Or should I worry about sound transmission through the concrete to the neighboring property? Should I use some sort of damping material to connect the new stud wall to the back concrete wall?

Upon second thought, I guess this is kind of a stupid question. The sound has direct access to the concrete wall over the entire span not covered by the new gypsum wall, so isolating the gypsum wall from the concrete wall doesn't really make much sense.

Sorry for thinking out loud here on this forum, but it really is helping me out.
Old 10th August 2009
  #14
Gear Head
 

Next question that I might end up answering myself:

The floors are all concrete, laid on the building foundation (nothing but ground below me)-- should I consider floating the floors of my live room, or is it unnecessary?
Old 10th August 2009
  #15
Gear Head
 

Ok. So I think my design has a fatal flaw -- three leaf systems. All of the side walls in the diagram would consist of:

1 sheet gypsum, layer of GG, 1 sheet gypsum, 2x4 stud, fiberglass insulation

These would be built in front of the already existing gypsum walls, which most likely are just gypsum-stud-gypsum.

does this constitute a 3 leaf system? Am I screwed?

Any response is appreciated, I'm kind of in a bind here.


Thanks.
Old 10th August 2009
  #16
Gear Head
 

Think I've got it (only took me about 2 minutes...) I'll just add another sheet of gypsum to the back of the walls I'm adding. That'll make it a 4 leaf system, which I'm pretty sure isn't as bad.
Old 11th August 2009
  #17
Gear Head
 

So I think I've decided that I need to use a floating floor. But with one answer, comes another question -- should I put the walls on top of the floating floor or should I build the floating floor inside of the walls, with the floor not rigidly connected to the walls?
Old 11th August 2009
  #18
Gear Head
 

Nevermind -- I think I won't be floating a floor after all.

"Rod Gervais, forum member and author of Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros, writes about this in his book. On this forum he recently wrote:

Rod Gervais wrote:
Except for in very weird cases (i.e.: highly hydraulic earths with high water content - OR the inverse of that - both you and a neighbor have your foundations pinned to the same run of bedrock) the amount of transmission you receive in the upper level of the home or outside of the house - is VERY small coming from this slab. It just takes too much energy to move it that much....

It's the airborne sound that transmits through the deck - deck assembly, windows, doors, ducts, pipes, holes, etc., etc., etc. that cause 99% of your problems.

For existing slab on grade I am a firm advocate of leave it alone. (Source)"

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • View topic - Is a Floating Floor Right For You? Answer: Probably NOT.



I hope you are all having fun watching this progression
Old 11th August 2009
  #19
Gear Head
 

Another question, hopefully someone is still reading this --

Should I worry about sound flanking through the back concrete wall that is shared with my neighbor? It's most likely 8" thick concrete blocks.


Thanks for your help, Gearslutz.
Old 11th August 2009
  #20
Lives for gear
 
David-Morpheus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtyMics View Post
So I think I've decided that I need to use a floating floor. But with one answer, comes another question -- should I put the walls on top of the floating floor or should I build the floating floor inside of the walls, with the floor not rigidly connected to the walls?
You need to define closer what you'll mean by floating floors. It can be done in many ways and it can as well add significantly to the STC values of your room as well it can screw it up if not done right. If you have the option and budget a concrete floating floor is the best option, as well as the most expensive one. I payed recently nearly 3000 EUR for just the dampening material (KIP pads from kinetics) for 2 rooms (60 sq meters) + the cost for OSB boards, concrete, insulation and labour ....

Seeing the two threads you have just opened I would suggest buying some books (especially the one by Rod Gervais) and do some more research. You lack all the basics - suggested wrong room shapes, wrong wall systems, didn't even consideres the room rations in the drawings and so on and so on.

Building a studio is an extremly complex thing, I was doing preparation work for almost 2 YEARS untill I started the build this year.
Old 11th August 2009
  #21
Gear Head
 

With all due respect, Morpheuz, learning the basics is why I'm here. I am a Mechanical engineer by education, and am familiar with the complex mathematics associated with Acoustics and Vibrations (I admit, I should've known better than to design a space such as I did in the first draft). I've got quite a few books on the subject, but one thing the books can't really give you is first hand knowledge. I don't have Rod's book, though I will be buying it soon.

I'm sure you will see that I've learned quite a bit over these past few days. I'm just looking for some guidance from people who've done it before.
Old 11th August 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 
David-Morpheus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtyMics View Post
With all due respect, Morpheuz, learning the basics is why I'm here. I am a Mechanical engineer by education, and am familiar with the complex mathematics associated with Acoustics and Vibrations (I admit, I should've known better than to design a space such as I did in the first draft). I've got quite a few books on the subject, but one thing the books can't really give you is first hand knowledge. I don't have Rod's book, though I will be buying it soon.

I'm sure you will see that I've learned quite a bit over these past few days. I'm just looking for some guidance from people who've done it before.
that's the reason why this and other forums exists. I didn't want to offend you in any way, just make sure you will plan and doublecheck everything because often there is no way back after a bad decision or if it is it costs huuuge money. I will be glad to help in any aspect of course

and good luck with the build
Old 11th August 2009
  #23
Gear Head
 

Thanks


Now, can you just give me the answer sheet to this section of the text book??


Hehe...If only it was that easy. Damned real life situations.
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